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A-Z Beginner Guide Improvement (dmap part)

beginner guide tutorials introduction

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#1 mikulabc

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:20 PM

I decided to try DarkRadiant and followed the instructions word by word until i got to the "dmap compiling" part here:

http://wiki.thedarkm...ing_the_Mission

 

The problem I was facing as a beginner is that the instructions were not enough, the path were mixed and shown forward and backward "\", "/" for folder structure.

 

Then i tried to get smart from here http://forums.thedar...older-settings/ and still could not get the test to work, luckily, just in time this video came out https://www.youtube....h?v=hpkkE681TPo and i followed the steps EXACTLY as the video was explaining word by word and i managed to start my test mission, so i would like you to update the page "Dmap:_Compiling_the_Mission" http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=A_-_Z_Beginner_Full_Guide_Start_Here!#Dmap:_Compiling_the_Mission explanation for other newcomers how to do the first testrun of the level so they do not get frustrated like me

 

I could see that i am not the first one to run into trouble at exactly this part of the A-Z guide, in my opinion this is the most important part, even if it sounds logical to the veteran dark radiant users out there :)

 

anyhow, this is my first post in the forum so i just wanted to contribute this part as "feedback" so the A-Z can be improved at the right places for new users


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#2 Destined

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:58 PM

I have added these lines as I think that this was the part that was missing for getting it to work:


[Edit by Destined:]

  • Save your map in the folder "maps" in your Dark Mod folder (e.g. C:\Darkmod\maps\). The console will have this folder set as a staring point by default

[End of Edit]

 

Do you think this is sufficient or should it be more elaborate?

@any Admins: I hope noone minds that I added these lines. I have included the "Edited by Destined" part, to make clear where I made the changes. If noone objects with the change, I will delete it, so it looks cleaner.



#3 mikulabc

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 03:14 PM

Do you think this is sufficient or should it be more elaborate?

 

It needs more info, you are probably also a dark radiant veteran, I am not getting smart from the additional line, it would be good if the content of the video word by word is added somehow so the user is not confused at all, since there is a lot of information already, this is only my opinion as a newbie to dark radiant, still confused, like i mentioned, the video did the trick, it answered all my questions, hope it helps :)


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#4 Destined

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:07 PM

Ok, I have deleted the other Edit and added a new section "Folder Structure". It have taken the video as reference and added the information (not exatcly but almost word for word). However, I left the part with the shortcut, as I think it is not nececessary for the rest. Please tell me what you think and report any mistakes I made. I hope the author of the video is not mad that I used it as a reference (I am not 100% sure who made it, if I remember correctly it should have been Judith on this forum?).



#5 Obsttorte

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:47 PM

It might be worthwhile to encourage new mappers to use the project-based setup anyways. With that, you type dmap mymap in the console (where mypam is the name of the map file) and that's it. It works the same way if the map is placed in the maps folder as proposed by Destined, but creating fms that way is a very messy thing and should be avoided.


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#6 mikulabc

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:47 PM

Ok, I have deleted the other Edit and added a new section "Folder Structure".

 

Thanks a lot!! It would be easy to read if it were bullet points separating each step, it is currently 1 fat paragraph, if that can be made in bullet points you are the hero! :) i wish i could change it but i cannot sign up as editor for the wiki

 

again, thx a lot


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#7 mikulabc

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:55 PM

one more thing... the guide explains now 2x the same thing, in "Dmap: Compiling the Mission" the same info from the Folder Structure is mentioned in a different way, maybe this note should be added for the reader, so the reader does not get confused by the same thing mentioned again at the end?


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#8 Destined

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 06:10 AM

I don't have access from this computer, I will have anotehr look this evening.



#9 OGDA

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 06:45 AM

Hello,

 

I'm new here (not the The Dark Mod, but to the mapping part) and started learning and creating a map with dark radiant for two weeks now.

 

I yesterday switched from having my map under D:\The_Dark_Mod\maps\asdf.map to D:\The_Dark_Mod\fms\asdf\maps\asdf.map after having serious troubles (and partially still have) with the readables editor and dark radiant not saving the .xd in the correct path or having it in the correct path but The Dark Mod not displaying the text on the scroll (not the gui).

 

When I come home today I'll post all the directories set up in my system, perhaps this helps in getting a functional wiki entry or getting rid of some strange behaviours? :)



#10 mikulabc

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 06:51 AM

I don't have access from this computer, I will have anotehr look this evening.

 

Thanks, this is very appreciated! 

 

One little thing that confused me just a tiny bit was the Doom.exe that made no sense to me, since the game is Standalone and it is mentioning Doom it was quite confusing, there were thoughts going through my head like "did i miss installing doom?" just on a sidenote.


