Menu/Gui Concepts (Loading/Startup)

[sparhawk]

IMO the scene should be rather simple. So showing some gears and clocks would be ok, but I don't think we should use some AI for the loading screen.

[drumple]

actually.. i think it would be very simple to make a decent clock like that, it looks complicated.. but to get

it working in a loading gui is a simple task. md5's are not needed, nor is any type of animated mesh, just

simple models and let the gui do the rest. im making a mock up of one right now to see how it will work,

and it looks very promising. having the small hand of the clock rotate once to complete the loading is

basicly one variable added to its windowdef.

 

i'll see what i can put together for a test and add a link to download it. to make it work with any map you

just rename the gui "mymap.gui" and place it in the guis/map folder.

 

i'll see what i can slap together for the test and get a link here when i can.

[pakmannen]

So you mean it's essentially a combo of the options I listed? You take a model, and rotate it with GUI code? What are the advantages of using a model over a simple image and rotate it the same way?

[drumple]

So you mean it's essentially a combo of the options I listed? You take a model, and rotate it with GUI code? What are the advantages of using a model over a simple image and rotate it the same way?

 

actually, they can be virtually the same.. with the lighting and normal maps they look almost identical. a while

back i modeled up a gear and used just the normal map from it on a flat 2 poly mesh and rotated that, it looked

real good. its easier to rotate the model with the gui code as you can make gears mesh perfectly and in unison

 

but that only looks good if players vidcards can do perpixel lighting and use normal maps. otherwise it looks

rather plain and shabby. but, you could also just make decent gear textures, say 5.. and apply those to a

2 poly mesh and rotate those and it would look real nice, and thats what im hoping we will all decide upon.

 

im not shure if images alone can be rotated, so far i have not seen that done in the guis, but a simple 2 poly

.ase can, and its basicly the same thing, plus the benifit of it scaling proper will make it look better over

standard gui image scaling which can be a bear to deal with.

 

 

EDIT:

i was thinking of a 3d clockring with the inner workings, here is the clockring style i had in mind, though it

isnt textured yet.

 

 

the only other benifit to this of course is that it wont look so 2d.. instead it will look like its popping out at

you.

[oDDity]

Okey, so animation works. Now, what are the advantages/disadvantages with:

Using an animated (md5..?) 3D model. How detailed can it get. Does it look out of place on a 2D parchment background etc. @Oddity: How much work are we looking at if we go this way?

 

There's really no work at all involved in modeling those clock innards.

What about the lighting though, how does that work in the GUI?

I think it would look much better to model and render it to video with soft shadows, than have the models actually on the screen with hard doom shadows..

If stuttering in the live clock model doesn't matter, then neither will stuttering in the clock video.

[drumple]

the lighting can be tricky, im not shure if it can light more than 1 model at a time, it would look better as a roq

but then im not shure if you can control the individual frame rates, ie.. play 1 frame where you want...

 

however.. you wouldnt really need that much control thinking about it... a decent clock video with the gears

moving and soft shadows, and then a single modeled clock hand to make the 1 revolution from 0-100%

loading would be perfect.

 

as for the stuttering, im kind of hoping it does.. since im used to it seeing that happen in the t1/t2 loading

screens with their small clock faces spinning... but if it works out smooth, thats no problem.. either way..

 

im shure the roq would not stutter.. just any model linked to the loading_gui might, but thats an easy test..

just load a huge doom3 level and see how the loading bar moves.. if it transitions from 0 to 100 smoothly

or stops once and a while.

[pakmannen]

im not shure if images alone can be rotated, so far i have not seen that done in the guis, but a simple 2 poly

.ase can, and its basicly the same thing, plus the benifit of it scaling proper will make it look better over

standard gui image scaling which can be a bear to deal with.

I'm pretty sure images (or window defs I think they are called, right?) can be rotated. At least I think that's what Gildoran did when he showed me an ingame menu, featuring the clock rotating.

[drumple]

they might be, i know you can do it for models.. maybe the same gui parm will work on images.

[drumple]

k, loading hand test here.. its for the hauntcity map, so it should work ok. all it will do is show a loading hand

rotating around the clock while it loads.. no new clock stuff, its the same background image. just a test

 

hauntcity loading gui test

[Springheel]

Just so I'm clear, our loading screen is for replacing the mars picture during the loading of the game, in addition to loading individual maps? FM authors can replace the loading screens for their maps if they want, but ours would always be seen when starting the game.

