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Steam: Greenlight

steam greenlight

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Poll: Greenlight (93 member(s) have cast votes)

when we shall start presenting TDM on Steam Greenlight?

  1. Imediately, classified as the "concept". We will change that on "playable" after going standalone. We need to take advantage of the attention drawn to the greenlight. (23 votes [24.73%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 24.73%

  2. After going standalone. We dont want to present something that cant be playable at the moment (via Steam). (51 votes [54.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 54.84%

  3. Never. The competition is just too strong. (8 votes [8.60%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.60%

  4. Imediately, classified as the "playable" (DOOM 3 Steam version required). We need to take advantage of the attention drawn to the greenlight. (11 votes [11.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.83%

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#1 PPoe

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:11 AM

Hello, Ill post a discussion here, originaly between me and Tels. I will be glad to hear your opinion on this way of promotion:

Me:
Hello, I can take care about Steams greenlight.
I thing that first of all we should create a topic about it, to discuss whether the mod development team want this or not. (Private forums maybe?)
If we will decide to go for it, I can create Dark Mod profile in Steam greenlight. I can take care of this like as Nbohr1more is taking care about our TDM Moddb profile..

Tels:
It seems every other week there is someone who discovers TDM by googling for "thief mod" or "stealth gaming", so I think the added publicity from Steam can only help.
But not sure if we want this before v1.08 (or even v1.09).
Also, there is already a steam group, but I no longer have a steam account it seems, so I don't know much about it:
http://steamcommunit...ups/thedarkmod/

Me:
The thing is, greenlight is new now. That means a lot of attention. I assume that it will fade, so the sooner we enter, the better.
In Greenlight FAQ is written:

Can I post my game concept or early builds?
Absolutely! We encourage you to post information about your game as early in the development process as you are comfortable with. Greenlight will let you define whether you are posting your game as a concept/early build or as a playable game that is nearing completion.
you will probably get great feedback and a good start in building a community of fans around your game.
Can I update my entry after I've submitted my game?
Please do! We encourage you to update your presence in Steam as often as you like to keep your fans and potential customers involved in your development process.

So the only thing that interests me: Can we have the game for 0 cash? Where is the profit for Steam? I dont tning that they will be interested in something that wont bring them any profit. I will ask them on support.
After we will be fully standalone, we can open the game for public to download wia Steam. I dont thing it is a good idea to do so before going standalone, if I can tell. But still, the sooner we will start to propagate our mod, the better.

Tels:
FWIIW, i agree that the sooner the better, due to the Greenlight thing getting flooded rather soon with all sorts of games (free publicity if free for game authors, too).

Grayman:
I haven't used Steam in years and don't know anything about Greenlight, so I don't have an opinion on this.

Springheel:
I know nothing about Greenlight or Steam either. My main concern right now is focusing on getting 1.08 into the light of day.

Tels:
I now that 7upman and StiFU are admins of the Steam group, and I think Biker, too. Maybe contact these people?


What is your opinion? You can get more informations about Greenlight here:
http://steamcommunity.com/greenlight/

Edited by PPoe, 31 August 2012 - 12:24 PM.

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#2 Tels

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:47 AM

Just one small thing: TDM is playable via Steam already (if you buy D3 on steam, and then download TDM).

So I'd add another option to the poll:

Imediately, classified as the "playable". We need to take advantage of the attention drawn to the greenlight.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#3 Springheel

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:50 AM

Difficult to vote without knowing anything about Greenlight. What is it? What is the value of it? What kind of work does it entail?
TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps

#4 Tels

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 12:23 PM

So far I think it is just a place where developers (or anybody else for them?) can list their games, and then people (with a steam account) vote on them. When enough people on a game, Valve considers adding it to Steam.

So far it seems just a place to promote your game, or concept, and reach out to the entire Steam community (which is by no means small!). The biggest fear I have is we will be swamped by all the zombie mods and First Person Shooter games, anyway, but then, it doesn't cost us exactly anything to add ourselves to Greenlight.

You can think of it like "having a moddb page", except "on Steam".
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#5 Dunedain

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:08 PM

I think it should be added right away. Take advantage of the attention and excitement around a new thing like this. I didn't read down before voting and so voted to list it as concept, but if you can just download and play with the Steam version of Doom III and be up and running fast, then I think it can be listed as playable.

The mod is so well polished already, one of the best out there for any game, that it can easily be presented as is. Would be great to have the campaign of connected missions in place, but that will come in time. The main thing is to get it out there where lots of gamers can hear about it and see what's it all about. And when they try it and see how finely crafted it is, what a real Thief experience it really is, I think many will become fans themselves. And may well get some additional team members that have the skills to help with the mod, once they see how much they like it.

