Mostly About Swordfight

[mike mayday]

Hi there, a big fan speaking.

I was wondering about the swordfight method you've implemented. I really enjoyed the one used in T1 and T2 (much more fun than the simple clicking used in TDS), it was actually one of the best I've encountered(well, Die by the Sword was pretty good too but it was quite difficult to control). I really hope this is the method you're gonna be using.

 

Another thing is the case of the shadow visible to the AI, that would have been most wonderful. I know some of the reasons you're afraid of implementing it is playability problems... how about adding another, small visibility gem for it? (and perhaps some other things, like standing in shadows with a bright area in the background -if that ever gets implemented)

 

Ok, one more thing that came to my mind is the matter of AI waking up after being BJ'd. First off, I don't think it would make the game a lot harder, mostly because it would take roughly an hour for the person to wake up AND you could introduce tying NPCs up and gagging them so they can't get up or shout to call for help. As for natural standing up, you could divide it into two steps: first one is moving the ragdoll into a straight lying-on-the-back position and then play an animation of getting up from there (I did a short test on it in Blender and it looks quite natural to me).

 

You all seem to be doing a great job anyway, keep up with it!

Edited June 24, 2006 by mike mayday

[mike mayday]

If anything else fails, I'd just like to know about the swordfight: is it like in T1&2 or DS?

[Gildoran]

We'd like to have T1/T2 style sword-fights, but there's a lot of other very important things that still need to be coded or bugfixed, so melee combat isn't high on our list of priorities right now. My understanding is there's a good chance it will be in the first release, but even if it isn't, I'm sure it will eventually be in an official TDM release.

[woah]

Thief 2's sword fighting system was genius. The collision was impeccably accurate.

 

After playing Thief 2, I had always longed for a first person game wherein one would--alongside many others--fight in epic medieval battles, with swords and shields, and bows and axes (Though, I am not too knowledgable of the medieval time period, but I assume this is when such battles took place). The game would use an extension to Thief 2's sword fighting system, in that one would have the capacity to swing the sword any direction they pleased by pressing the primary attack and swinging the mouse in the intended direction (Of course it would need to be more complicated than that, but this is the basic premise). I'm not sure why a first person game like this has not emerged yet.

 

How did Thief's sword play system work from a technological standpoint?

[SneaksieDave]

You can do first person in Mount & Blade...

[mike mayday]

Thief's swordplay was pretty simple: holding the mouse button made Garret extend his arm left or right, depending on the position of the enemy (so that the sword was closer to him) and releasing the button made him swing. My idea of expanding this system is as follows:

 

1)Hold the LMB

2)Swing the mouse left, right or up (this makes Garret extend his arm appropriately)

3)Release the mouse button

 

And then optionally:

 

4)Swing the mouse in the same direction as the sword goes

5)Press the LMB as soon as the swing is over (requires some good reflexes from the player)- this "intercepts" the swing allowing you to once again quickly...

6)...release the LMB and swing the sword in the opposite direction.

 

If this is possible to implement in DM (alongside with some nice collision detection), I'm going to drop out of school and devote my life to developing DM missions.

[Ishtvan]

If this is possible to implement in DM (alongside with some nice collision detection), I'm going to drop out of school and devote my life to developing DM missions.

 

Considering that we have SDK access to all the physics and melee combat code, any variation on melee combat is definitely possible. It's just a matter of how much time it would take. I wouldn't drop out of school though, Mr. T wouldn't like that.

[mike mayday]

Mr.T pities the foo who drops out of school.

[ZylonBane]

There is only one thing I can say with absolute certainty--

 

I have no idea what mike mayday's avatar is supposed to be, but I can't even look at it without wanting to shoot it between those big googly eyes and then shove the corpse into a wood chipper.

[Gildoran]

I'll bet it's a gobin.

[mike mayday]

Well, I take that as a compliment, ZylonBane

You can see more of him on my website if you really hate him so much.

[Hewer]

I recognize your avatar, having seen it on the elYsuin forums (now Blender Artists Forums), but I don't see any links here to your website for our dear old ZB to look up.

[mike mayday]

Hey Hewer! Wow, somebody recognizes me! The internet is such a small place (or maybe I'm famous ;P ).

