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That's what the new PatchInspector looks like: I wanted to strip the unused elements from the old dialog first, but the code was hard to clean up so I thought I'd be faster taking the new Surface Inspector as a template. All the controls get inactivated if there is more or less than exactly one patch selected.

Oh absolutely, I agree. I think you should select at least one control point, and then hitting a key would propagate the selection to the rest of the brush/patch. Either of those sound great to me. A thought about the always on top issue: I can't really think of a reason why the viewports would have to be always on top windows. Maybe the solution is to take that away from them? Dialogs will always stay atop of them, and the user can toggle to close them. As it is now, I always seem to lose the Shortcuts list behind my iso view. Pressing buttons like a dope, "did I just freeze up DR?!" Nope, just lost something behind the damn viewports again.

Seems so. There is a property for GtkWindows that should make them try to stay on top (gtk_window_set_keep_above()), but that doesn't work (I tried to implement it for the surface inspector). It's probably not working because all the other windows (xyview, camera, entity inspector) are "toplevel" windows as well, so this is presumably some kind of z-fighting. As for the L + click selection: I would prefer it that the user either has to actually click a button (just pressing the L-key while pointing with the mouse is not quite something called "standard" or "expected" behaviour) or press a keyboard shortcut after the first selection. I'd suggest one of these two things: - The user selects one vertex of the patch and hits Ctrl-Plus once to select all vertices of the same patch (this is similar to the Ctrl-Plus/Ctrl-Minus behaviour in Blender). - The user clicks with the middle button onto one of the vertices and all connected vertices are selected within the same click (could be MMB, or any button/modifier combination). What do you think?

If you are able to get it to work, that would rock. That feature alone is one I was wanting about 200 times last night. I was trying to manually align the front and undersides of some doorway arches, and I went throught the same routine each time: -select both -oops, they overlap. deselect one -select all control points of the other -drag it off of the overlap -re-select the other for textool -re-select the control points, now I'm ready to do some work But if I wanted to change anything, return to step one. Plus, I was trying to do this in full screen mode, which meant that each time I clicked the camera window, I had to press alt-T (my textool hotkey) twice to toggle it off and back on*. Heh, I was going insane. With this, I could just select one control point, hit the hotkey, and then one whole brush/patch is selected, woooot. *Always On Top toggle buttons for all of these dialogs would be fantastic, but I think it was indicated that was beyond GTK functions?

Is this tool officially done now, or is there more coming? Does that Blender-like 'select all for brush/patch' look like it would work? Not nagging, just curious.

Jesus Christ! How many have problems on Thief anyway???? And what wrong with this game? (Well I have seen MUCH worse, but still this thing is annoying!) An unofficial patch could be done?

To the forums, yes. To the internet, no.

I don't have internet access. Whenever I want to read the forums, I go to modetwo's servers and do my posting there. (Ya rly!)

Inventor Engineer (WIP): http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=5371 Noblewoman rigging/mesh fixes: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=5425

I also put in some links about human proportions on the forum: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=5333

Maybe the easiest way is just to chop the whole right half of the patch properties window off, and leave the existing one for special cases where it's needed. Then you've got rows, column, S...T, and tesselation all on one dialog with no further work.

I was running into the same problem like you and I found out that the orientation in world and in texture space was different and I dragged the wrong vertices around. I will add some buttons for flipping and rotating the selected patch vertices, they will sure come in handy. edit: FlipX/FlipY buttons are available now. @New Horizon: Thanks.

Also, might want to have a look at this: http://208.49.149.118/thedarkmod/maps/9arch.zip I was trying to use the TexTool to make what was being discussed earlier, a continuous texture across two arch patches (I won't keep you in suspense, it worked ). But I found something weird: http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tt1ls7.jpg Note that the two arches are not texture aligned in the picture (if you can't tell from the image, have a look in the map), even though the rotation is correct and according to the textool, they should be aligned. When I went back to the textool, and overlapped them by four grid units, now they are aligned on the patches. http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tt2xm3.jpg I wasn't sure if there might be some kind of offset problem, or the patch vertices are messed up or whatever, so you've got the map as well. I wonder if flipping and rotating in textool would be overkill? I tried flipping a patch, like flipping a blanket - basically dragging the left edge beyond the right - but I'm not sure if it gave me the result I wanted. *ducks*

Keeps getting better! Only problem I've had: Did that make it into the upload version? Doesn't seem to work for me. With the textool having focus, I select some control points, and then ESC to clear them, and ESC again (and again) to try to deselect the patch, but nothing happens. Edit: Also, after snapping to grid, how does one turn off grid snapping again? I seem to have it stuck on.

Does the new tex tool make Row, Column, X, Y, Z, S, and T obsolete? Perhaps it does. I hadn't really thought about it. Tesselation per brush/patch as a menu item shouldn't have any problems, I think?

The new Surface Dialog is feature complete and the TexTool is up and running. Do we still need the Patch Surface Inspector (Shift-S) as a dialog window or should I incorporate it into the menu as "Curve > Edit Tesselation"?

We don't have a firm plan in mind, which is why I'm bringing it up again. From previous discussions it seemed like decals were probably the way to go, as they would adapt themselves to fit the world geometry, where meshes would not. But that's as far as we got. We have Mikebart's ivy texture: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...=4817&st=25, so if you'd like to take a shot at putting an ivy effect together, feel free.

I've got news on this. The preference "Patch Subdivide Threshold" does influence how the patches are tesselated in DarkRadiant. Lowering this value (and restarting DarkRadiant) makes the patches subdivide smoother. A value of 2 yields the same result as DoomEdit, I believe: However, I don't know if this is the remedy for all inconsistencies, but at least it's a start. If everybody agrees I will make 2 the default threshold value. Performance issues in game are unlikely because this affects only the tesselation in DarkRadiant itself, not in the Doom 3 engine (unless you choose fixed tesselation, a patchDef3).