I mean the mod has been worked on for years and years now, I think it's ready for it's big debut to a large audience. =)

#6 PPoe

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:22 PM

I can do that, as soon as someone from the development team will acredit that. Ive wrote a bunch of question on Steam support (if the game can be for free, if there is some special work needed to make it running on steam, if we will have to pay something etc..), but still no responce.

Do we have TDM Logo in higher resolution than 445*289?

Edited by PPoe, 31 August 2012 - 01:25 PM.

He was sneeking silently in the night, moonlight was his enemy.
(Im not a native speaker, sorry for all miscleanous caused by my english..)

#7 Tels

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:32 PM

I think it should be added right away. Take advantage of the attention and excitement around a new thing like this. I didn't read down before voting and so voted to list it as concept, but if you can just download and play with the Steam version of Doom III and be up and running fast, then I think it can be listed as playable.


It should be possible to remove your vote and vote again (or so I think but I can't find the button to do that)

@PPoe: I don't think so.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#8 Springheel

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:40 PM

Do we have TDM Logo in higher resolution than 445*289?


How large do you need it?
TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps

#9 pusianka

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:47 PM

I looked at the competition and we have quite big chances in my humble opinion, we just need to point people to some of the best missions that we have and we have quite a few :).
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#10 Xarg

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:05 PM

Steam already offers many F2P (that's Free to Play) games, and has done for a while. What I'm not sure about is whether Steam gets a cut of any microtransactions that are how F2P stays alive, but there is certainly no up front demand for money, and Steam still hosts them.

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#11 PPoe

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:08 PM

You have to provide the main picture for your game on greenlight, so I think that TDM Logo is the best. But it have to be 512*512 minimal. I have resized the picture from the google picture search, but higher resolution will be better.

Edited by PPoe, 31 August 2012 - 02:11 PM.

He was sneeking silently in the night, moonlight was his enemy.
(Im not a native speaker, sorry for all miscleanous caused by my english..)

#12 Diego

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:09 PM

Any estimative on how long it takes to be approved? (if approved, of course)

What could happen if it gets approved and it needs D3 to run?

#13 PPoe

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:23 PM

What Ive read so far, it takes a lot of possitive votes and a long time (weeks minimal), but we can just guess. If we will be just the mod that still needs DOOM 3 to run, Im unsure what will happen. There are a lot of mods, but also a lot of posts on the forum that greenlight is not for mods etc.. Nothing clarifies wheter it is aprooved by Steam or not.

My suggestion is to present TDM as a standalone with "concept" label and in description will be a notice: If you dont want to wait, you can play already, visit www.thedarkmod.com for more info. Or something similar..
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He was sneeking silently in the night, moonlight was his enemy.
(Im not a native speaker, sorry for all miscleanous caused by my english..)

#14 Xarg

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:25 PM

PPoe beat me to the point, it could be a good advertisement point.

Standalone - coming soon!
Can't wait? - it's available as a mod for Doom3.

Would the revelation it's going to be standalone qualify it? It seemed like the blurb I read about Greenlight didn't specifically say it had to be playable now[/i]


Edit: As a qualifier for "playable now", I mean "as a game, not a mod for another game"

Edited by Xarg, 31 August 2012 - 02:26 PM.

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#15 PPoe

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:34 PM

Standalone - coming soon!
Can't wait? - it's available as a mod for Doom3.

Thats exactly what Ive tried to say..

Would the revelation it's going to be standalone qualify it? It seemed like the blurb I read about Greenlight didn't specifically say it had to be playable now

It specialy say that it dont need to be finihed: "We encourage you to post information about your game as early in the development process as you are comfortable with. Greenlight will let you define whether you are posting your game as a concept/early build or as a playable game that is nearing completion."
He was sneeking silently in the night, moonlight was his enemy.
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#16 Xarg

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:39 PM

That sounds like a go-ahead to me, or at least, there's no downside to doing it.

