Wellingtoncrab
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Posts posted by Wellingtoncrab
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@Klatremus I see - so supreme ghost doesn't have a requirement to get all of the loot? (makes sense as I imagine there are many missions where that isn't achievable). Still I think this small change is an improvement as the suspicious door behavior was a bit strange and if it also helps support being able to experience more of the mission with the playstyle I am for it in this instance. I have included this change in this updated beta (same link)
Glad to hear the first impressions of the ai changes are good! I really appreciate you taking the time to test it out. The changes are mission wide including Rookbridge and Brebower, though as you progress there were more and more areas where AI were always hostile to the player so the impact becomes less. There are many elements in the scripting which are manipulating the AIs relationship to the player, so I would be quite surprised if something didn't get a little weird as a result of the change but so far it has been working quite well in my testing.
The difficulty increase is what concerns me, so I would be very curious as far as what you think of how it affects the balance of the mission. I already have this change restricted to the medium and highest difficulty settings, but I might change it to only be the highest.
I might recommend given whatever was going on with the AI path finding in last version to try cleaning out the fm directory completely before dropping the beta package in.
Thanks again!
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@Klatremusthe guards are supposed to notice the door being opened but they are not supposed to be able to close it again (it seemed strange for them to not react to this mysterious vault being opened).
I of course did not take this into account that it may make the mission unghostable at a certain level.
I did attempt to design Iris to enable as many playstyles as possible including on the very extremes, so in this instance I do think it is appropriate to make a change to enable the vault to be accessed for these types of players.
So I am thinking instead of them reacting suspiciously to the door I will add additional patrol paths so the ai explore the vault if the door is opened. This more or less achieves the same thing "narratively" and will add a nice bit of tension to trying to loot the vault without busting a ghost playthrough.
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@Klatremusno that is definitely correct - I ask as files extracted to the directory take load precedence over stuff packed in the .pk4 , so it's possible that if certain files were in the directory they could be overwriting the archive contents but sounds like that is definitely not the issue.
I will try installing the stealth tool as see if I can load the save.
15 minutes ago, Klatremus said:Did you see my question about the monument hall door closing above btw?
Ah sorry I missed that! Interesting - the door is flagged that ai should not interact with it but I can confirm with enough time they will eventually close the door even sealing the player inside (for me this took them roughly 10 minutes). Definitely not as intended and I will fix this!
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@Klatremusdarn - unfortunately the save doesn't want to load for me even on 1.12 Iris (pre hotfix) and 2.10 release. I am sure there are plenty of reasons a save wouldn't load, but would there be any other reason for differences in you local TDM version or Iris? (Like are you on a dev build, have mods installed, do you have the fm extracted from the .pk4)
So for now I have fallen back to just watching the patrols routes for these AI's at 10x speed hoping to see where they might get bound up but I haven't been able to replicate it on any of the recent versions of Iris. Given how many AI in your playthrough have the issue it's almost like there may be an issue with the .aas file which contains the pathfinding info for all the AI, I just have no idea how.
I would typically recommend redownloading the mission, but since this no longer matches your local version my guess is it would break your save.
My apologies at it certainly spoils the immersion a bit.
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@Klatremus sure! That actually could help figure out what’s going on provided I can still load the save. 5 ai getting stuck at this point definitely means something is off.
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@Klatremushmm ... that's a tricky one. I spent quite a bit of time at 10x timescale observing these ai and couldn't replicate them getting stuck. Normally I would think the AI must have gotten alerted and deviated from their patrol paths managing to get stuck but since you're doing a ghost playthrough this would also be strange. I moved some geometry out of their way and put more aggressive clipping in these ai's patrol paths which hopefully would prevent them from getting stuck.
These changes, as well as the updated AI scripting and other tweaks are available here in this beta branch of Iris
Obviously no pressure to test it, but they are there if you are interested. Replace your iris.pk4 with irisbeta.pk4
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@Klatremusvery helpful - thank you!
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2 hours ago, Klatremus said:
Almost done with my ghost run now, but I'll definitely take a look after that. The lack of tension while ghosting areas that are supposed to be hostile in most of Red Rook is the biggest con I have so far. Hollowbrook is a whole different story since everyone is fully hostile there. Got 4 stuck guards in total, which was strange.
Thanks! Your feedback there will be greatly appreciated.
Do you recall the areas where the AI were getting stuck? I can take a look at that as well.
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@Klatremus I have been working on some improvements to the AI scripting in the southbridge areas you pointed out which should make those AI act more consistently with the base game (reacting suspiciously to player sounds in areas that are hostile for example). Admittedly I am not much of a scripter so while it seems quite promising I am worried I have broken something or thrown off the mission balance.
