Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

A couple of suggestions for TDM/Dark Radiant


bambini
 Share

Recommended Posts

First of all, I must say I'm extremely grateful for all the hard work put in to producing TDM. It really is awesome. However, I thought I'd post to tell people about a couple of thoughts I've had on improvements for TDM/Dark Radiant. It's nothing too major, just a couple of largely aesthetic changes that I thought might make things a bit easier. It's absolutely not intended as criticism.

 

- In TDM, I felt that the arrow speed was a bit too slow and the arc a bit too steep. I've loosed a few arrows in the real world in my time and they're pretty damn fast. In the Training mission, when I was firing arrows at the targets it felt that I had to aim far too high in order to hit the more distant targets. I’d prefer it if the arrows were much faster. To be honest, I think that this is a problem with most games that involve archery. I’m probably being overly fussy.

 

- In Dark Radiant, I’ve found that when you zoom in really close it’s hard to differentiate between the edge of a brush (a black line) and the gridlines (which are grey). It’s not so much of a problem when you’re zoomed out, but it can be tricky when you’re zoomed in to make sure two brushes are aligned. I wondered if it might be useful for the lines to become thicker than the gridlines when you zoom in so that they stand out more. Alternatively, maybe if the inside of a brush was tinted light grey or something to make it stand out.

 

- Finally, I thought about something that might be quite handy that was in The Elder Scrolls editor. It’s a function in which you can select an object and at the push of a button it will “drop” to nearest horizontal surface below. So if you want a spoon on a table, you can get the spoon somewhere over the table, press the button and it will drop onto the table. Or if you want to place a person in the room, you press the button and their feet will touch the floor.

 

I don’t know how do-able these are, but anyway, those are my thoughts. What do people think?

 

 

"We were travelling in the night of first ages, of those ages that are gone, leaving hardly a sign — and no memories" - Joseph Conrad, Heart of Darkness

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- In TDM, I felt that the arrow speed was a bit too slow and the arc a bit too steep. I've loosed a few arrows in the real world in my time and they're pretty damn fast. In the Training mission, when I was firing arrows at the targets it felt that I had to aim far too high in order to hit the more distant targets. I’d prefer it if the arrows were much faster. To be honest, I think that this is a problem with most games that involve archery. I’m probably being overly fussy.

 

I think this is somewhat of a gameplay concession to allow the player to see the trajectory a bit better, without relying on blue arrow trails. ;) I don't recall precisely, but i don't think our arrows are any slower than in Thief 1/2. Could be wrong about that though.

 

- In Dark Radiant, I’ve found that when you zoom in really close it’s hard to differentiate between the edge of a brush (a black line) and the gridlines (which are grey). It’s not so much of a problem when you’re zoomed out, but it can be tricky when you’re zoomed in to make sure two brushes are aligned. I wondered if it might be useful for the lines to become thicker than the gridlines when you zoom in so that they stand out more. Alternatively, maybe if the inside of a brush was tinted light grey or something to make it stand out.

 

There are preferences within Dark Radiant to change the layout colours to your own personal preference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this is somewhat of a gameplay concession to allow the player to see the trajectory a bit better, without relying on blue arrow trails. wink.gif I don't recall precisely, but i don't think our arrows are any slower than in Thief 1/2. Could be wrong about that though.

You may be right, but it certainly feels that the arrows arc a lot more than in T1/2, even if they have the same speed. As I said, it's a continual grumble for me that arrows don't go faster in games, but I guess it's just a realism/gameplay balance.

 

There are preferences within Dark Radiant to change the layout colours to your own personal preference.
Really? I'll have to look for those. Methinks they will be very handy smile.gif

"We were travelling in the night of first ages, of those ages that are gone, leaving hardly a sign — and no memories" - Joseph Conrad, Heart of Darkness

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First time I've heard a complaint of the arrow too slow. I actually feel like they are too fast and I've heard that complaint before.

I've done a little archery, but not much so I'm not an expert. But I always really liked the feel of theif 1 & 2 arrows. Which actually must be quite slow as you can really see them fly.

Ours seem to reach the target much faster.

