Considering New Computer

[jaxa]

I can tell you that SSD reliability has improved dramatically in recent years as the market has matured. Competition is still very strong even with some consolidation in the market. Intel and Samsung seem to be well regarded on quality, someone else may have other recommendations.

 

Shrinking the feature size of SSDs (to as low as 15nm or so, like how Broadwell/Skylake use 14nm) has posed a write endurance dilemma for SSDs. The smaller the feature size, the higher the storage density, but the lower the write cycle endurance. SSDs use wear leveling to balance this, basically using all parts of the drive equally so that it prolongs the life. Adding more data per cell (1 bit = SLC, 2 bits = MLC, 3 bits = TLC, 4 bits = ???) can also lower the endurance since the amount of voltage states rises exponentially (2^n, so 8 states for triple-level-cell).

 

The industry has found a way to get around this: vertical NAND (V-NAND). It adds 3D layers to the flash chip, massively boosting capacity. So instead of using the latest and smallest NAND processes, older, bigger, more reliable processes are used, like 30-40nm. The extra layers can also help the SSD manufacturer to overprovision the drive (for example, telling you that it is a 480 GB drive, but actually including 520 GB, 40 GB of which can be sacrificed without lowering the capacity). Samsung is ahead of the pack in shipping V-NAND, but others like Intel, Micron, SanDisk, etc. should be shipping V-NAND around 2016.

 

SSD manufacturers can include different tiers of NAND in the same drive. So a V-NAND or 2D TLC drive can include a single-level-cell cache, which is fast and reliable but less dense. Some drives also contain as much as a gigabyte of RAM for cache purposes.

 

The random read access on SSDs is simply impossible to ignore. HDDs are left in the dust. For example, the Samsung 850 EVO is rated for 10,000 to 98,000 IOPS (Input/Output Operations Per Second) depending on the situation. HDDs have IOPS in the low hundreds. Having more IOPS is great for the operating system, games, and boot times. Here's some TDM performance data for HDD vs SSD vs RAM drive.

 

Another reason why I recommend an SSD is because prices have become more reasonable. $0.50/GB was the MSRP of 1-2 years ago. Now it's about $0.25/GB. You can get even lower with sales. For example, on Slickdeals I see the Samsung 850 EVO 500 GB for $114.81 ($0.23/GB) and SanDisk Ultra II 960GB for $219.99 ($0.23/GB).

 

HDDs are still fine for sequential operations like storing and playing video, so if you need to store bulk media files, that's where they should reside.

Edited December 11, 2015 by jaxa

[jaxa]

Here's how the bits per cell tradeoff works:

 

1 bit per cell (SLC): gravy

2 bits per cell (MLC): 100% more storage than SLC, double the voltage states (bad)

3 bits per cell (TLC): 50% more storage than MLC, double the voltage states

4 bits per cell (QLC?): 33% more storage than TLC, double the voltage states

8 bits per cell (!!!): 100% more storage than 4bpc, 16 times the voltage states

 

Diminishing returns. The industry seems to have settled with TLC for now and is using that with V-NAND.

[Bikerdude]

One quick question, though: is having an SSD worth it? I was speaking to someone about it today, and it seems they've had a lot of bad experiences with SSDs failing. They also pointed out that SSDs have limited write cycles, and seemed to think I'd start getting weird issues within a year of installation...

As you have a SATA3 based motherboard then very much so! Windows 7/8 will boot from cold to desktop in under 15-20 seconds. Just get the 'RIGHT' SSD, I recommend the Samsung 850 256GB Evo or Pro drives.

 

The Evo has 3yrs and the Pro 5yr warranties respectively, and you as a consumer are never likely to hit the max writes on either drive. Just look up how to setup Win7/8 to be SSD friendly.

[Aosys]

So, a bit of an update on the optical reader. Just received it in the mail today, and I had ordered the Samsung SATA 1.5 Gb-s Optical Drive, SH-224DB/BEBE from an Amazon seller. However, I instead received the newer model (the SH-224FB/BSBE) which just came out this year. I can't find it on PCPartpicker, though, so I'm wondering if it will be compatible with my build or not (though it is still a SATA connection). What do you guys think?

[Bikerdude]

yes, its just an optical drive. And your motherboard is new enough to be ALL sata.

[jaxa]

Here's a piece of metal: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/msi-cpuguard-1151-skylake-worries,30769.html

[Aosys]

Here's a piece of metal: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/msi-cpuguard-1151-skylake-worries,30769.html

 

With regards to the bending issue, I did find this:

 

http://www.pcr-online.biz/news/read/intel-skylake-cpu-damage-here-s-what-cooler-master-arctic-scythe-thermaltake-and-more-have-to-say/037271

 

Do you think I should still invest in a CPU guard when it becomes available?

