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The Modern Mod?


Stardog
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After playing Deus Ex, I wondered how much work would it be to turn TDM into a modern-style sneaker? Note: Not a Deus Ex clone in any way.

 

  • New textures/materials/models - not difficult.
  • New animations/models for characters - a lot of TDM/D3 anims would be useable.
  • New SFX.
  • Security cams would need added - just enemies that can't walk, really?
  • Laser beams that were able to be turned off - needn't be in initial release.
  • Stick with TDM's climbing/mantling.
  • Stick with TDM's body carrying/dragging.
  • Stick with TDM's inventory/weapons system - no biomods etc.
    • Stick to a few inventory objects to keep it simple:
      • Weapons
        • Silent knockout weapon (Punch/Gun Butt) - Punch already in D3.
        • Silent kill weapon (Knife)
        • Noisy kill weapon (Hand Gun) - Gun(s) already in D3.
        • Stun weapon could use a modified TDM flashbomb or something.
        • Rope gun - already in TDM.

      • Inventory Objects
        • Lockpicks - already in TDM.
        • Keycodes - TDM's keys could temporarily act as "keycodes". Proper keypads with number input could be added in later releases.
        • Hacking/Look-under-door-cam' s, etc, could be added in later releases.
        • Maps/Readables/Mines/Keys/ Torch (in D3)/Medpack (Potion)/Binoculars (Spyglass) already in TDM.

Most of the stuff seems to be there already.

 

Is there anything major I've missed? It would be a good project when some more of TDM's bugs are squashed.

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I don't think it would be difficult, most of the weapons/items can be easily modified and the code is open source, anyway.

 

However, it would be a hell lot of work!

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Yeah, I think it'd mainly just be a matter of the work involved re-integrating it back into TDM. You could also do modern "lite" (still a lot of work!) where you're using D3 textures and (non-functional) objects, reskin existing AI and maybe a few tweaks or attachments to the model, and maybe it'd be enough just to get a working gun for the player and AI, with the animations, etc.

 

Anyway, as long as the Doom3 stuff is there for the taking and a motivated person isn't scared off by the work involved, I personally think it would be pretty cool if someone worked on this (or for that matter, all kinds of variations ... medieval Japan, 1930s / Call of Cthulu style, Deus Ex style, full on Sci-fi / SS2 style, contemporary Mirror's Edge style, etc, etc.)

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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More of this stuff is already in Doom 3 than you might think (like security cams, many modern models like chairs/cups/machines/etc)

I couldn't remember if it had proper security cams. An alarm to alert the guards I guess won't be there.

 

Yeah, I think it'd mainly just be a matter of the work involved re-integrating it back into TDM. You could also do modern "lite" (still a lot of work!) where you're using D3 textures and (non-functional) objects, reskin existing AI and maybe a few tweaks or attachments to the model, and maybe it'd be enough just to get a working gun for the player and AI, with the animations, etc.

It might not take too long if the team did things that way.

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Anyway, as long as the Doom3 stuff is there for the taking and a motivated person isn't scared off by the work involved, I personally think it would be pretty cool if someone worked on this (or for that matter, all kinds of variations ... medieval Japan, 1930s / Call of Cthulu style, Deus Ex style, full on Sci-fi / SS2 style, contemporary Mirror's Edge style, etc, etc.)

 

yeah, you could go sortof Assassin's creed style, make a story about different generations of a thief family/guild :laugh: in different eras.

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  • New textures/materials/models - not difficult.
  • New animations/models for characters - a lot of TDM/D3 anims would be useable.
  • New SFX.
  • Security cams would need added - just enemies that can't walk, really?
  • Laser beams that were able to be turned off - needn't be in initial release.

.. Most of the stuff seems to be there already.

It seems to be a common assumption that creating a mod or a total conversion of an existing game just requires modeling, a few textures and (of course) new cool weapons. Needless to say, this is not the case. While all these things are necessary to create the proper mood and style, all of this is not much more than advanced concept art without the accompanying gameplay code. The slightest behaviour change of AI or inventory or HUD/menu or simple things like newly designed inventory item requires coding - I don't think people are correctly estimating the effort which needs to go into programming (not even remotely). I assume this is due to code being an "invisible" asset, you don't really notice it until it doesn't work.

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  • New textures/materials/models - not difficult.

You lost me after this line. :rolleyes:

 

Somebody call up all the game development studios in the world and tell them they can fire all but one of their artists - after all, it's not difficult work! :P

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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Interestingly enough, a year ago I stripped down the first level of doom 3 to just brushes, patches, models, and doors. (I basically removed all D3 ai, animations, cutscenes, and GUIs).

 

With some patience, I likely could have tweaked the whole map to work with TDM. There's still a lot of D3-TDM cooperation that you can use to your advantage if you want a modern-looking level.

 

(A side note: "A dark mod....mod" is precisely the way the FM system works. Each mission is a "mod" of The Dark Mod.)

