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Exciting Possibility.


pataran
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Hey Dark Mod team, I have some cool news that started in my texture problem thread. Because of the high quality of the textures I bought over 100+ European textures from these guys and let me tell you WOW they are awesome. They bring a game to nearly current gen status and have tons of variation. Beautiful multicolored tiles, bump mapped plaster, normal mapped ready bricks, and cobblestone. I read my agreement license and it says that the texture belong for my personal use for my multimedia projects. But anyway I won't say the price but it cost a good chunk. I even got these awesome high rez sky photos for skyboxes.

I've been fooling with the textures trying to get some in the editor and many are in with working normal maps, however I'm a complete noob at texturing and am not sure how to get the best effects out of these images I've been given. As well as the formating probs and dds. problems in the future, I could give it to you guys so it works for everyone. So what I'm getting at is can I donate these textures to darkmod? Lets say for my license every map you guys make you put me in as co author does this keep the team within the bounds of the license?

I'll show you a pic of just 2 of these textures at work as well as a portion of the texture files.

Can you imagine the overhaul and extra life it would put into our game? PM me if the team is interested. I don't wanna hog these beauties from other mappers who want beautiful tiles and variation.

post-2316-1227548741_thumb.jpg

post-2316-1227548995_thumb.jpg

post-2316-1227549012_thumb.jpg

post-2316-1227549028_thumb.jpg

post-2316-1227549047_thumb.jpg

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My guess is that it might raise legal issues.

 

'Multimedia' I belive would be more like video (visual/sound combo). If you used them in 3d and made a video or even rendered pics then other people could SEE them, but not actually USE them.

 

If we released them they would basically become open source to anyone who uses or DL's Darkmod. Someone could DL Darkmod, use them in Thief3 and we'd have no control, even if they used your name, it's not your artwork.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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My guess is that it might raise legal issues.

 

'Multimedia' I belive would be more like video (visual/sound combo). If you used them in 3d and made a video or even rendered pics then other people could SEE them, but not actually USE them.

 

If we released them they would basically become open source to anyone who uses or DL's Darkmod. Someone could DL Darkmod, use them in Thief3 and we'd have no control, even if they used your name, it's not your artwork.

 

No, it also says for video game design, is it possible to lock the map files so no one can access? Maybe select members can use them.

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Well, it would probably be best to post the full contents of the agreement so we could read it.

 

As far as I know there is no way to 'lock' the contents. All the textures used (TGA,DDS, etc...) can be opened by many programs.

 

Not sure if one of our programmers could make a 'new file type' that only we could open. Still, the whole purpose of the DarkMod is to make an open toolset that everyone can use to make missions with. While it would be nice for use IF we made a campaign, I still don't think we could release the textures for everyone/anyone to use.

 

More likely a 'locked format' would be nice for you to release a personal mission with extra content that wasn't entirely Darkmod dependent.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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No, it also says for video game design, is it possible to lock the map files so no one can access? Maybe select members can use them.

 

I'm pretty sure that agreement doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

Locking the maps files is a no-no for Dark Mod. This is a community toolset. If we were to do what you are thinking, then you wouldn't have a dark mod tool kit to use right now.

 

Where is the website for these textures, pm me or one of the other members a copy of the agreement so we can read it.

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We actually have some of those textures already. I'd be curious to know who is selling them.

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We actually have some of those textures already. I'd be curious to know who is selling them.

 

Those textures you see in the pic aren't all the high rez ones. Only the two standing out are the high rez(brick and ceiling).

 

Now if you mean in the browser pics then I have no clue, that would be wierd 0_o.

 

The site is textureworld.com

 

Here is another pic and a comparison shot

post-2316-1227567527_thumb.jpg

post-2316-1227567551_thumb.jpg

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Hot damn those are sweet!

|=-=------=-=|

happycheeze.deviantart.com

 

Moddb

 

Gamers Outreach, a nonprofit that uses videogames to raise money for chairty.

|=-=------=-=|

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OK, so the licence agreement is at http://www.textureworld.com/About_Texture_...cense_Agreement

 

Here's the relevant paragraph (emphasis added):

 

2. Usage Rights. The images and other content in this Ransom Group texture library are copyrighted by Ransom Group and Ransom Group, Inc. In purchasing this library, you have purchased a license to use the images. This license allows the registered user to use the images in their own creations as part of a graphic piece for distribution, broadcast, or performance wherein the creation does not use any of the images or derivatives as the primary source of the creations value (such as a textures, 3D model, backgrounds, or other clipart or clipmedia collection). The images or its derivatives may not be offered for hire, or duplicated or manipulated for resale or redistribution in the form of a collection or library, (such as a media library, reproduction art, or stock design). You must be the sole purchaser and have gone through the official purchase process, with registration, to be considered a registered user. Non-competitive usage of the Ransom Group Texture Library is unlimited and royalty-free.