[drumple]

oh.. that loading screen...

lol

 

i thought we were working on the map loading screen at the moment...

 

but yeah.. the objective is to create a whole new hud that replaces the d3 one, piece by piece..

 

im looking into the map loading screen at the moment and getting that done, since its the quickest one to do

at the moment.

[god_is_my_goldfish]

Heh heh, I think I've posted this link around ten times. This is the tool used for those videos. Roq format.

 

ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/quake3/tools/roq.zip

 

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question: can we use video textures for loading screens?

[sparhawk]

however.. you wouldnt really need that much control thinking about it... a decent clock video with the gears

moving and soft shadows, and then a single modeled clock hand to make the 1 revolution from 0-100%

loading would be perfect.

 

I hope you make multiple gears, levers and ropes and such, because one single clock would be looking quite boring.

[sparhawk]

but yeah.. the objective is to create a whole new hud that replaces the d3 one, piece by piece..

 

I'm not sure, but I think the very first startup video (with the Id logo) can not be replaced. Everything else should definitely be accessible. Or maybe we have to replace just a AVI somewhere.

[sparhawk]

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question: can we use video textures for loading screens?

 

Why should we NOT be able to?

[drumple]

i see no reason why roq vid's cant be used, they are used in the pda gui's afterall.

 

im very optimistic that the modeled up clock will look pretty good when its all combined and the parts

are moving, but there is still some space around it that stuff can be added to.. perhaps if it were made to

look like the parchment area is flat on a desk, and the clock in the middle, then off to either side there could

be.. say some arrows laying down on one side.. and the other.. i dunno.. something.. maybe a corner of a

map.. but the area up top above the clock would be a good area to add some text...

 

and by replacing the d3 gui, i meant the one currently used by the darkmod, the d3 one of course should not

be altered.

[oDDity]

It's only a loading screen, so keep it simple, just the prerednmered clock video in the middle, a rotating second hand model, which lights up the outsdie ring as it rotates, and maybe some overlayed black silhoiuette of some symbol or important object or landmark from the upcoming level.

[New Horizon]

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question: can we use video textures for loading screens?

 

 

Yes, we can. That's why I keep posting the bloody thing.

[SneaksieDave]

Devil's advocate: does it make sense that it be a clock, and not some kind of pressure valve, gear, machineworks, etc? Clock hands don't tend to stutter, freeze, jump forward, freeze again... the way the loading process does. It leaves the door open for people to think, "yeah, real good clock there, TEE-DEE-EMM. Sure isn't Swiss!"

 

I see no reason why, if it is to be a clock, it can't just show real seconds moving along, and screw the loading progress - it becomes a timer ("this mission takes 17 seconds to load on my system..") - or represent it in another way, perhaps a side gear or another dial on the front, or something.

 

Either way, only the first load in Doom3 takes a long time. Reloads of the same level after that are over in a matter of very few seconds, even on a slow machine.

[Springheel]

perhaps if it were made to

look like the parchment area is flat on a desk, and the clock in the middle, then off to either side there could

be.. say some arrows laying down on one side.. and the other.. i dunno.. something.. maybe a corner of a

map.. but the area up top above the clock would be a good area to add some text...

 

I don't know why there's talk of adding more things to the side. We already have plenty of things going on around the edges. It makes me think people are talking about the wrong image or something. Other than figuring out how to animate the clock, the only remaining design decision is how to do the title.

 

I don't think the second hand has to be tied to anything either, but keep in mind this was originally intended as the starting load screen (that has no progress indicator). No reason we can't leave it in as a default mission load screen, but that's not the original intent.

[New Horizon]

A pressure guage would make sense, more so than a clock perhaps.

[pakmannen]

Yes, people people, read the title ok? This is the STARTUP screen we're talking about. It's still going to be the default mission loading screen as well, if the FM author doesn't override it. I see no reason why it shouldn't be a clock, since we're talking about TIME here (loading), not how much pressure there is in a tank.

 

Can Gildoran confirm if you can rotate still images? I have yet to hear a good reason for using a 3D model over still images (or a roq video).

 

@Spring: Did you manage to upload the psd yet?

[oDDity]

If it's only for the startup screen, there's no need for a clock or any animation.

[Springheel]

@Spring: Did you manage to upload the psd yet?

 

I still can't access the ftp site for some reason. Do you want me to email it to you?

[Gildoran]

Yes, you can easily rotate images using either the GUI or (my personal preference) animated materials. There's a LOT of things you can do with animated materials.