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OpenGL perf. on AMD/ATi gpu's: WIP fix.

Bikerdude

By Bikerdude
in TDM Tech Support

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lowenz

lowenz

Posted
Posted (edited)

What am I looking at here..

 

Maybe they tweaked the OpenGL rendering pipeline for new GCN GPUs (mine is an old GCN 1.0 one)

 

Anyone other than me can test 15.4 vs 15.5?

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

motorsep

motorsep

Posted
Posted

So AMD getting consistently worse when it comes to not-so-old hardware support and OpenGL. I don't quite understand what Bikerdude is hoping for with AMD, but of course there is always a place for a miracle :)

  • 4 weeks later...
lowenz

lowenz

Posted
Posted (edited)

Interesting report from my The Talos Principle installation ( http://store.steampowered.com/app/257510/ ) on the Radeon (7850) PC :D

 

EDIT

Without VSync

 

D3D9 benchmark results -
10:16:22 INF:
10:16:22 INF: Duration: 60.0 seconds (4362 frames)
10:16:22 INF: Average: 72.7 FPS (75.6 w/o extremes)
10:16:22 INF: Extremes: 116.5 max, 7.7 min
10:16:22 INF: Sections: AI=10%, physics=2%, sound=2%, scene=54%, shadows=28%, misc=5%
10:16:22 INF: Highs: 71 in 0.7 seconds (106.5 FPS)
10:16:22 INF: Lows: 318 in 6.8 seconds (47.0 FPS)
10:16:22 INF: 30-60 FPS: 13%
10:16:22 INF: > 60 FPS: 87%
D3D11 benchmark results -
10:18:02 INF:
10:18:02 INF: Duration: 60.0 seconds (4306 frames)
10:18:02 INF: Average: 71.8 FPS (74.1 w/o extremes)
10:18:02 INF: Extremes: 126.0 max, 7.6 min
10:18:02 INF: Sections: AI=10%, physics=2%, sound=2%, scene=56%, shadows=26%, misc=5%
10:18:02 INF: Highs: 98 in 1.0 seconds (102.6 FPS)
10:18:02 INF: Lows: 310 in 6.5 seconds (48.0 FPS)
10:18:02 INF: 30-60 FPS: 14%
10:18:02 INF: > 60 FPS: 86%
OpenGL benchmark results -
10:19:52 INF:
10:19:52 INF: Duration: 59.2 seconds (2545 frames)
10:19:52 INF: Average: 43.0 FPS (46.0 w/o extremes)
10:19:52 INF: Extremes: 86.9 max, 4.7 min
10:19:52 INF: Sections: AI=6%, physics=1%, sound=2%, scene=63%, shadows=25%, misc=3%
10:19:52 INF: Highs: 40 in 0.5 seconds (82.6 FPS)
10:19:52 INF: Lows: 156 in 7.7 seconds (20.3 FPS)
10:19:52 INF: < 20 FPS: 2%
10:19:52 INF: 20-30 FPS: 5%
10:19:52 INF: 30-60 FPS: 67%
10:19:52 INF: > 60 FPS: 26%
Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

lowenz

lowenz

Posted
Posted

And same settings with a GeForce 750 Ti

 

D3D9 benchmark results -
12:22:28 INF:
12:22:28 INF: Duration: 60.0 seconds (3244 frames)
12:22:28 INF: Average: 54.1 FPS (55.3 w/o extremes)
12:22:28 INF: Extremes: 100.3 max, 9.7 min
12:22:28 INF: Sections: AI=8%, physics=1%, sound=2%, scene=65%, shadows=21%, misc=4%
12:22:28 INF: Highs: 265 in 3.7 seconds (71.5 FPS)
12:22:28 INF: Lows: 420 in 10.0 seconds (42.0 FPS)
12:22:28 INF: 30-60 FPS: 73%
12:22:28 INF: > 60 FPS: 26%

 

