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I made Subtitle files with help of Whisper. This uses only srt files. No inline subs. Edit: subtitles added to mission.

I think it looks much better when included in the subtitle background block.

I dunno, it seems to me that if you're not going to show the ring widget (because, say, it's the narrator talking, so second parameter SUBTITLE_SPATIALIZED is false), you shouldn't show the tab it sits on either. About the red dot location. I understand what you are saying about perspective earlier, but that might have been more apt when the ring had a thicker lower edge. As it is, I tested by first facing the sound source, then turning 180 degrees. I expect the red dot to be about the same distance from the ring perimeter... that's why I tweaked by 0.5 px Hmm, maybe we should at least try to get subtitle font color among the possible CVars. That is probably the least controversial. I see the choice as either to be fully flexible (triplet for RGB) or, easier for the user, just a boolean (white vs yellow). Either would work for me. You guys? BTW, it is possible to markup particular words in the subtitle with a primary color, for emphasis. @datiswous, you asked about this a while ago. Did you actually apply it to any game FM? The 2 obvious colors for emphasis are red and yellow. A yellow emphasis would be lost if all the text was yellow. Another potential problem: if the fake drop shadows were an option, then the markup would also override the black shadow with color, leading to the emphasized word becoming an unreadable blob. (This could be resolved by the engine providing a second version of the text string, stripped of markup.) Otherwise, maybe a policy for subtitlers: "no markup on subtitles"

I could move the text down 1 pixel more, but then the text descenders don't have much to breathe. The overall problem is that the bottom-most subtitle slot, if moved further down, begins to conflict too much with other HUD items. For wider story subtitles, this is the corner inventory and weapon items. For all subtitle types, it is the lower informational messages that can appear above the breathe bar. Keep in mind that all these conflicting HUD elements can be enlarged at user discretion through Settings. One solution is to have the engine change the order in which it fills empty subtitle slots. Currently it is: 0 (lowest), 1, 2. If instead it did either of these policies: Fill order: 1, 2, 0 for all subtitle types; or Fill order: 1, 2, 0 for story subtitles. 0, 1, 2 for non-story subtitles Then the frequency of conflict would be significantly lessened - particularly with (1) - since having 3 subtitles shown at the same time is rare. With a revised policy, the backing fields could be made taller, allowing more widget room, with slot 0 (and slot 1 to a lesser extend) lowered

Creating a new thread for this as it was being discussed in an old beta-testing thread starting here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21822-beta-testing-high-expectations/&do=findComment&comment=490751 I suppose the main questions are: when should this spawnarg be used, if at all? why was it introduced in the first place? Can we get it documented properly on the Wiki so misuse isn't propagated? @stgatilov @Dragofer

I think the positioning circle should be part of the subtitle block, not positioned above it. There should be enough space left above the subtitle block with background to include it.

I wonder if you could test 9x versus 4x-diagonals and 4x-non-diagonals? Maybe the extra 5 renders don't add much. There probably is some minor performance effect. I think you're still showing the widget too high, so it seems to be associated with the wrong subtitle. I prefer @stgatilov's original vertical positioning, even though it pushes the widget's lower edge against the top of the caption lettering. I wasn't sure what you where trying to point out as a problem... was it the word wrap? Yeah, the automatic word wrap with centered text can look ugly at times. An FM author can choose to insert a manual line break in that case. I do that routinely all the time for barks. Since padding is part of the background box, sure. It occurs to me now that maybe, to improve the appearance of text centering, the background box should also have equal-size padding on the left. That is, the location and size of the inner box is unchanged, but the outer box is wider and its origin shifted left, so the inner box is centered horizontally within. The padding can certainly be made smaller. I imagine the seed value of 17px was for a worse-case character like "W", that was then rounded up to 20. We could shrink it by: - choosing the seed character as the widest that might actually be at the end of a line followed by space to cause word wrap. Probably "w" or "A". - not rounding up - scaling by the compression aspect ratio I'll try to come up with a new number. No problem here with having the background by default. But recognize there's a compromise between world visibility and text readability. Can't we make it possible to turn the background off for people who hate it so much that they avoid using subtitles because of it? "...visible in all circumstances" may be too high a bar. The simple implementation would be a single CVar that toggles the background on/off and possibly, conversely toggles fake drop shadows off/on.

Yes, the backing field shown, while narrower, is still a fixed width for all bark texts, so still wider than ideal for that particular phrase. The width is the minimum needed to safely accommodate subtitle lines up to 42 characters long of 12 pt Stone font.

