Noble & Table

[sparhawk]

Is this a result of the head swapping technique?

[BlackThief]

no - it's all one lwo mesh - no head swapping

[oDDity]

I'll take the screenshots of the models myself from now on, you obviously have no skill with lighting at all. You can either light it to make it look good like in my shots, or light it to make it look as bad as possible like in your shots.

[sparhawk]

The models will be used in maps which will be much worse lightened than BlackThief ever could do. IMO BT's map is not that bad lightened.

[BlackThief]

lol - I placed the light in front of her head just for testing purposes

 

You can either light it to make it look good like in my shots, or light it to make it look as bad as possible like in your shots.

 

I think you missed one point: We're making a game not a 3d-render scene. The player will be able to look at your models from any direction in any lighting-situation. It doesn't help if a model looks great on one screenshot - character models will walk through the level and you WILL see them not properly lit.

 

 

I think there's a small problem with the normalmap of the noblewoman and it doesn't help to ignore it, because it appears in many lighting situations.

here's a simple example: you'll see such a lighting situation a hundret times - the model is between two lightsources, that are placed on a higher level than the model.

here's a screenshot what it looks like, when D3 renderes the scene:

Edited April 6, 2005 by BlackThief

[Springheel]

Wow, her skin doesn't look quite so good up close. She could use some foundation...

[Ishtvan]

At least she still has a killer body

[Springheel]

Someone pointed this out on the public forum, and it seems to happen at many different angles, but the shadow doesn't seem to meet her feet properly.

[oDDity]

It's the way normal maps work - they look better when the lighting is at certain angle and brightness, so obviously when posting a screenshot you want to set the lighting up as flatteringly as possible. I'm very good at that - my renders almost look like a different model, and the only difference is the lighting )

It's looks fine in game from all angles - I have it rotating slowly, but still photo closeups with ultra bright lighting do wash out the textures.

Looking at the model in-game is different since usually you or it (or both of you) are moving . Looking at still shots with bad lighting angles gives the wrong impression.

Mappers should steer clear of very bright lights anyway, dim lights make everything look better.

 

I kmean, just look at the difference

Edited April 6, 2005 by oDDity

[oDDity]

lighting from below looks fantastic also.

[oDDity]

Lighting from above looks like five kinds of shit.

Whether it's just this model or the normal maps lightwave generates I don't know, but the face looks really bad with the light coming from above.

[sparhawk]

She looks pretty sad on the one shot. What happend?

[Renzatic]

I think she's sad because her face deflated.

 

That'll have to be fixed though (if it can be fixed), considering that most of our lighting will come from above.

[Darkness_Falls]

She looks pretty sad on the one shot. What happend?

She found out her loot was stolen

[Napalm]

Well the light from the side looks fine, the light from the bottom looks AMAZING, the light from the top looks...shitty.

[Ishtvan]

Don't know anything about lighting, but would the light from the top still look shitty if there were a uniform ambient light to smoothe out some of those pitch dark shadows?

[Darkness_Falls]

oDDity wrote: Mappers should steer clear of very bright lights anyway, dim lights make everything look better.

I disagree. I didn't realize how much I missed having areas of very bright lights until I played T3. The tension and frustration of trying to figure out how I would get down a very brightly lit hallway -- or through a bright room -- in T2 was a great experience. Truly, mappers should not avoid bright lights. Unless a castle or mansion is specifically lit to allow a thief to come by and rip everything off (see T3) then bright lights should not be forbidden. Their occasional use can make the difference between a ho-hum experience and a great experience, as the rewards of making it through a bright area without being discovered is awesome.

[Springheel]

There's a difference between game bright (your gem is fully lit) and engine bright. I'm with Ishtvan though, I think part of the problem is the harsh black shadows. We should be applying a dim ambient to most areas to avoid this.

[Corth]

I'm in favor of a new normal map. Just think about this:

 

"Warning: only use this model where lights are low to the ground. The higher the lights, the dimmer they should be, or else this model will look ugly."

 

or:

 

"Warning: you must be a lighting genius in order to use this model well in your fan mission."

 

Neither of those are too... appealing...

 

The model does look good an all, but I do believe it should look good in all possible area's and be accomidating to the FM authors.

[sparhawk]

There's a difference between game bright (your gem is fully lit) and engine bright.

If it is, it is a bug.

[oDDity]

I disagree. I didn't realize how much I missed having areas of very bright lights until I played T3. The tension and frustration of trying to figure out how I would get down a very brightly lit hallway -- or through a bright room -- in T2 was a great experience. Truly, mappers should not avoid bright lights. Unless a castle or mansion is specifically lit to allow a thief to come by and rip everything off (see T3) then bright lights should not be forbidden. Their occasional use can make the difference between a ho-hum experience and a great experience, as the rewards of making it through a bright area without being discovered is awesome.

THe lights in the game should be mostly candles, torches, gas lamps, fireplaces etc anyway - that means open flames. Flames are NOT bright, only artifical lights look harshly bright.

[oDDity]

If it is, it is a bug.

I also notice that when you afre standing in conmplete darkness, the lightgem is not as dark as it should be.

I'm stabnding in total darkness here, and the lightgem should be at it's lowest possible setting, but that looks more like bitmap 2 or 3 to me. It still looks as though I am in some light, bit no matter how dark I make it, I can't get the gem to go any darker than this.

[BlackThief]

Lighting from above looks like five kinds of shit.

I'm glad you see that it's not only a specific problem of my map

[sparhawk]

It still looks as though I am in some light, bit no matter how dark I make it, I can't get the gem to go any darker than this.

As long as you are standing in a light it will never go below 2. If there is light then there is light. If there is no light at all it will go to 1.

 

IMO there is no point in creat a light which is as dark as having no light at all, so the assumption is, that, even if the light is extremly low it still brighter than pitch black.

[oDDity]

Still, when you see a 0,0,0 black shadow and stand in it, it looks strange to see the lightgem still apparently lit up like that. I think it would be better to make the darkest setting darker than the above screenshot.