D3D11 benchmark results -
12:24:53 INF:
12:24:53 INF: Duration: 60.0 seconds (3585 frames)
12:24:53 INF: Average: 59.8 FPS (60.9 w/o extremes)
12:24:53 INF: Extremes: 101.2 max, 27.1 min
12:24:53 INF: Sections: AI=8%, physics=1%, sound=2%, scene=63%, shadows=21%, misc=4%
12:24:53 INF: Highs: 580 in 7.7 seconds (75.3 FPS)
12:24:53 INF: Lows: 665 in 13.9 seconds (48.0 FPS)
12:24:53 INF: 30-60 FPS: 44%
12:24:53 INF: > 60 FPS: 56%

 

OpenGL benchmark results -
12:27:04 INF:
12:27:04 INF: Duration: 57.4 seconds (2401 frames)
12:27:04 INF: Average: 41.9 FPS (45.1 w/o extremes)
12:27:04 INF: Extremes: 100.6 max, 2.9 min
12:27:04 INF: Sections: AI=6%, physics=1%, sound=2%, scene=70%, shadows=19%, misc=3%
12:27:04 INF: Highs: 1 in 0.0 seconds (100.6 FPS)
12:27:04 INF: Lows: 109 in 6.5 seconds (16.7 FPS)
12:27:04 INF: < 20 FPS: 1%
12:27:04 INF: 20-30 FPS: 8%
12:27:04 INF: 30-60 FPS: 76%
12:27:04 INF: > 60 FPS: 15%

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

lowenz

lowenz

Posted
Posted (edited)

So here's the performance hit on OpenGL!

 

AMD

 

*D3D9->OpenGL - (72.7-43)/72.7=40%

*D3D11->OpenGL - (71.8-43)/71.8=40%

 

NVidia

 

*D3D9->OpenGL - (54.1-41.9)/54.1=22%

*D3D11->OpenGL - (59.8-41.9)/59.8=29%

 

 

AMD must really work hard on the OpenGL side :D

And the Radeon 7850 has the same absolute OpenGL performance of the GeForce 750 Ti (40 FPS)

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

lowenz

lowenz

Posted
Posted (edited)

Does it mean that AMD 7850 just a crappy GPU and R9 line is better ?

No! The GPU is good (see the brilliant D3D absolute performance) but OpenGL support is crappy compared to NV :D

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

HMart

HMart

Posted
Posted

So here's the performance hit on OpenGL!

 

AMD

 

*D3D9->OpenGL - (72.7-43)/72.7=40%

*D3D11->OpenGL - (71.8-43)/71.8=40%

 

NVidia

 

*D3D9->OpenGL - (54.1-41.9)/54.1=22%

*D3D11->OpenGL - (59.8-41.9)/59.8=29%

 

 

AMD must really work hard on the OpenGL side :D

And the Radeon 7850 has the same absolute OpenGL performance of the GeForce 750 Ti (40 FPS)

 

This will not affect TDM but i bet that on Vulkan (the new OpenGL) AMD will be as good as Nvidia (or better), why, because Vulkan was made from Mantle the AMD API.

7upMan

7upMan

Posted
Posted

 

This will not affect TDM but i bet that on Vulkan (the new OpenGL) AMD will be as good as Nvidia (or better), why, because Vulkan was made from Mantle the AMD API.

 

Or rather with the Mantle API in mind. After all, DirectX 12 follows the direction of Mantle as well, which means less overhead and more fps.

My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

lowenz

lowenz

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yeah but this is OpenGL 2.1 (!!!! -> http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Talos_Principle ) and the the performance is terrible (40% is the degradation percentage :P , NVidia is only at 25-30% )

 

P.S.: Yes, it's really OpenGL 2.1, it can look majestic (take a look to Talos screenshots).

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

HMart

HMart

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Or rather with the Mantle API in mind. After all, DirectX 12 follows the direction of Mantle as well, which means less overhead and more fps.

 

No AMD gave mantle to the OpenGL guys so they didn't add to start from scratch, in a sense Vulkan IS Mantle or at least Mantle+.