I could use some help testing the changes and your play style would be well suited if you are willing, but unfortunately while it is just a script swap it doesn't seem to be compatible with older saves so I understand if you're not interested at this point in your playthrough.
Still I am attaching the beta version of Iris here which you would just need to replace iris.pk4 in FM's directory with this irisbeta.pk4 if you (or anyone else) are interested in testing it.
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This was a very cool playthrough of this great mission @marbleman- "let's plays" are interesting in themselves but it was a nice change to watch such a practiced playthrough and some of the creative solutions you came up with along the way.
I am looking forward to seeing you run through Noble Affairs!
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2 minutes ago, Klatremus said:
Makes sense, thanks. Another question (sorry I've got so many):
This time I can't seem to trigger the Hero of Red Rook objective. I read all 3 Red Rook History volumes, as well as the book in Rodere's locked drawer, but nothing. Was there anything else needed in order to trigger it?
No problem - it’s quite interesting to hear how the mission works with this play style and I am glad anyone enjoys the mission enough to even try.
SpoilerYou need to find Lord Rodere himself - which shouldn’t be an issue if you’re collecting most of the mementos.
If you need a more explicit hint:
SpoilerLord Rodere’s alter ego is Rat Man and you can find him in the decommissioned drain along with the Rodent’s Cowl.
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1 hour ago, Klatremus said:
Thanks for that.
One other thing I noticed while ghosting this. In hardly any of the buildings marked as 'hostile' south of the bridge do the inhabitants react to sounds you make.
It is a limitation of the custom scripting that handles whether AI are hostile or not in these types of areas - since they are only hostile to the player if they witness the player committing a crime they are technically neutral while you are making that noise.
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7 hours ago, Klatremus said:
Is the bug in v1.12 game breaking? I started ghosting now after your first update, but don't want to restart if the hotfix is just nipickings. Or can I just replace it without a restart? I kinda doubt it.
No, it was a very minor thing regarding something which was added and doesn’t break the mission at all. No need to restart imo.
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Well I managed to both include some unnecessary files in the archive (somewhat undermining my effort to reduce its size) and introduce a new bug - so here we have the better and smaller IRIS 1.12 Hotfix available here or in the the original post.
All apologies - though deepest apologies to @nbohr1more for having to update the archive server side twice.
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8 hours ago, datiswous said:
Hey, are there plans for an Iris 2?
I know what I want to do as a follow up at this point - but as much as I’d like to it’s very hard to say if I would be able to finish a project like that again!
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Spoiler
I believe you have them all - though the wording will change contextually for those with multiple solutions so they may appear different in different playthroughs.
-Last remembrance from this place is indeed collecting all the mementos
-Hero of Red Rook means you have both read the origin story and found the unfortunate end of Lord Rodere
-Glimpse the poison page means you have managed to enter Ursine's vault
-Regarding the radiant path - you have followed it to it's end for now
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"In the dark one might even mistake its sheen for gold."
-{REDACTED}IRIS has been updated to 1.12
Download is via the link in the original post or here
Changelog:
- Modest decrease in the archive size
- Lots of small bug fixes
- Fixed issues related to loot totals reported by @Klatremus
- Added some clues regarding an optional objective
- For those who cannot stay in bounds added greater mysteries of the void. (thanks for the catch @Dragofer)
- Regarding the white {REDACTED} in {REDACTED} the player can now reveal {REDACTED} when wearing {REDACTED}
Carry the light of The Builder, unto its end.
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11 hours ago, Daft Mugi said:Spoiler
Nostalgia is the pain felt by a sentimental longing for the past. Sorrow is the present feeling of pain from loss or wrong. Penitence is an act of regret in acceptance of having done wrong.
I did not expect as many players would trigger the occultation and many even on their first play through. I was actually not so sure many would play the mission at all, but I was pleasantly wrong on all counts! The occultation ending is not the “good” or “actual” ending of Iris - but it is an end. My hope would be no players feel they have missed out by not pursuing it (most would not even be aware of it unless they have dived into spoilers in this thread) and that there would be plenty to discover to make a satisfying experience on any difficulty, but as I stated I have been wrong before.
@Klatremusthanks for catching those! I have them on my bug tracker to look at.
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@KlatremusThanks so much for playing! I am glad to hear you enjoyed the mission!
2 hours ago, Klatremus said:Does the alternate ending only trigger if you get all the mementos? If so, for my ghost run I'd like to avoid this objective and instead return home, but I'd like to skip a memento that doesn't count as loot and that doesn't trigger any other new objectives. I think the only one that fits those criteria is the Cracked and Crooked Lens.