 

Also, I've ordered and received most of my parts now(!), but I'm still looking for a decent keyboard and mouse (nothing fancy, but preferably something comfortable and durable). Any recommendations here?

[jaxa]

Given the statements it looks like there's nothing to worry about in most cases.

 

The mouse I use is the Logitech M705. Cheap ($20-30 on sale), wireless, great scrollwheel, very effective.

[Aosys]

Alright, so here's what I found. For keyboard and mouse, wired and with volume controls:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Full-Size-Keyboard-High-Definition-920-002714/dp/B003NR874S/ref=sr_1_10?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1450664804&sr=1-10&keywords=keyboard+and+mouse&refinements=p_89%3ALogitech

 

And for a new UPS unit:

 

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500AVRLCD-Intelligent-1500VA-Mini-Tower/dp/B000FBK3QK/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1450637021&sr=1-2&keywords=ups

[Bikerdude]

I have that k/b & mouse and I have installed that UPS for a family member, a good plus point of that UPS is it complient with ALL Synology and possibly other NAS boxes -

 

- https://www.synology.com/en-us/compatibility?search_by=products&category=upses&p=1&product_bays=2&product_name=DS215%2B&not_recommend_mode=false

 

But also the cyberpower brand is quite good, thier customer service in the UK is second to none. When I had a complicated pre-sales query the UK manager emailed/called me directly!

[Aosys]

Good news: new computer is up and running! Well, mostly running - I'm having some mild problems with the wi-fi right now. After some pain installing all the drivers, I've got my Cisco/Linksys AE2500 hooked up and receiving a wifi signal. What I'm getting isn't terrible (it fluctuates, but usually is around 48.0-54.0 Mbps), but it's currently set up with TKIP encryption. My laptop is connected to the same network, uses AES encryption, and gets a pretty solid 65.0 Mbps. When I try to switch my new computer over to AES, it says it's connected and getting good speed, but functionally the connection is terrible to nonexistent. Should I just keep it on TKIP, or is there perhaps a way to fix this?

[Bikerdude]

Just change the encryption to AES in this instance, whats the make /model of your router..?

[Aosys]

Just change the encryption to AES in this instance, whats the make /model of your router..?

 

It's a Comcast Xfinity Arris TG862 (though it should be noted I'm not the admin). Also, like I said, if I switch to AES I basically can't connect to the internet.

[Bikerdude]

Ah ok, ok time to research to see if there are issues with this router -

 

- http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Home-Networking-Router-WiFi/Comcast-Arris-TG862G-WiFi-Problems/td-p/1911861

 

Looks like you might want to downgrade the firmware if the above link is accorate. To gain access to your router -

 

- http://setuprouter.com/router/arris/tg862/login.htm- ID = admin, PW = password

 

And while doing a search for your router I found this -

 

- http://www.tomsguide.com/us/how-to-disable-xfinity-wifi,news-19036.html

 

Reading the above, if the second SSID is on the same or adjacent channel, this may well cause drop-outs on the your SSID. ON a personaly and prefessional note, I absolutley cannot stand for my ISP allowing others to use my connection - I pay for the damn thing etc.

 

If you need a hand with the above, go download and install teamviewer and drop me a PM.

[Anderson]

You can play games on OnLive-like platforms to not spend money on a new PC.

[Aosys]

@Bikerdude I went to have a look at that first article, and it seems like the easiest fix at this point is just to switch to TKIP. Since I don't own the router, I can't go mucking around with the firmware, so I guess this is the best I can do.

 

On a more positive note, thanks for drawing my attention to the Home Hotspot problem - I pointed it out, and we got it disabled right quick. Comcast really overstepped their boundaries this time...

 

 

And again, an enormous thank you to everyone!

[jaxa]

What were your final specs?

 

I have never had a desktop with wireless.

 

Enjoy.

[Aosys]

What were your final specs?

 

Ended up going with the original build you suggested, even though it was a little more expensive. Also added Biker's monitor, plus the keyboard, mouse, and UPS unit.

[Destined]

Hi all,

 

I am forced to buy a new PC, since mine died a couple of days of ago. I don't have a lot of money at the time, so I asked a friend what he would suggest and he got would buy the following components:

 

OS: Win 10 pro

CPU: i5-6600

Cooling: Noctua NH-L12

Main board: ASRock Z170 Pro4S

RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport DIMM Kit 16GB

Graphics: Zotac GeForce GTX 960 AMP!

Power supply: Cooler Master B500 ver.2 500W ATX 2.3

DVD: Samsung SH-224FB schwarz

SSD: Crucial MX200 250GB

 

I usually trust his judgement, but still wanted to know, what the tech savvies in the forum think. With this setup I would pay around 1000 Euro. And yes, I would also rather not get Win10 (I avoided upgrading as much as everyone), but in this case it is a question of availability and price . The pro version at least lets you tune down the spyware/Ad crap as much as possible. Thanks in advance for any help!