 

---------

I don't know if the drop to surface would work in Radiant. Deffinately a completely different editor than TES.

 

 

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think archery, and combat in general, may actually be a bit too fast-paced - while I have no complaint against them, I would not want to see them sped up any further.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First time I've heard a complaint of the arrow too slow. I actually feel like they are too fast and I've heard that complaint before.

I've done a little archery, but not much so I'm not an expert. But I always really liked the feel of theif 1 & 2 arrows. Which actually must be quite slow as you can really see them fly.

Ours seem to reach the target much faster

 

I guess it's more that arc that's the issue for me in that I feel they arc way too much. The speed becomes an issue becasue of physics: if an arrow has a faster horizontal velocity then it will arc less over a fixed distance. Of course, the laws of phsyics are all very well in the real world, but they don't necessarily apply in a game! A way to reduce the arc of an arrow without reducing its horizontal speed is to reduce the vertical velocity (i.e. the pull of gravity on the arrow). This would mean that the arrow flies at the same speed horizontally, but would arc less in the air.

 

Is it possible to adjust the effect of gravity on the arrows? Even if it is, what do people think?

Edited by bambini

"We were travelling in the night of first ages, of those ages that are gone, leaving hardly a sign — and no memories" - Joseph Conrad, Heart of Darkness

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it possible to adjust the effect of gravity on the arrows? Even if it is, what do people think?

 

I believe it's possible to adjust the effect of gravity on arrows, but I can't recall what file that would be in...or if it would need to be done in code somewhere.

 

We're open to suggestions, and of course if you can demonstrate the difference and it doesn't break the gameplay in any way, I'm sure we would consider including such a tweak.

 

I don't think we would be into making the arrow any faster though, but adjusting the arc might be considered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd also would have liked them sped up a bit to mimic the real life feeling of releasing an arrow, which is very satisfying. For visual help you could expand or change the arrow model after release to make it easier to see, mimicking arrow wobble:

When the arrow is wobbling so fast it would appear solid.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually felt that the arrows moved a good bit faster than t1/2, and had a more satisfying feel to them, but thats just me.

 

As for the 'drop' ability in DR, it would make life a whole lot better for me!, even if its just a basic entity/brush origin -> first horizontal surface, anything is better than manual! ;) I really would love to work on DR, but I have this srong dislike for gtk ;/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd also would have liked them sped up a bit to mimic the real life feeling of releasing an arrow, which is very satisfying. For visual help you could expand or change the arrow model after release to make it easier to see, mimicking arrow wobble:

 

Well, as I said it's a gameplay concession for them to move a bit slower. The arrows are already a bit bigger to allow people to see them better. There was a lot of time spent tweaking the arrows by members with experience in archery. What we settled on was a balance between reality, and ingame necessity. The arc could be looked at, but as far as speed goes I think we're pretty much set on the current settings.

 

Arrow wobble isn't even on our radar. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For every person complaining arrows are too slow, there are three or four complaining they are too fast. You can't please everyone. I think the current balance is pretty solid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, as I said it's a gameplay concession for them to move a bit slower. The arrows are already a bit bigger to allow people to see them better. There was a lot of time spent tweaking the arrows by members with experience in archery. What we settled on was a balance between reality, and ingame necessity. The arc could be looked at, but as far as speed goes I think we're pretty much set on the current settings.

 

Arrow wobble isn't even on our radar. :)

 

We've all got different radars don't we. That smilie face is heart warming.

 

@everyone else: I would guess arrow arc and speed should be pretty easily changed once found in the code if your interested.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've not seen a SINGLE POST saying it was too fast. Please point to one. :angry:

 

Where have you looked? There are TWO POSTS to that effect in this very thread. :rolleyes:

 

I think archery...may actually be a bit too fast-paced...I would not want to see them sped up any further.

 

First time I've heard a complaint of the arrow too slow. I actually feel like they are too fast and I've heard that complaint before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We've all got different radars don't we. That smilie face is heart warming.

