The best tool a thief can get...

[Jesps]

Hi. I don't know if the team is aware of this bug/exploit, but it was a fun way of entering the church in Saint Lucia.

Note that I had my lantern ON while sneaking past the builder guard.

http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k289/Jes...etteVsGuard.flv

 

For those too lazy to click the link it shows that the player can hold a wooden pallet up in front of him and sneak right past a guard (holding the pallet between him self and the guard thereby blocking the guard's visibility).

 

My guess is it has something to do with the AI's ability to see though objects (or lack of)? This is basically a good thing since it allows the player to hide behind crates and stuff. It does however seem to produce a(n) (unwanted) sideeffect.

 

Wonder what the guard was thinking. Look at that! Another stray pallet. Sure, people can buy them when they are small and cute, but when they grow to large they just let them out in the streets.

[Springheel]

lol. Yeah, that's an exploit we've talked about but haven't gotten around to fixing yet.

[Mortem Desino]

Hahahah!

Look at that! Another stray pallet. Sure, people can buy them when they are small and cute, but when they grow to large they just let them out in the streets.

*whistling* Don't mind me, I'm just your floating friendly neighborhood piece of wood! There's nothing suspicious here.

How's the Missus and all the little kids?

I'm thirsty, do you have any wood shellac or varnish laying around?

That's a nice outfit, where's your dry cleaning done?

Have you got a dime for a hamburger, friend? I swear I won't spend it on pagan schrooms!

[muncadunc]

Yeah, I mentioned that one here a while back. I kind of like it, although obviously it's got to be fixed.

 

I do like the idea of a Metal Gear-style cardboard box (crate?) for the protagonist to hide under, though.

[Dram]

The easiest solution in this case would be to have the AI get alerted from "floating" objects.

[Springheel]

That's probably not a great idea, unless we don't want AI to ever carry anything.

 

We already have a few options for how to address this problem, it just hasn't made it to the top of the 'to do' heap yet.

[killhour]

That's probably not a great idea, unless we don't want AI to every carry anything.

 

We already have a few options for how to address this problem, it just hasn't made it to the top of the 'to do' heap yet.

 

Make them suspicious of floating objects, and check to see who's carrying them. If it's a friendly, they should remember what (s)he was carrying and no longer be alerted by it. This could be accompanied by a "Who's that?" "It's just me." conversation that calms guards down. Smacking a servent on the head and sneaking past the guard by hiding behind the wine barrel he was hauling would be pretty cool.

[Tels]

Make them suspicious of floating objects, and check to see who's carrying them. If it's a friendly, they should remember what (s)he was carrying and no longer be alerted by it. This could be accompanied by a "Who's that?" "It's just me." conversation that calms guards down. Smacking a servent on the head and sneaking past the guard by hiding behind the wine barrel he was hauling would be pretty cool.

 

Things carried (and thrown) by the player should always alert them, unless the player can wear servants pants and shoes

[Mortem Desino]

Things carried (and thrown) by the player should always alert them, unless the player can wear servants pants and shoes

1. Servant Picks up wine barrel.

2. Servant passes by Guard. Guard Acknowledges that wine barrel is being moved.

3. Thief blackjacks Servant.

4. Servant drops wine barrel.

5. Wine barrel, having been handled by one authorized to do so, and having been acknowledged beforehand, is not treated as 'suspiciously misplaced'. (Exceptions may include: wine barrel totally blocks a hallway, wine barrel rolls into restricted area, wine barrel rolls into and crushes guard's foot.)

[Springheel]

That's not how quite how it works. AI pay attention to objects that are no longer where they were supposed to be (if the mapper sets it up that way) but they don't currently pay attention to objects that appear somewhere they weren't supposed to (with the exception of dropped weapons). In your example above, you'd have to keep track of every AI that saw the servant carrying the crate, and then deal with cases where two AI react differently to the same thing (and the player has no way of knowing which AI will react which way).

[Mortem Desino]

I just reworded it for Tels' sake, I'm actually leaning against it. It's a rather vague situation that I don't think anyone would think to take advantage of.

 

I used to work in BASIC and Visual BASIC myself, and I know how tedious it can get setting up multiple exceptions to those stinking If-Then scipts.

I've never seen so many "ElseIf"s all in a row!

[killhour]

I just reworded it for Tels' sake, I'm actually leaning against it. It's a rather vague situation that I don't think anyone would think to take advantage of.

 

I used to work in BASIC and Visual BASIC myself, and I know how tedious it can get setting up multiple exceptions to those stinking If-Then scipts.

I've never seen so many "ElseIf"s all in a row!

 

Case functions are your friend.

[AluminumHaste]

How about making anything the player picks up, not block AI vis? Can't we just propagate that state to any object the player currently has attached to him?

[rebb]

[Ishtvan]

How about making anything the player picks up, not block AI vis? Can't we just propagate that state to any object the player currently has attached to him?

Yes, that is one option. I believe it's as simple as unsetting the "opaque" flag in the contents flags. You can still get exploits though if the shadow of the object falls on the player and darkens their lightgem. Personally I'd like to set held objects to not opaque and remove them from the lightgem rendershot. That still doesn't cover the case of waving an object around the corner in an AI's sight while you yourself are blocked, but nothing's perfect.

[Tels]

Yes, that is one option. I believe it's as simple as unsetting the "opaque" flag in the contents flags. You can still get exploits though if the shadow of the object falls on the player and darkens their lightgem. Personally I'd like to set held objects to not opaque and remove them from the lightgem rendershot. That still doesn't cover the case of waving an object around the corner in an AI's sight while you yourself are blocked, but nothing's perfect.

 

Well, the code that shots the "trace" that hits the object can simple decide what to do in each case:

 

* hit object held by player, object is lit and moving => busted

* hit object held by player, object is unlit and moving => okay

* hit object held by player, object is unlit and unmoving => okay

* hit player with held object, use players lightgem

 

We could even extend it so that when the player holds and object, and in the second case, the trace hits the player, we shot a second trace to the held object and check it's status (moving, unmoving, lit etc). That would cover the case that a player in the shadow is seen from the side, waving a palette into the light, optionally shadowing him. (in this case currently the guard decides the player is in shadow and invisible, but regardles of where the shadow comes from the guard should notice the moving object even if it doesn't collide with anything).

[Retsaki]

something I really wish would be implented already in the ai code is ; when I throw something near a guard or somewhere near him he goes to where he thinks it might of been thrown from.

an example of this is in saint lucia when your in the church where all the seating is where the guard patrols between the rows of seats. go on the secondish floor where the bass is and make sure to bring a candle with you..throw the candle at the or near the guard he says some gibberish then goes to the ladder as he goes to the ladder backtrack abit and jump down a level then you successfully snuck past him..the second guard is sorta easy just black jack him when he closes the door he won't even notice you until he finishes closeing it unless your too close..