Edited December 31, 2015 by Destined

[Bikerdude]

1. OS: Win 10 pro
2. CPU: i5-6600
3. Cooling: Noctua NH-L12
4. Main board: ASRock Z170 Pro4S
5. RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport DIMM Kit 16GB
6. Graphics: Zotac GeForce GTX 960 AMP!
7. Power supply: Cooler Master B500 ver.2 500W ATX 2.3
8. DVD: Samsung SH-224FB schwarz
9. SSD: Crucial MX200 250GB

1. I strongly suggest avoiding Win10, you can reuse the Win7 key from your old PC.
2. No issue here.
3. Nice cooler but, a). it's overly expensive, and intel chips dont run that hot, all you need is a cooler that runs quietly
4. Im not a fan of ASrock as they only offer 1yr warranties, for the same money I would suggest an Asus, Msi or Gigabyte which typically offer 2-3yrs.
5. Its good ram, but this is performance ram. Intel i5/i7 chips don't really make use of the extra speed due to onboard memory controller, so save some money buy getting low end branded ram.
6. Same issue as the AMP, piss-poor warranty period, spend a few extra $$ and get a Asus, Msi or Gigabyte for the extra 2+ yrs.
7. Its a nice PSU, but EVGA do bigger rated PSU's for the same money that also have the benefit of being silent.
8. Ok as optical drives go.
9. Its ok as a data drive, but for an extra few $$ you can get a Samsung 850 evo 256gb which will wipe the floor with the crucial.
10. also I assume your reusing your old case, whats the make/model?

What online retailer are you and are you buddy using..? as I can find you a better deal and save you some cash at the same time.

[Destined]

Thanks for the input! I will forward your concerns/suggestions to my friend and discuss it with him.

We compared the parts at www.geizhals.de and would order at www.midfactory.de, since they have all the parts we need and have reasonable prices.

 

The case I have is a "Thermaltake Armor Junior". It did good in the past (especially, there was almost no dust getting into the case).

 

Regarding Win10: I followed the thread in the forum about all the crap Microsoft is pulling with Win10, but the problem I have is: my computer still ran under Vista and this was a version I got with the computer, so I never wrote down the product key. Additionally, this was the 32bit version and I want to switch to 64bit, because I bought Shadow of Mordor for Christmas, not noticing that it only runs on 64bit systems. So I need a new OS, anyway, and for most affordable versions of Win7 the seller/shop had reviews, that many of the product keys were not accepted or the version bought did not pass the authentication. So, as much as it pains me to submit to Win10, I fear I have little choice here

[Bikerdude]

Ok will have a look at both those sites over the weekend, regarding win10, you can legit copies of Win7 and 8.1 from ebay piss cheap (I will find you some links)

[Destined]

I just received an answer regarding your remarks (I will have to translate):

 

1. I already commented on before

2. no comment

3. the cooler is very noiseless and was chosen for this exact reason (even it is a bit more expensive)

4. according to geizhals.de ASrock has a 3 year warranty. Mindfactory.de is currently inaccessible due to database maintenance, so he could not llok it up there. Also his personal experience with ASrock-boards is very good

5. The RAM he suggested is already low price

6. A matter of opinion; he suggests the Gigabyte GeForce GTX 960 WindForce 2X OC, 4GB GDDR5, DVI, HDMI, 3x DisplayPort (or the ASUIS equivalent) as an alternative, but it is only 20 € difference

7. Also a matter of opinion. According to ratings there is not much difference in the price region I am aiming for

8. no comment

9. according to anandtech.com:
"The Samsung 850 EVO and Crucial MX200 trade places depending on the benchmark and capacity, with the only constants being that the 850 EVO has lower idle power consumption and the MX200 has better steady-state random write performance. On average, the 850 EVO performs a bit better, but it's a tough generalization to make."

So the alternative would be the Samsung 850 Pro 256GB, but it costs a third more than the suggested one and would require a frame for building it in.

 

So far his response. Thanks again for helping me. I hope I can order the parts this evening or maybe tomorrow, so I have a functioning PC in the course of the next week. I have my notebook, but it is not strong enough for most games, and I really miss gaming...

[Bikerdude]

All good point and feeback.

 

6. I would get the gigabyte 960 with the 3 fans, I have the 970 version and the card is near silent under full load.

9. I didnt know crucial had released a drive that matched Samsung evo drive for random read/write: 4k QD1 qudos! - so choice is simple get the cheapest drive, that said the Samsung Evo comes with 5yr warranty and the pro 10yrs. The crucial only has a 3yr, but it does feature hardware encryption (review) and Samsung/Crucial compare

[Oldjim]

Looking at the comparison this part surprised me - is it really correct