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Darkness_Falls

Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory

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This looks like gameplay footage, albeit somewhat cinematic/scripted... but thought some of you might be interested to see another game that looks to integrate some interesting stealth gameplay:

 

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory Video (24.7MB)

 

IGNPC Review

 

Not really related to Dark Mod, but wanted to share anyways.

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Yeah, the game is OK, but I did'nt enjoy it much at all (I tried the demo). You can no longer KO them with the back of the gun when you hold them hostage, you can only kill them, which I think changes the whole morale of the game. I thought it was really slack. Either way, the demo is just a demo, so I'd have to see the whole game to get a whole opinion.

 

Thanks for sharing it though :)

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You can no longer KO them with the back of the gun when you hold them hostage, you can only kill them, which I think changes the whole morale of the game.

yeah that sucks - I don't like the whole knife-attack thing. but eventhough you've now much more options to kill your enemies it's still pretty easy to ghost most parts of the levels.

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Did you like the demo BlackThief? I couldn't tell if you liked or didn't like the fact that ghosting is easy. If anyone here gets the game and thinks about this thread, feel free to say whether you liked it or not. I'm thinking about getting the game and I feel someone who likes the Thief series would be a good resource to find out if it lives up to the stealth sophistication we know and love regarding the Thief series.

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did you play any other splinter cell game? if you liked the other games you'll like CT as well. I'm not sure myself if I like SC ;) it's fun, but it's getting pretty boring after some levels - too linear and most of the time too easy imho. if I buy chaos theory it'll be only because of the multiplayer, because that's really fun, when you've got a good team-mate :)

Edited by BlackThief

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I don't think I've played Splinter Cell, nope. I think Rainbow Six: Ghost Recon was the last 'Tom Clancy' type of game I played. Oh wait, I maybe played 15 minutes of some Splinter Cell game that came out on the XBOX a couple years back. It was alright, but I think graphics on the PC would be a lot clearer and better; thus, funner to play. Given that I kind've enjoyed Ghost Recon -- although I got sick of the lame AI -- I think there might be hope for me and Chaos Theory.

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I posted a thread about the demo earlier. You can KO them when you have the gun/knife to their head, it's just a choke out but they're still alive. Or you can stab 'em unnecessarily.

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Well, I downloaded and played the Chaos Theory demo last night... and I wasn't that impressed. It was okay, but the clunky movement and obstructive 3rd-person point-of-view got on my nerves. The game's engine reminded me a bit of Thief: Deadly Shadows, actually. The NCP animations seemed stiff and the graphics were kind've choppy, also. Of course, the latter may be a signal that I need to upgrade my computer soon.

 

There were several elements about the game that I liked, including the stealth and tools (infrared/EMF goggles, fiber-optic cable, etc.) but I won't be getting it mainly because of the 3rd person POV, clunky graphics and lame keyboard controls.

 

I liked that it had two stealth meters: one for visibility and one for sounds.

Edited by Darkness_Falls

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The sound meter was kinda crappy though. The response time for environmental sounds was horrendous (witness the thunder). You can tell it was meant to be a static thing based on the map location and then they just hacked in some global changes in it when the thunder happened (altho I dunno, maybe some later levels in the retail version do a better job with the sound meter)

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Why would you need a meter to determine how much noise you're making? Can't you just listen?

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You don't actually need a light meter either, I played T3 fine without it.


Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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It was actually pretty interesting, Springheel. If it were better implemented, according to what Ishtvan wrote, I guess it would've been better. I didn't really pay too much attention to it, since I was already distracted enough by gameplay issues going on (3rd-person, clunkiness, etc.).

 

Imagine a meter -- with meter levels of, say, 1 thru 10. Depending on ambient noise (machines humming, thunder claps, ocean shore, etc.) it would rate it on the meter. So, for example, if you're near a machine it may register as a 4 on the scale. "4" would get a bright blip on the meter. Along with this, the meter would also keep track of the amount of sound *you* made when moving around or dropping stuff, etc. If your sound output stayed below the "4", then NCPs couldn't hear you. But if you made too much noise and registered as a 5 or above, then NCPs could hear you.

 

It made me think we might want to try to incorporate something like this for Dark Mod. Otherwise, there's no way to really know how *loud* ambient noises really are in the environment you're walking around in and how much sound protection they provide.

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I have to go with Oddity on this one, esp. since I'm the one programming in the volumes and stuff... I don't want to "reveal" too much, but just follow your ears :)

Edited by Ishtvan

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A light meter isn't ideal either, but it compensates for not being able to see your body in game, to judge how much of you is actually in the shadows. But your hearing in game is essentially the same as it would be in real life.

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No, I feel they both pretty much equally compensate. You can pretty much tell without a light gem when you're in a shadow versus not in one in Thief; and how dark that shadow is.

 

If the shadows are well accounted for like they were in Thief 2, then I feel the vision you have in-game is pretty much the same as it would be in real life. I'm with oDDity that neither are truly needed. I brought it up mainly since we already get a tool for light and I feel a tool to figure out whether or not a machine drowns out my footsteps across a marble floor is arguably just as necessary. I'm fine without a sound meter, though, trust me :)

Edited by Darkness_Falls

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THe problem with having a meter of any kind, is that you then start to depend on it entirely and trust it implicitly - to the exclusion of all else, even your own senses and skills.