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#17 AngelWolf

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:47 PM

If we were to go that far, why not turn TDM into a commercial game? I've been reading a lot about the buisness side of games, and a book that inspired me recently was Masters of Doom. It's a non-fiction narrative about iD software and talks about how John Carmack and John Romero, a couple of college dropouts, created Wolfenstein 3D in their free time on computers they "borrowed" from their employer. They bypassed the regular retail channels by using the shareware model of giving away the first episode of a 6 episode game, and having people pay them directly for the remaining 6. They were making 90 cents to the dollar, and pulling in $100,000 a month. Doom made them millionaires.
So how many of you would like to do this full time? As I said in another post and as Dunedain said above me, The Dark Mod is a very polished game platform. FM's in this genre are unique because they can be self contained missions or full blown campaigns. Microtransactions are all around us now...we have cell phone apps selling for $3 to $20. Games like Lord of the Rings Online are free to play, but allow players to buy extra content. Movies are available on demand for $5. Most console games have DLC now. If a mission provides high entertainment value, why shouldn't we charge a small fee so we can develop those missions full time?
We have the technology to create a virtual video game studio, and it could be run as a worker's cooperative. So instead of working for the studio, everyone who contributes would be a co-owner and be paid a precentage based on asset usage. So the modellers, texture artists, sound engeneers, and voice actors would be paid a percentage for every mission that uses their work. The programmers would also get a share, as would those in charge of designing the promotional materials (trailers, GoogleAds, sending press releases about upcoming missions to media websites)
We've seen what this community is capable of creating in their free time for no pay...imagine what we could create if we were getting paid to work on it full time. And also imagine the kind of press we would get (and designers we would attract) if we also marketed the game as a complete entry point for new game designers to learn on and build a portfolio while getting paid a residual income?
I think the mod is ready the spotlight and you all deserve a reward for all this hard work. I don't think it would be too hard to get some venture capital from a publisher to help ease the transition to full time development of a game based entirely around DLC. It all comes down to how many people would be interested in creating some form of buisness structure. As for myself, I think I'm going to start writing the tutorials to cover every menu and feature of DR while you all talk amongst yourselves.
Taurus philosophy:
Give me a hammer and tell me I have 6 hours to break up a 2 inch thick layer of ice. As soon as you walk away I'm going to use some hot water and salt so I can take a nap for the remaining 5 and a half hours. Taureans hate wasting energy and if there's a more efficient way to do something they will find it.

#18 PPoe

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:50 PM

OK, what about the presentation video, is this one suitable: link? Looks amazing to me, sadly the footage is a bit old. Anone know better trailer video?
He was sneeking silently in the night, moonlight was his enemy.
(Im not a native speaker, sorry for all miscleanous caused by my english..)

#19 PPoe

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:57 PM

...


This was discussed before, many of the contributors arent working on the mod anymore, there are different mission autors, would it be still as funny as a hobby thing? etc. etc.
If anyone want to repay the great time he had with TDM, he can offer help, or create his own mission.
The only possible solution, as I see it, is to allow people to donate and from the money pool pay some proffesionals to do things that noone from the team could do. But all this is mainly on the development team, not on me..
He was sneeking silently in the night, moonlight was his enemy.
(Im not a native speaker, sorry for all miscleanous caused by my english..)

#20 Tels

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 03:27 PM

Turning TDM into a commercial game is not possible, not even if it was standalone. Not only because of the license issue (all former authors would need to agree to change the license), but also because of issue like "how to distribute the money, where to pay taxes etc". This is simple impossible.
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"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#21 Springheel

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 03:52 PM

also a lot of posts on the forum that greenlight is not for mods


That would seem to be a barrier.
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TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps

#22 AngelWolf

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 04:11 PM

What if the previous authors were given a small percentage in return for changing the liscence? or signing off on it. I'm no expert on liscences, but isn't there a way of knowing who wrote what section of the code in the VCS? We could base the percentage on how many lines of code perhaps? and yes we would have to legally register the business somewhere for tax purposes, but there is no law against us working out of our homes from somewhere else in the world. it may be difficult but it's not impossible. A cooperative would also allow us to decide on the percentages democratically.

Edited by AngelWolf, 31 August 2012 - 04:20 PM.

Taurus philosophy:
Give me a hammer and tell me I have 6 hours to break up a 2 inch thick layer of ice. As soon as you walk away I'm going to use some hot water and salt so I can take a nap for the remaining 5 and a half hours. Taureans hate wasting energy and if there's a more efficient way to do something they will find it.

#23 Springheel

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 04:15 PM

OK, what about the presentation video, is this one suitable: link? Looks amazing to me, sadly the footage is a bit old.


:o

Oh my god, definitely don't use that! It's seven years old. It has footage with the original Doom guy fists in it!

It specialy say that it dont need to be finihed:


I really don't want to be promoting TDM as something that "isn't finished". If the rules say that mods can't be included, then we should just wait until we're standalone.

Not really liking where this is going.... Bad promotion is worse than no promotion at all.
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TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps

#24 AngelWolf

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 04:42 PM

I'm pretty sure I could put together a nice gameplay trailer Springheel. I was already planning it out as part of a social networking campaign.
Taurus philosophy:
Give me a hammer and tell me I have 6 hours to break up a 2 inch thick layer of ice. As soon as you walk away I'm going to use some hot water and salt so I can take a nap for the remaining 5 and a half hours. Taureans hate wasting energy and if there's a more efficient way to do something they will find it.

#25 Tels

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 04:55 PM

Not really liking where this is going.... Bad promotion is worse than no promotion at all.


I can just underwrite this. We have already a lot of misconceptions about TDM and creating even more is not helping.

TDM isn't really a mod (it is a complete, total conversion at the minimum), it is not "just a toolset" (we have 50+ full more-than-one-hour-long missions to play!), and it is more finished than most games you can buy!
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"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax





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