 

My reading of this is that:

 

* You MAY use the textures in your TDM maps

* You MAY distribute the textures packaged along with the maps, but only for usage with those maps

* You MAY NOT distribute the textures by themselves (so adding them to our main SVN repository is not allowed)

* These rights apply only to you, and not to anyone else.

 

By this interpretation, you're allowed to make maps with the textures, and you're allowed to package up the textures with the maps and distribute the package, but you're NOT allowed to give the textures to anyone else in any other way.

 

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

 

So what I'm getting at is can I donate these textures to darkmod?

No.

 

is it possible to lock the map files so no one can access?

No. This is not technically possible, and even if it was, see NH's post.

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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OK, so the licence agreement is at http://www.textureworld.com/About_Texture_...cense_Agreement

 

Here's the relevant paragraph (emphasis added):

 

 

 

My reading of this is that:

 

* You MAY use the textures in your TDM maps

* You MAY distribute the textures packaged along with the maps, but only for usage with those maps

* You MAY NOT distribute the textures by themselves (so adding them to our main SVN repository is not allowed)

* These rights apply only to you, and not to anyone else.

 

By this interpretation, you're allowed to make maps with the textures, and you're allowed to package up the textures with the maps and distribute the package, but you're NOT allowed to give the textures to anyone else in any other way.

 

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

 

 

No.

 

 

No. This is not technically possible, and even if it was, see NH's post.

 

"* You MAY use the textures in your TDM maps"

Yes, but what I'm saying is hint hint, if you guys wanna use it why not claim that I am creating you tdm maps by coauthoring

So if I "coauthored" the maps others make with there map packages, then "I" should legally be able to use my textures on all "my" maps. So why yes, it wouldn't be a straight process, I think you could get away with it. Just make a rule stating to put that if they use the textures. I really don't think that small company is gonna attack us if you do that. It's not even for profit.

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"Non-competitive usage of the Ransom Group Texture Library is unlimited and royalty-free."

 

As long as you aren't trying to make money from something these textures are used in, I think they are fair game. You aren't trying to use them in a competitive manner. TDM is an open project, ESPECIALLY after you guys go gold with it.

 

Another thing you could do, is only use them amongst official team members, and NOT give them out with the rest of the end-user package. It would give you guys some ultra-premium artwork to fiddle with, and just throw out a credit to where the textures came from to point mappers to their stuff.

 

After looking at some of their stuff, its pretty awesome. It could be worth blowing a hundred bucks or so for the right person on their packages if that someone really wanted to be hard core about a campaign.

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Another thing you could do, is only use them amongst official team members, and NOT give them out with the rest of the end-user package.

 

As was said earlier, this goes against the spirit and purpose of the mod. "By the community, for the community". Anything used in map should have the potential to be added to the main mod repository or be able to be shared amongst the community.

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What NH said. (Though in my opinion it should only apply to "official" maps. Pataran can go ahead and release FMs of his own using the textures, as long as I'm right about that being OK by the licence.)

 

Also:

 

It's not even for profit.

It's still illegal.

 

"Non-competitive usage of the Ransom Group Texture Library is unlimited and royalty-free."

That sentence is ambiguous. The meaning of "non-competitive" is never defined, and I have a hard time believing that the one sentence cancels out the rest of the paragraph.

 

Thanks for trying guys, but I think it's safer to stay well away from this. :) I wouldn't be comfortable interpreting the licence in any of the ways we'd have to interpret it without a written OK from a lawyer. And you know what they say about getting advice from lawyers: Don't bother! Just assume the answer was "no" and proceed on that basis. ;)

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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On not a really related topic, I have a question about textures in the editor. I import them just fine and they look great in the editor, however when the game is actually run the textures seem to blur out or lose alot of detail. What is the cause of that? As a total newbie who just learned texturing when I got the packs last night I'm having a real hard time understanding the methods for making the normals look good. The funny thing is a bunch of the textures come with a grayscale/bumpmap image as a partner but I can't seem to use them right. I've searched multiple tut's but the texture and quality process is beyond me at the moment.