True. It would require a modification of the engine code. Earlier this year I wrote two experimental C++ utility programs that do the required calculation, for respectively 12 pt Carleton and (scaled to 12 pt) Stone fonts. However, others have expressed distaste, on complexity grounds, to having variable-width backing fields, so I've since been restricting my advocacy to a narrower fixed-width backing field for speech-verbosity subtitles. This outlining isn't really visible in your screen shots; and I'd like to see various color-tone game locations too. I see you use the "bordercolor" attribute for your outlining. I vaguely recall there was some circa-2010 TDM "drop shadow" experiments with (I'm guessing) using this for subtitling, with the Carleton font then in use. (This was before I got involved in subtitling.) Same conclusion: a bit problematic with the given font. So that led to the translucent backing field as an reasonable approach. It would be possible to add a new unicolor font just for subtitles to TDM. There is a roadmap for this, but it's a major project, so TDM 2.13? Agreed. That was part of my motivation for wishing to narrow the width of the backing field. I'm in favor of having settings to let players have more flexibility in the subtitle presentation. That would include font color.

Just too small a gap currently between blocks, to not overlap with something. I think it's better to overlap with the subtitle it's associated with, rather than the one above. The gap could be enlarged, but then 3rd topmost block would be close to screen center vertically, blocking more of the general view. Oval could be further shrunk, but becomes less informative. I guess, with tricky programming, you could suppress the ovals when there are more than 1 blocks shown. Probably no perfect answer.

Well it should be placed above the subtitle block if possible, I think.

Looking at the code, the originals were "pm_mantle_pull 750" and "pm_mantle_pullFast 450". The new "pm_mantle_pull" value is "400". A "pm_mantle_pullFast" value of "450" would be slower than regular pull, not faster. With both being set to "400", they are at least similar. Other than that, it's subjective and the feedback from playtesters was positive. Also, referenced internally here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22256-movementcontrols-settings-in-main-menu/&do=findComment&comment=489158

Btw. there's a subtitles folder, but the only subtitle is linked to a non existing sound file. Maybe that's ok, just mentioning.

That sort of tone doesn't fly in our forums.

I would use this massive list for any fan missions, it includes campaigns too: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148090 There are a lot of Fan Missions for the picking, I myself go for the lesser known ones and the short variety, because sometimes they hide a gem or two. Just like jaxa, I'm a bit outdated after the temporal retirement, but I do remember some amazing campaigns like "The Black Frog". If you intend to play The Black Frog, you should play the first two of the L'Arsene series missions, it's how I did it myself. Also, yes, L'Arsene are a fantastic series. The first mission of L'Arsene is a "rough draft", author was a bit new to Thief level making, but still great either way, after the 3rd you will see how his skill increased by a massive amount.

OK. To confirm Libreoffice compatibility, please download one of the recent completed spreadsheets, e.g., for Critic or Manbeast (links in OP of this thread). Also, you will likely find it helpful to have such a worked example while reviewing the "Explained" doc discussed below. Assuming compatibility, I'll programmatically pre-populate a fresh spreadsheet with .ogg filenames and clip durations for "The Drunk" vocal set (in the vocals04 pk4), and DM a link for that for you. While waiting, please review these two Word docs (see links in OP): "Subtitle Style Guide - Part 1". There's a 1-page summary of main points at start. Skim the rest. "Dec 7 Update of the "Explained" Doc for Spreadsheet Template v5". This details what the two worksheets and the columns within each mean. You will start with the "Compose" worksheet; I will have already filled columns A & B, and C is auto-calculated. Since we have no pre-existing vocal text script for The Drunk, column D will be left blank (TIP: hide it), and column F will be useless. You will start filling in column E, "Tweaked Subtitle". There's lots more to say, but that's enough for now. The spreadsheet I send you will based on Barks Template v6, but it's only trivially different from v5, so the Dec 7 doc should be fine. BTW, there's more workflow that is done before/after your part. If curious or need more context, see: "June 10 Documents Explaining Workflow and Excel Spreadsheet/Template (for AverageJack)"

Unfortunately, TDM forum deletes the separator between the numbers. So I have to guess where one number ends and the next starts Also, user can rename screenshot manually, or push it through something that would rename it automatically. Thenwe won't see coordinates on screenshot address on forums.

tdm_show_viewpos cvar and screenshot_viewpos command: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22310-212-viewpos-on-player-hud-and-screenshots/