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2894036/mantle-is-a-vulkan-amds-dead-graphics-api-rises-from-the-ashes-as-opengls-successor.html

 

Yeah but this is OpenGL 2.1 (!!!! -> http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Talos_Principle) and the the performance is terrible (40% is the degradation percentage :P , NVidia is only at 25-30% )
P.S.: Yes, it's really OpenGL 2.1, it can look majestic (take a look to Talos screenshots).
I don't think The Talos principle runs on OGL 2.1 on windows, i'm sure it is D3D 11.
Edited by HMart
lowenz

lowenz

Posted
Posted (edited)

I don't think The Talos principle runs on OGL 2.1 on windows, i'm sure it is D3D 11.

 

You can select the OGL rendering path on Windows too (see my tests) and the devs say it's OGL 2.1 :)

 

Astonishing yield!

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

7upMan

7upMan

Posted
Posted

No AMD gave mantle to the OpenGL guys so they didn't add to start from scratch, in a sense Vulkan IS Mantle or at least Mantle+.

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2894036/mantle-is-a-vulkan-amds-dead-graphics-api-rises-from-the-ashes-as-opengls-successor.html

 

Well, I think this is actually good news. My dear hope is that no-one will be using DX12 for the simple fact that most gamers still use Windows 7 (which will not get an update), and also because of the interoperability of OGL/Vulcan. After all, why go to the trouble of developing two rendering paths of one is not only sufficient but also has no performance penalties?

My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

HMart

HMart

Posted
Posted

 

Well, I think this is actually good news. My dear hope is that no-one will be using DX12 for the simple fact that most gamers still use Windows 7 (which will not get an update), and also because of the interoperability of OGL/Vulcan. After all, why go to the trouble of developing two rendering paths of one is not only sufficient but also has no performance penalties?

Yes i concur but we all know how microsoft has deep pockets, they can just pay some developers to use Dx12, they also have Xbox one so developers wanting to support it don't have other option but use dx12, so for windows and Xbox exclusives you will see many dx12 games, and because not all GPU's support dx12 and Vulkan, we will see many games still supporting dx11 and OpenGL.

 

In reality this will be a nightmare for many game engine and GPU's drivers developers, in the old days they only add to support dx10/11 or OpenGL, now they will have to support dx11, dx12, OpenGL, Vulkan and the Apple graphics API Metal, i really pity them.

  • 3 months later...
Xarg

Xarg

Posted
Posted

Yes i concur but we all know how microsoft has deep pockets, they can just pay some developers to use Dx12, they also have Xbox one so developers wanting to support it don't have other option but use dx12, so for windows and Xbox exclusives you will see many dx12 games, and because not all GPU's support dx12 and Vulkan, we will see many games still supporting dx11 and OpenGL.

 

From memory, the xbox and ps4 are both using HD7xxx series gpu's, so neither of the next gen consoles will have dx12 either, unless they release a refresh of the consoles with the newer AMD hardware. The AMD page for the 7800 series says direct x 11.2

Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600K @ 3.4ghz stock clocks
8gb Kingston 1600mhz CL8 XMP RAM stock frequency
Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB FLeX GHz Edition @ stock @ 1920x1080

  • 2 months later...
lowenz

lowenz

Posted
Posted (edited)

Will test your new RC.....NOW :D

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

lowenz

lowenz

Posted
Posted (edited)

Dhewm 3 1.4.1



Radeon HD 7850 (GPU @1050 MHz ) - Win 7 64


dhewm3_2016_01_07_23_47_23_472.png


GeForce GTX 750 Ti (GPU @1300 MHz ) - Win 10 64


dhewm3_2016_01_07_23_47_13_700.png



See the different GPU utilisation.


Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

lowenz

lowenz

Posted
Posted

It's really interesting, it seems that the OGL driver of AMD can't process (won't process?) the scene using all the GPU resources:

 

GeForce

Ge_Force.png
Radeon
Radeon.png

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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