Without meters, the whole experience becomes more immediate and real.

OF course, there will always be so many people insisting that they *need* a light meter, that we couldn't possibly make a game without one.

No, as far as I'm concerned making a HUD at all with any type of imformation is like fitting brakes to a pineapple - time consuming and completely pointless.


Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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I recently got this game (PC version) as some people think it's one of the best of the series. I have to say I don't like it much but I found it insightful, about what breaks a game.

 

Ill-thought-out gameplay

 

There are some good elements: nightvision (avoids the Thief "I see them but they can't" paradox), sticky camera, whistle, optical cable, adjustable walking speed, rappel and zip-line,...

But mostly:

 

- "gadgetism": you have 2 or 3 different actions, but they have the same result (eg disable a NPC) or are hardly useful (thermic and "electrical" views). It's as if the developpers thought "Maybe if we give them enough actions, they'll forget how poor the gameplay is."

- overpowered gear: the secondary shot on SC pistol that disables lights looks gamebreaking (so far)

- Fisher has a huge broom up the arse that seem to prevent him from moving and mantling smoothly (common issue, even in good games: DX, Hitman,...).

-3rd person view: common issue as well, everything's been said already.

- the contextual action menu is not a bad idea, but it breaks pace and immersion when you have to scroll. Maybe adding a key to choices numbers would have been a good idea

 

Poor level/plot design

 

- Spacial linearity: most doors are not openable, there's no visual way to tell what's climbable or not, but anyway almost nothing is.

 

- Chronological linearity: if you don't follow the steps, you won't trigger events and might go to the right place but NPCs won't have popped (probably the worst thing ever).

 

Sometimes you have two different pathes to the same step or room, though.

 

...Storytelling

 

Good stuff: in-game news and notes journal, ability to interrogate grabbed people, many conversations,native language option

But:

 

-while I believe it's good practice to assume players are not smart, I don't think you should show them how well you apply that. When you cannot read objective-stamped e-mails on computers and the HQ tell you what's inside, it's offending. When the guy I had to take down waited endlessly facing the fridge (to get a beer, supposedly), I felt sick.

-the map is not really helpful

-sometimes you cannot interrogate, when it would have been simple to add a few "tell me what you know"-"I don't know shit" dialogues.

 

Conclusion: I think it was meant to be simulation-oriented, but if you don't feel it, nothing's going to save the game. IMO, it's far from being as good as Dishonored, TDM, Thief, Hitman, Deus Ex, or even... Assassin's Creed.


Jared, is that you ?

Must be rats...

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Wow, I never even thought these forums already existed in 2005... Now that this is already necro'ed, might as well add my opinion, having played the four first Splinter Cells (got 'em all from magazines, my main source of games back in the days of sparse pocket money).

I didn't really like any Splinter Cell, they just seemed too consolish for me: third-person camera, clunky movement (with keyboard and mouse at least, I'd imagine it'd at least feel okay with a gamepad), the linear leveldesign with the arbitrary triggers; also the story...

CT was still the best of them I played, if only because you could just run through the levels knifing everybody, at least it made it go by faster and I even had a little fun doing that. If I remember correctly you could even throw objects that were lying around (rocks, tin cans...) at enemies to knock them out, which made it even more laughable.

Also:

 

nightvision (avoids the Thief "I see them but they can't" paradox)

 

But introduces the "They don't mind the bright green googly eyes in the shadow" paradox (also the green light on Fishers back... which was really unnecessary since it told you something your HUD did anyways).


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But introduces the "They don't mind the bright green googly eyes in the shadow" paradox (also the green light on Fishers back... which was really unnecessary since it told you something your HUD did anyways).

 

Fair enough ;) But in reality nightvision googles shoudn't emit any light anyway! So it could have been coherent.


Jared, is that you ?

Must be rats...

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Lets not kid ourselves. The green goggles are clearly done to let the player know which direction the character is facing in the dark (if you play with your gamma at proper levels). It obviously has no bearing on the fact that night vision goggles don't emit green light. Or if you've played Blacklist... purple, yellow, orange, red, or blue light.

 

None of the SC games have been miraculous achievements or anything of the sort. I've played them all as well and pretty much the only reason I play them is because, as a kid, I was really in to the old James Bond, Money Penny, Q gadget + Spy/Espionage fan and this series of games offers that for those people.

 

I enjoy the stories of these games and for me that's enough. Chaos Theory, for me as well, was the best game of the series. Blacklist is good as far as this series goes, certainly pretty, there are some really fun levels but many fall short, new gadgets, but the game play feels really odd in some way I can't put my finger on. Maybe because of the pretty small levels or small-load-point-to-load-point sections. The story was decent and the command HQ was interesting but still I feel it fell short of Chaos Theory's story.

 

If you didn't like Chaos Theory, which seemed like the pinnacle of the series (at least to some), I wouldn't waste any further funds on future iterations.

Edited by Lux
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Ah, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory.

This personally is not only my favorite stealth game of all time, but my favorite game of all time.

I'm going to go play it again.

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