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If by "tons" you mean "a few pieces of concept art and one half-finished, untextured model" then sure, most mods do create "tons" of artwork before dying. :P

 

Let me clarify my meaning: Making lots of good artwork takes a lot of time and effort. If you're willing to compromise on either quantity or quality (or both) then you can get it done a lot faster, but you run the risk of having a game that looks crap and/or repetitive.

 

What greebo said about the code is true as well.

 

You're right that starting from TDM as a base would give you a lot of stuff already. But it does sound like you're underestimating how much work would be required on top of that.

 

I don't mean to be down on your idea. If you want to have a go at making it, I'm all in favour of that. Whether you finish or not it'll be a great learning experience, and if you do finish then it sounds like it could be pretty neat. :)

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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If by "tons" you mean "a few pieces of concept art and one half-finished, untextured model" then sure, most mods do create "tons" of artwork before dying. :P

 

hahaha, you're so right. But guess what, when i saw these guys i thought that the dark mod will also suffer from this. Fortunately it doesn't

tdmod.jpg

another question: They look better than in the game ;) plus I have not seen all of them in the game, what happened to them ;)

Edited by Berny
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If by "tons" you mean "a few pieces of concept art and one half-finished, untextured model" then sure, most mods do create "tons" of artwork before dying. :P

 

Let me clarify my meaning: Making lots of good artwork takes a lot of time and effort. If you're willing to compromise on either quantity or quality (or both) then you can get it done a lot faster, but you run the risk of having a game that looks crap and/or repetitive.

 

What greebo said about the code is true as well.

 

You're right that starting from TDM as a base would give you a lot of stuff already. But it does sound like you're underestimating how much work would be required on top of that.

 

I don't mean to be down on your idea. If you want to have a go at making it, I'm all in favour of that. Whether you finish or not it'll be a great learning experience, and if you do finish then it sounds like it could be pretty neat. :)

 

Well, I think that whoever wants to make a new mod would start making (and finishing) a single map for an existing mod, they'd maybe get a better idea how much work it is..

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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On the sidenote though, I really like the Doom 3 engine. It's so versatile. I never actually did release anything due to RL taking up too much time (though my interest in modding has always been with Doom 3), but I just really like modding it. Even though I can't code to save my life, I've tinkered with the script and def files before, and suffice to say, I think they're far more versatile than almost all the other games out there. It is very flexible and powerful. Also, it uses .LWO for its models - hooray Lightwave!!! Of course, doing a DX mod using TDM as a base would still require a lot of work, but give me the Doom 3 engine over, say, any Unreal engine anytime of the day.

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I was thinking about it and I came to think about SystemShock. There was a really cool thing called "System Shock rebooted" in the making with the Doom3-engine but was shut/shot down due to legal issues. Very sad. I could only found one mod in the making and that is a remake of System Shock 1 for System Shock 2. This way there will be no legal issues and the screenshots looked very good but this is now really off-topic.

I just wanted to say that I would like a SystemShock-mod more than DeusEx, but then again, something of both...

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(hard stuff), more
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  • 2 weeks later...

I'd be very interested in a modernized Dark Mod, but I have no coding abilities. I think it'd be good to keep the thief very vulnerable, and I thought that instead of a real pistol, maybe a typical single-shot air pistol could be used - good for making noise for a distraction, or breaking lightbulbs at range, but not practical as a combat weapon.

 

For a knife, a tasteful, useful folding knife (along the lines of a Benchmade Griptilian or something) could work. Maybe we could have it be a silent kill if delivered from behind, but if attacking from the front, you should expect lots of screaming on the part of the person you're going after. And you could keep a blackjack as well, since a blackjack is a timeless apparatus for knocking people out.

 

Of course, all I can do is make suggestions - I don't really have much to offer to back them up. But hopefully someone who can likes what I've suggested!

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I don't really like the idea of just having Thief in a modern setting, I'd want it to have it's own personality and for the game to feel at home in the chosen setting / environment, which means tailor made gameplay to match the plot and character.

 

I've been harboring dreams of one day getting the chance to bring Looking Glass' last project (before closing down) to life. For those that don't know, they were working on a dark engine game set during the cuban missile crisis, called Deep Cover. I've given some thought to a story that could work with some of the locales that Deep Cover was to take place in, with a suitably dark twist to fit the spy theme.

 

The potential for a game like this would be immense, the wealth of historical reference material not to mention the incredible atmosphere of that era would make for a very rich canvas.

Edited by Midnight
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Hey, I never heard of Deep Cover. I thought LG died while working on T2 Gold and T3. So they weren´t as little (staff size I mean) as I thought. And this game reminds me of Metal Gear Solid in First Person, would´ve been a winner! (At least, I am a big fan of MGS and Splinter Cell)

-> Crisis of Capitalism

-> 9/11 Truth

->

(hard stuff), more
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