Yes, I let the window catch the ESC key to make it more intuitive. I also thought about pressing ESC twice to let the "Deselect" command propagate to the main window (first ESC = deselect texture vertices, another ESC = deselect the actual brushes/patches). I was already working on that, but my first attempt failed. This is on the plate. Yes, vertex editing for brushes is impossible, although (as you already stated), a scaling would be possible. I will probably remove the corner vertices and replace them by axis-aligned scale manipulators. With rectangular faces, it would be ok to have the manipulators on each edge, but with more than four-sided faces this won't work. Agreed, this would be helpful. Don't know how hard this would be to achieve, but I'll see to it. This may be impossible, but I'll try to think of a solution. Currently, the TexTool gets notified upon selection change, but it is not possible to compare the previous selection to the current one, you just get a bunch of objects. It could be the same face as selected before or it could be a patch, you can never know. Perhaps it's possible to link the TexTool more deeply into the SelectionSystem, so it may be possible to get a grip on what exactly happened during the last selection change.

Just read about komags attempted return to ttlg... I then put a post up in the general section http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112346 Lets see how long it stays up there for.. biker Update: I Pm'd some of the mod's and got this unexpected reply... I do realise the frustration some people feel over the Komag banning. And I also don't expect for a second that anyone believes me when I say I don't have a damned thing against him as a person and that he will probably always be one of the top five Saints of TTLG (if ever such a thing exists) due to his near single-handedly kicking the editing and fan mission community back to life and then doing far more than pretty much anyone else to keep it breathing until it was capable of standing up again. I think the above is never said because it honestly doesn't really need to be said. No one's under any illusions about his contributions to the Thief community, which is why the way everything ended was such a stupid and needless thing. But the tale of TTLG v. Komag is long, exceptionally Long, nobody wanted to ban him, and a lot of time and effort was spent trying to figure out a way to resolve things without it getting that far. In the end, however, the decision wasn't up to us. So we have what we have. Admins - Please lock this thread and remove all posts after this one, also change the title to just "Komag's ghost" (remove the ttlg admins are bitchy, as clearly some of them or not) please. I request this In the spirit of the ttlg admin who replied to my PM.

I was rahter thinking about solution for mappers who are not familiar with 3d app. I think if you scale and translate texture on the patch, you can have only desired part of texture on the patch - same result as slicing plane in 3d app. I don't know if those uv coordinates would stay the same after manipulating copied patches. Alternatively we can make simple - 1 rectangle models with those fragments, and then mapper could convert them to worldspawn geometry, so they don't break entities limit. But you don't have to worry about that - we will look after your ivy...

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112036 You will likely need to go through the TTLG FAQ to find the fixes he mentions.

SneaksieDave, I've got something you will probably like Download the latest snapshot here: http://208.49.149.118/TheDarkMod/DarkRadia..._latest_SVN.zip I rewrote the TextureTool (mostly from scratch) so that it has its own window now instead of being an attachment to the Surface Inspector. You probably will have to assign a shortcut in the Shortcut Editor for now (the command is named TextureTool). Things that work - The texture space of the selected objects is visualised. Similar to Blender, but infinite. - U/V coord editing of the seleceted Patches. Changes are updated in realtime. - Zooming and origin mouse drag is analogous to the XYView (they use the same buttons/modifiers) - Multiple vertex controls can be selected and translated at the same time. - Drag rectangle selection of multiple vertices. - Only objects using the very same shader can be edited in the TexTool (everything else wouldn't make sense). - Brush Face support (whole brushes as well as single faces) - Better visual representation of the patches/brushes. - Grid Display (Resize grid with Shift-Plus and Shift-Minus) - Grid Snapping of the U/V operations - Grid Snapping of selected items (Shift-G) - ESC is propagated to the main window if nothing is selected. - Most important commands are available via the Toolbar - Vertex U/V "merging" (standard shortcut: Alt-M). - All operations are undo-able Things that don't work yet / things that are planned - Disable the display of "ineffective" patch vertices (not every control vertex of a patch is actually used regarding its texture coords). Please try it out and give me feedback!

pinkdot; if you can clip patch meshes you should be able to fit the texture onto a patch mesh and slice it up that way, im realy not too experienced with doom3ed though so I personaly would find it easier to manipulate in a 3d app, if you can export your brushes to .obj's then you could build the ivy around the model in a 3d app and then export it into doom3 and align the ivy model to the brushes. I cant remember how long the arch took I made it about 9 months ago, but most of the detail is made up of lots of small models, so theres alot of copying, dragging and dropping wich speeds up the process alot. The problem is that there's also alot of wasted polys so performance wise its not the best method. Ive come to the conclusion that this isnt realy the best way to acheive detail in a high poly model and im now combining this method with putting bumpmapped and normalmapped textures onto the highpoly model itself for the little nicks, cracks and dents etc.. and using the highpoly models for the more shape defining normals, any bumpmap or normal map put on the hi poly model gets added to the final projected low poly normalmap, <--thats something I didnt know at the time I built that arch and im getting much better results now. With the ivy, Ive got an idea for acheiving shadow for the underlying polys through vertex blending, it would only require one extra 8bit map so it wouldnt be too taxing on texture memory I already added an ambient occlusion pass to the diffuse so that the leaves wich overlap each other dont look so matted together but its very subtle.

You'll need to download the actual mod, then install it and get a couple things set up with Dark Radiant, then you're in business. Download links and instructions are in the Beta Testing forums and on the wiki. I meant to have a good beginner setup tutorial ready, but it's not done yet, sorry.