 

The Linky is in my profile but here it is anyway (I was afraid that sitewhoring is frowned upon here): http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl

[Hewer]

Well, that's the thing- I can't see it in your profile...

 

it says Homepage: no information

Edited June 26, 2006 by Hewer

[NeonsStyle]

We'd like to have T1/T2 style sword-fights, but there's a lot of other very important things that still need to be coded or bugfixed, so melee combat isn't high on our list of priorities right now. My understanding is there's a good chance it will be in the first release, but even if it isn't, I'm sure it will eventually be in an official TDM release.

 

You too huh? I've dreamed of that for ages... oh oh oh... two lines of fps armies facing up against each other.. oooo the mayhem... the blood.. the fun lol..

 

Actually, THE best sword routine I've ever seen in a game without a doubt, was that of Jedi Outcast. It was perfectly predictable, and allowed creative use of the sword, with thrust, parry, jab etc.. I'd wet myself if TDM had a sword play feature like that, instead of the usual click/hit method. Thief was alot better than thievery, least you coult control what side you hit. But Jedi Outcase, gave you a full swordsmans skills.

 

TDM, please, have a look at it b4 u code the sword.

 

 

Venus

[Domarius]

Well I'm going to check out that game.

[Dram]

Yeah, Jedi Outcast was a good game, the swordfighting was really fun, especially with g_dismemberment 9 hehe. Bit gross, but much more like a lightsabre is apparently meant to be, and much harder.

 

Though it was still hack and slash and hope that you manage to clip the other's sabre before he clips you. Personally the best swordfighting I've ever seen in a game is still by far Redguard.

[Komag]

I think Gothic 2 has great swordfighting, once you really learn how it works with the controls and timing

[Vadrosaul]

Agreed on Jedi Outcast. The character movement was excellent as well, highlighting a Jedi's agility, allowing him to bank off walls and such.

[NeonsStyle]

Yeah, Jedi Outcast was a good game, the swordfighting was really fun, especially with g_dismemberment 9 hehe. Bit gross, but much more like a lightsabre is apparently meant to be, and much harder.

 

Though it was still hack and slash and hope that you manage to clip the other's sabre before he clips you. Personally the best swordfighting I've ever seen in a game is still by far Redguard.

 

Was there any other way to have it? lol It made it alot easier slipping into 3rd person for sword fights; something I was reluctant to do, being a devoted FPS player. But in that game, it worked as it should.

 

Those others sounds cool... wouldn't mind checking them out.

 

 

Venus

[kohan69]

I'd like to contribute a thought to swordfight:

 

If, by chance player hits hand of npc (especially with no hand armor) the npc should drop the weapon than either pick it up or run, depending on the vicinity of the player to the weapon.

 

And of course, same for the player

[ZylonBane]

Let me be the first to say, that would infinitely suck. A pox on you.

[Komag]

I would say that MIGHT suck (but not infinitely), but it might be cool.

[demagogue]

Not for the PC, it wouldn't. There are so many variables of trouble to try to pick it up mid-fight -- all the problems of self-dropping a sword multiplied by 10.

 

And it would effectively render bad-guy AI into (temporary?) civilians, which could raise all sorts of hairy problems.

 

One major set of problems would be trying to script or foresee every possible place a weapon could fall to ... like if you're on a bridge and it falls into the water. Now the PC loses his sword for the entire game without consent, and the AI would be thrown into M.O.-limbo.

 

I could think of *other* types of games where it might fit, like a fencing simulator or something, but not this one IMO.

Edited September 27, 2006 by demagogue

[RandomRansom]

I apologize in advance if this has already been addressed and determined, but I have some training in swordplay. Mostly ninjutsu stuff (which may not apply). But if stealth is involved, then neato ninja moves can be fun to implement. Basic deflect and use of the opponents physics against them. Deflect an over the head swing away from your body (allowing opponent to go off balance forward) as you take a step to one side and you then do a semi-roundhouse swing to decapitate the opponent as they keep moving past you.

 

Then there's fun stuff to use with different ways of holding the blade... but both of these are used with single edged oriental blades: ninja to, samurai sword, katana, etc.

 

Just thought I'd add in my useless information for the day.

 

Attrectare formositatem atque venustatem egeo.

 

~V

 

"I have your eraser! If you ever want to see it again, you'll do as I say." -- Random Ransom