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You could ask them if you like. I'm doubtful they'd agree, since in my experience artists are usually pretty protective of assets that they're trying to make a living from, but you could certainly try.

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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Well I think technically DarkMod IS a library of assets. If we include those tex they are part of that library...

 

---------@pataran

You can use a greayscale bumpmap, Doom will turn it into a normal, might not get best results.

 

My DoubleBass model uses this technique. I won't be at home alll week though so I don't have access to it.

 

Check and make sure the tex are sized correctly. powers of 2. 256x512, 512x512, etc... If not I think the engine resizes but you get bad effects, blurriness is an indicator of that.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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Those textures are ugly as hell anyways. They don't know how to make proper normals, and the spec is cranked up WAY too high. The rug ones are probably the only ones worth using.

 

Pretty sure that the rugs are ours anyway, unless this company used some of the same free texture sources we did.

 

I agree that the speculars are way too high, and probably not needed at all. Don't use speculars unless you have to...and even then, sparingly. They give the textures that plastic look that Doom 3 is so maligned for.

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Those textures are ugly as hell anyways. They don't know how to make proper normals, and the spec is cranked up WAY too high. The rug ones are probably the only ones worth using.

 

Well, Mr Killhour, those ugly textures looked that way because I stated earlier that I couldn't figure out how to use the height maps with the textures yet. They look way better now because I got crazy bump to do it for me. Please read what people are talking about before trying to flame. The errors in the textures were originally from me.

P.S, I was trying to do this for YOUR benefit to make darkmod have better textures.

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pataran, I think we mostly appreciate the good intentions for help, but we are just wary of any slightest legal/ethical entanglements. Some little "trick" about saying you "helped" with everything we do I think just wouldn't cut it.

 

I encourage you as others have to seek explicit permission for this sort of thing. If the texture pack is actually good enough, perhaps the author (if he says no at first) might negotiate an additional fee for the mod to have the textures. Then we could take up a collection or something.

shadowdark50.gif keep50.gif
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I understand completely Komag, I'm not frustrated at that, I was frustrated at Killhour's comment because I bought these packs, which look great, but I'm having trouble getting the same quality from editor into ingame due to the fact that I just started texturing about 2 days ago. So it gets extremely frustrating when you are spending 5+ hours a day trying to get textures to look good without a clue as to what I'm really doing and then having someone dismiss the stuff I'm trying to do as junk. And yes they do look good in editor and crazy bump and are sized correctly(512 x 512). I got rid of the majority of the spec problem but I still get somewhat of a hazy/muddled effect unless I make the tiles small in game. Anyone who can personally show me the ropes to making the textures great looking is more than welcome

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Keeping the diffuse map (and optionally the normal map) at a higher resolution will help to prevent it from looking blurry. That will also cause a performance impact of course (especially on video memory usage), which may or may not be OK depending on how well optimised your map is and how much you care about supporting lower-end systems. The only way to tell for sure is to try it and see.

 

The specular maps are probably intended to work with a different engine rather than Doom 3, which does tend to make things look like plastic when they have even a bit of specular. I get the impression that they work a bit differently from other engines, which accounts for this effect. For many textures you can probably just omit specular entirely. For textures which are supposed to look shiny (like metal) it might be better to keep the specular maps but make them darker so they have less of an effect.

 

And yes, as mentioned I certainly appreciate your good intentions. :)

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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<br />Well, Mr Killhour, those ugly textures looked that way because I stated earlier that I couldn't figure out how to use the height maps with the textures yet. They look way better now because I got crazy bump to do it for me. Please read what people are talking about before trying to flame. The errors in the textures were originally from me. <br />P.S, I was trying to do this for YOUR benefit to make darkmod have better textures.<br />
;I do appreciate the effort you put in. You don't need to get defensive about things other people made, though. I assumed that those normals came with the textures. Why would they charge for textures that don't come with normals or spec maps? They're alright, I guess ugly was the wrong word. They're just far from professional, and seem to be low resolution. I'm sure we all appreciate the gesture, but the license is too restrictive for us to use.
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