AI reactions and reasonable doubt

[teh_saccade 233]

I'd say this is what distraction items are for - throwing bottles, shooting a broadhead into a wall (noisemakers are duff - their sound dampens through visportals - practically useless). Idk why to step into the light to cross an area when you know AI are looking... If you didn't spot the AI then respond, don't reload - run, hide, distract, escape. Not sure why "don't change playstyle, change game" is the solution.

Additionally, if you get spotted - why is this cause for a reload? If the mission has a "don't be spotted" objective, it's a good idea to open it up in DR and make that option, beacuse it's just dumb - all those flashbombs, health potions, hiding places and secretive, dark areas that FM makers plan in for the player to "escape" are there for a reason.

I would recommend not playing with the light-gem and turning up the AI difficulty a bit. Especially lockpicking - that can lead to some very tense situations, especially if the door is in a noisy area with a few patrols.

Each to their own I guess.

 

// also, you're using some older maps from previous versions - there's always a few changes and there are also always a few map bugs. There's one FM where there's a tiny gap in a wall and the AI can hear through it perfectly. Also - who plays on "nearly blind"..?

Edited April 12, 2019 by teh_saccade

[grayman 2764]

noisemakers are duff - their sound dampens through visportals - practically useless

 

Do you have an example of this? Visportals don't occlude sound unless the mission author has set them up to do so. If you have an example, please file a bugtracker issue.

[OrbWeaver 456]

I finally got a chance to actually test this in game (after my Thief 4 playthrough permanently ended because the heap of junk can't load chapter 6 without immediately crashing to desktop).

 

I started the default "Mission 1" which ships with the game. Jumped down into the first street with the guards, noticed that the light gem never seems to reach full darkness even in shadow (maybe ambient light related?). Walked across the road some distance from the guards, and without warning the lightgem goes to almost full brightness despite there being no obvious patch of light on the ground. Within a second or two I'm being charged by a guard whose vocal barks I couldn't even hear until he's practically on top of me with his sword drawn.

 

I suspect this might be an unpopular suggestion because it deviates from the original games, but aside from the reaction time which is already under investigation, I would definitely support the addition of audio cues (optional, of course) to indicate when an NPC was becoming suspicious or had been alerted. At the moment all we have are the vocal barks which are almost inaudible if the suspicious guard is some distance away.

[grayman 2764]

If the audio cues that are currently in the game when the AI switches from one Alert Index to the next are of insufficient volume to hear at greater distances, what audio cues did you have in mind that would be heard at the greater distances?

[OrbWeaver 456]

If the audio cues that are currently in the game when the AI switches from one Alert Index to the next are of insufficient volume to hear at greater distances, what audio cues did you have in mind that would be heard at the greater distances?

 

I mean extra-diegetic or musical audio cues that are audible to the player only, rather than emitted from a particular point in the game world. If these are well produced they can be very useful without breaking immersion, since they largely blend into the background music but give the player crucial information.

 

For example, in Thief 4 there's a sort of orchestral crash when you get spotted, and a tension-building sound when NPCs are getting close to spotting you but haven't yet. In Sniper Elite 4 there is a sort of echoey steam-train whistle when somebody spots you, and a metallic scraping when you hide in a bush and become invisible (which are particularly useful in Authentic mode where there is no HUD).

 

I wouldn't go as far as adding full-blown "combat music" (which both of the above games have), since that's probably taking things too far.

[grayman 2764]

I committed changes to the trunk for the adjusted visibility factors.

 

See the last note in this issue.

[Springheel 4436]

I'll record my objection to any kind of meta-alarm that tells the player whether they have been spotted or not.

 

 

 

If the player is being lit up to "almost full brightness" without an obvious light source, that is a map issue that should be corrected.

 

Also, if a guard can get to you in a second or two but you couldn't hear his vocal barks, that also suggests a bug of some kind.

[New Horizon 471]

I'll record my objection to any kind of meta-alarm that tells the player whether they have been spotted or not.

 

 

I'll second that.

[VanishedOne 481]

While it might be interesting for a mapper to override the location ambient if any AI in the location are searching, as a general system I think non-bark audio cues would run into problems: e.g. if an AI finding a body on the other side of the map triggers feedback that's just going to confuse the player.

[zergrush 48]

I committed changes to the trunk for the adjusted visibility factors.

 

See the last note in this issue.

 

Thanks for addressing this so fast, Grayman.

 

Since I run GNU/Linux myself, I would like to ask anyone who has access to the windows builds to record a video of the changes on all the difficulties, so we can have a good look at it.

Edited April 14, 2019 by zergrush

[RPGista 600]

Yes, thanks Grayman, for this. Really nice work.