 

 

I beg your pardon? :blink: Did I insult you? Wasn't my intention, so I'm sorry if you took it that way. I was stating the truth. Something like arrow wobble is not a gameplay concern for the mod. Why would we replicate it if the only outcome is that it would move so fast the arrow would appear solid anyway?

 

I also made it clear that we didn't choose some arbitrary numbers for the arrow speed, they were tweaked by team members who had real life experience in archery. We settled on what we have now for gameplay purposes.

 

There are team leads in place for a reason. We're not here to be 'the bad guy' so please don't paint us with that brush. Ok? It's pretty insulting. The structure was put in place to ensure we at least had a chance to focus our efforts on key issues.

 

This is the second time in a few days I've seen you misinterpret a post and get testy about it. If there's something going on in real life that is stressing you out more than usual, I can understand, I had some rather unfortunate circumstances over the last few years myself. Try to keep things in perspective though, ok? I've been here with the these guys since 2004, they're amazing people. Nobody is out to be an asshole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say that arrow wobble isn't so much of an issue. Sure it would be a nice touch, but I guess you have to draw the line somewhere in terms of how far you take realism into a game. I'd imagine it would take a fair bit of work to get arrow wobble in place, but what gains would you really get from it in terms of gameplay?

 

I'd be happy to play with the code to change the arc, while leaving the horizontal speed as it is. I'm no programmer though, so unless someone can hold my hand and walk me through it, or it's just a question of changing a couple of numbers, I'd be as useful as a chocolate teapot :)

 

 

 

 

 

"We were travelling in the night of first ages, of those ages that are gone, leaving hardly a sign — and no memories" - Joseph Conrad, Heart of Darkness

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't clear. I meant enlarging the arrow model by a factor of 2 at some point after it was released so you could see it better and lesson the need [as stated/needed by springheel] for it being so slow. A movement that fast would appear more or less solid to the human eye. If it couldn't be enlarged gradually, i'm guessing it might look odd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lesson the need [as stated/needed by springheel] for it being so slow

 

For the sake of clarity, I didn't say arrows needed to be slow. All I said was that we have received more feedback from people saying arrows are too fast than we have that they are too slow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yet i had never once seen ONE despite having read pretty much everything posted in these forums.

 

:huh:

 

Uh, did you not read the one about five posts up? The one where I posted quotes from two people in this very thread commenting that arrows are too fast? And the quote from the person who also remembers a large number of complaints to that effect in the past?

 

You act like we're trying to pull one over on you or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never said the arrows were too fast. I said they were faster than T1/2 and too fast IMO. And that I have heard that before (I am not going to search forums for you). rolleyes.gif And Springheel didn't quote me on that, or did he?

 

Now, I'm not trying to confuse you or anything.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never said the arrows were too fast. I said they were ... too fast IMO.

 

Now, I'm not trying to confuse you or anything.

 

Well, you're sure as hell confusing me. :laugh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:huh:

 

Obviously, i had read this thread and wasn't referring to it. You made claims that people on a 4 to 1 ratio had complained that arrows were to fast.

 

You want to examine this thread? Lets tally the numbers, myself and bambini are 2 for it being faster, there are 2 for it being slower, you state it is fine where it is and New Horizon describes it as a "concession". (FOR WHAT I ASK?)

 

I do not enjoy being in the company of people who say whatever it takes to get what they want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


  • Recent Status Updates

    • nbohr1more

      Anyone have any luck with light.setShader( string ) ? It seems to make whichever light you apply it to full-bright on the initial invoke?
      · 0 replies
    • thebigh

      I'm starting to think we need another mapping contest.
      · 4 replies
    • kano

      Don't you hate it when there's a quality discussion on a forum somewhere online about something, but then two disagreeing users derail and transform it into a back-and-forth poo slinging competition at one another?
      · 8 replies
    • Diego

      Oh look the status updates are back! 
      · 2 replies
    • JackFarmer

      After watching the first three and a half episodes of "The Sandman" last night, I realize once again that overly imaginative narratives are not for me. Also, the main actor looks like he has a toothache.
      Which makes me wonder, is there a Dark Mod mission with a medieval dentist?
      · 4 replies
×
×
  • Create New...