SpoilerIt does require finding all of the mementos but it is also difficultly dependent - so it is possible to collect all them and not trigger the Occultation if you play on Nostalgia or Sorrow - though I suspect playing on the higher difficulty is also part of the ghosting experience. Unfortunately unless I have just forgotten I believe all of the mementos contribute some amount of loot score - the lens included. The quill I believe is the lowest value one at 1 gold. Perhaps I have messed this up as I did try and support ghosting as a play style but I admit to not being super well versed in the rule set (I am not particularly good at it myself) and the conflict didn’t occur to me. If you do have suggestions to better support the play style I would happily consider them for a patch.
2 hours ago, Klatremus said:SpoilerI am not sure I would describe it as logical, I certainly have never been able to make the jumps required myself, but I know it’s possible without crates as I had testers and players getting up there - that readable is just for those souls for whom seemingly no map can contain.
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9 minutes ago, nbohr1more said:
The current "Blackjack mini-game" ( skull baseball ) is pretty fun when you get the hang of it but the lack of visual cues to execute it are why most new players get frustrated with it.
I think the context cue from the animation driving this thread addresses this aspect potentially well, especially if the legacy blackjack systems stay in place. I would be of the opinion the issue is really with the inconsistency or ambiguities in the core mechanic and that addressing this at the root by simplifying (if not outright aping the thief rules) is the best way to go, and is certainly at a minimum time well spent developing and testing.
Not wishing to alter to core mechanics is also an understandable position, in that way I would find the context cue animation to at least be a promising improvement and helpful to players like myself who see the nuances as frustrating instead of engaging (kind of in the vein of the frob helper/bow aimer). To me the KO loop is predominantly about closing the gap and remaining undetected - adding this finicky positional layer has only ever added friction in my experience as a player.
More or less I am just happy to see this being worked on and I look forward to testing when it makes it to a dev build!
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28 minutes ago, Klatremus said:
Any loose hints to the code for
the lockup safe at the precinct? I assumed there would be some info in admin. I did find the symbol using the glasses, but it just pointed to the lockup key which I already had, but that only opens the cells and evidence locker, not the safe. I thought perhaps there would be hidden writing on the wall in one of the cells, but no.
SpoilerYeah I feel it is a oversight there isn’t a good clue for where to go for this code in the admin building itself - Let’s just say Renwick who manages the books and accounts for the precinct has had a long day and is currently unwinding in one of Red Rook’s storied drinking establishments
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7 hours ago, Obsttorte said:
The default sitting animation doesn't really suit this kind of chair. It looks like those used to get you shoes cleaned, so I am not sure whether they are fitting anyways.
I think it’s a barber chair as well - more of a Victorian feel which I think can work with the setting - some custom animations would definitely add a lot. There was some question on the discord whether ai would be able to sit in it at all given it’s height and the step so it at least it works (with help from a bit of monster clip)
7 hours ago, Obsttorte said:In regards to the other models it appears the the specularity of the wooden materials is higher then with our stock assets. So reducing that might already get things closer to the current look.
This is very tricky to get consistent across lighting conditions - the “showroom” light is fullbright which kind of exaggerates the effect and they (hopefully) look more natural in scene lighting. All of the four revisions contained some amount of tweaks to specularity on the materials always still working on that!
7 hours ago, Obsttorte said:I am not sure whether poly count/details is always the main issue when it comes to how good assets fit into the mod. I would assume it is more a matter of the overall look.
Yeah I would say while I think it’s gotten better over time, until recently video games have seemingly never been afforded the opportunity to be concerned with consistency in terms of fidelity across assets. If you look at the xbox 360/ps3 area where things like asset streaming from disc and memory management were much more constrained the fidelity of assets was all over the place. The detail was of course typically weighted by an assets prevalence in a scene, so you could still argue TDM is at a disadvantage there, but it’s just to say I think you can still have a consistent visual style with varying levels of detail across assets.
Bad news would be that kind of consistency is just as hard to achieve. That being out of whack I think is at a glance more likely to cause a player to feel something is out of place.
There is obviously some problem with these assets in that they were never intended to be art in an engine like this. The low detail diffuse from a PBR material with the high level of geometric detail on the models themselves instead of say the normal map means they are never going to get as much out of the engine as efficiently as something which was built for the ground up for it.
Still … the price and license arrangement is right.
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Sure. That’s a dynamic that even exists amongst the core assets themselves. It’s almost as if lots of different people have contributed over a decade plus!
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Fan Mission: Iris by WellingtonCrab [TDM 2.10 Required] (2022/02/13)
in Fan Missions
Posted
All of the keys should be droppable - I may have just missed flagging that one. I will add it to the fix list.