Relax @Näkki, it's great to hear you enjoyed the game. My personal expectations were just a bit different when I read the Steam page, although the various trailers should have been a warning that stealth maybe wasn't the biggest priority of the devs. From the Steam page: "Weird west legends meet eldritch horror in BLOOD WEST, an immersive stealth FPS." Also "Blood West is a stealth FPS inspired by the genre classics such as the Thief series (whose fans will be happy to hear the voice of Stephen Russell, the actor voicing the master-thief Garrett, returning here as the protagonist), S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games, or - from the contemporary catalog - Hunt: Showdown. The gameplay rewards the careful approach: scouting the area, stalking your enemies, and striking from the shadows. Can you figure out a way to clear a fort full of ghouls and monsters without raising an alarm?" From my personal experience I think the game is predominantly Hunt: Showdown, a bit of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and a very small portion Thief. Stealth is very unforgiving and makes it almost impossible early game when there are various enemies around, but hey maybe I just suck at it. I don't see Deus Ex in it, unless the skill leveling is the Deus Ex part for you and then I have to disagree with you, as that seems like the trait system in Hunt: Showdown. Edit: What I also understood from the Steam forums is that the original VA was dropped close before the release of the full version and replaced by Russell with no real explanation from the devs why this was done.

The devs didn't title this thread, and @datiswous said they're attempting to mislead people by using Russell's name and a retro style to make it resemble Thief, which is cynical. I grew up on forums like I'm sure anyone who likes a game from '98 did. I actually left the Discord immediately after joining it because it was more off-topic doom-posting than anything relevant to the mod. I thought the forums might be better, but it's mostly just grown men yelling at clouds and telling strangers how mature they are, and a few brave souls actually developing anything. Depressing place, I'll just stick to enjoying new missions every 6 months without an account.

True, but, 1. this thread is called "Western stealth FPS with Stephen Russell", and, 2. nothing you said changes anything for me. The gameplay still doesn't look like something I'd enjoy. And, if you really think this forum is cynical, then you don't visit forums much. Actually, the majority of the users are are pretty mature, unlike in other forums.

So, if I understand you, no Thief Gold FM does sound and text notifications of completed objectives? The missions in The Black Parade surely did. I'm completely confused now. I was sure that original Thief Gold had those objective complete notifications (at least the sound). Reading this thread suggests otherwise though: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132977

The subtitles of the Manbeast vocal set are now available for eventual incorporation into TDM: testSubtitlesManbeast.pk4 Vocal script author Kingsal describes these underworld dwellers as once "men of the city, now twisted into beasts by some cruel god." They "speak in a broken, almost sing-song tongue, interspersed with involuntary snorts and screeches." Variants comprise two commoners and an archer/shaman. Compared to other AI, Manbeast has far fewer voice clips. The voicing is somewhat reminiscent of Golum of Lord of the Rings. Statistics In file fm_root.subs there are 135 inlines, including: 19 with an explicit linebreak, intending 2 lines 116 without Of these, only 1 has an explicit duration extension (in the range 0.25 to 0.49, for 17 cps) There are 3 SRTs, each with 2 messages. Of the 6 total SRT messages, none have an explicit linebreak. In all, for this vocal set, there are 138 voice clips with subtitles, showing 141 messages. Corresponding Excel File ManbeastSubtitles.xlsx NEW: This is based on Version 6 of the Excel Template for TDM bark subtitles, with 2 minor bug fixes from Version 5. Change to GUI New features of testSubtitles... for TDM 2.12dev compatibility: An oval at the top edge of each subtitle shows sound source direction (which in testSubtitles... is always the statue). The width of the subtitle backing field is based on subtitle verbosity (which in testSubtitles... is always "speech"). Implementation: Override-file tdm_subtitles_common.gui, which was a customization of 2.11's file, is dropped. Its purpose is now served and enlarged by override-file tdm_subtitles_message.gui, a customization of earlier 2.12dev's file. This .gui continues to use the width-compressed Stone font.

A Problem Arises I've paused subtitling of the Lady02 vocal set, because of a problem with the voice clips described here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21741-subtitles-possibilities-beyond-211/&do=findComment&comment=490151 While a way forward is being determined, I'll work on a different vocal set. Maybe manbeast, for which Kingsal just provided me the voice script.

There's a problem with Lady02 sound clips. A number of them are untrimmed, having dead air at the end up to modulo 5 seconds. Out of 310 sound clips, counts of suspect clips are: 69 at exactly 5 seconds 15 at exactly 10 seconds 4 at higher values, modulo 5 seconds If a clip has, say, 3 seconds of dead air, I don't want to keep showing the subtitle during those 3 seconds. Solutions are: 1) trim the clips. The best solution, but a good amount of work (that I hate doing. Any volunteers?) 2) use SRT in each case to end the subtitle early. This is a fair amount of extra work for me, for those clips that otherwise would not need SRT (namely, the 5 second and some of the 10 second ones). But I'll do this if (1) and (3) seem out of reach. 3) Change the -dx command so it can take a negative value, and end the subtitle early. It would still take some effort to determine the -dx value, but less than (2), and with less file proliferation. @stgatilov, is this viable/easy? EDIT: Reported to bugtracker as https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6352