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#11 New Horizon

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 07:41 AM

Wow. It sounds like the guide is quite out of date. Thanks for the heads up.
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#12 mikulabc

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 07:47 AM

Wow. It sounds like the guide is quite out of date. Thanks for the heads up.

 

If the game is getting more attention since it is on Steam now, it would be wise to update the baby steps in a join venture (a-z guide) for the newest dark radiant version?


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#13 OGDA

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 12:21 PM

Hello, so here's my folder feedback:

====================================

Project Folder:
D:\GAMES\The Dark Mod\fms\asdf

Map in:
D:\GAMES\The Dark Mod\fms\asdf\maps\asdf.maps

Xdata:
D:\GAMES\The Dark Mod\fms\asdf\xdata\asdf.xd

====================================

Dark Radiant

Select a Game:
The Dark Mod 2.0 (Standalone)

Engine Path:
D:/GAMES/The Dark Mod/

Mod (fs_game):
fms/asdf

Mod Base (fs_game_base, optional):
fms/asdf
or (seems to make no difference)
Darkmod

====================================

D:\GAMES\The Dark Mod\currentfm.txt
asdf

====================================

Without the entry
- D:\GAMES\The Dark Mod\currentfm.txt: asdf
The Dark Mod would compile and search for the Map under
D:\GAMES\The Dark Mod\maps\asdf.map
instead of
D:\GAMES\The Dark Mod\fms\asdf\maps\asdf.map
when entering dmap asdf in the console.
I got this clue from
http://wiki.thedarkm..._up_a_Workspace -> Headline "The ugly(I prefer personally)"
and this was the only solution working for me from that page, the other mentioned unfortunately failed).

This was also the only working option so that The Dark Mod would display the content of the xd-file
(under D:\GAMES\The Dark Mod\fms\asdf\xdata\asdf.xd)
on the 3D-Scroll-Object as well as in the gui (for reading).

---

Without
- Mod (fs_game): fms/asdf
- Mod Base (fs_game_base, optional): fms/asdf
or (seems to make no difference)
- Mod Base (fs_game_base, optional): Darkmod
dark radiant would create the xd-file somewhere else
(instead of D:\GAMES\The Dark Mod\fms\asdf\xdata\asdf.xd) so the above entries are the only working I have found so far.

====================================
So far for the path configuration.

The optimazation options described under
http://wiki.thedarkm....php?title=Dmap
only work partially.

For instance lightCarve as a parameter is working, noFragment doesn't work.
The Dark Mod tries to dmap (and of course doesn't find) a map called maps/noFragment.map

---

The compiling method described in
http://wiki.thedarkm...ing_the_Mission
also doesn't work for me this way, as I can only compile with
dmap asdf
not with
dmap asdf/asdf.map
no matter if the map is in
D:\GAMES\The Dark Mod\maps\asdf.map
or
D:\GAMES\The Dark Mod\fms\asdf\maps\asdf.maps


====================================

I still have problems getting different scroll layouts and fonts working, resulting either in missing fonts on the 3d-object or no gui displaying (which locks all other player interaction), but I have to test that further and eventually ask some questions in the newbie thread.



#14 stumpy

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 01:58 PM

mines installed in E://Mods/Darkmod/

then folder structure is

============

dds/

def/

env/

fonts/english/

guis/

maps/

materials/

models/darkmod/

particles/

script/

skins/

sound/

strings/fm/

textures/

xdata/

 

so for dmap its

dmap name_of_mission_folder/name_of_mission

eg current ones

dmap drayspine/drayspine

dmap oakvillage/village

 

these two are using bits of each others material and model files, eg the same wooden coffin models used in dead_drunk.

 

then to run them its

map drayspine/drayspine

map oakvillage/village

 

I have a separate install of the dark mod in E://Games/Darkmod

to make sure I haven't missed anything out of the <mission>.pk4 files and for testing.

Its more easy for me to work like this than stick everything in separate folders in the fm/name_of_mission_folder

 

I also have a bunch of test maps in maps/test/ very small missions to test some things to make sure they work before adding them to the map am working on some things that take 10 seconds at the most to dmap, so I don't use the optional set folder structure to an single mission.


Edited by stumpy, 02 March 2017 - 02:11 PM.


#15 stumpy

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 02:20 PM

the discrete and noFragment mentioned in the dmap part of the wiki are used inside material definition they are not command line arguments.

eg

textures/darkmod/rougecard/bathmirror1
{
      discrete
      noshadows
      qer_editorimage textures/darkmod/rougecard/bathmirr_ed
      {
            blend gl_dst_color,gl_zero
            map textures/darkmod/rougecard/bathmirr
      }
      solid
      mirror
}

 

textures/darkmod/drayspire/skies/draynight
{
      qer_editorimage textures/darkmod/drayspire/skies/draynight_ed
      noFragment
      noshadows
      nooverlays
      forceOpaque
      {
            blend      add
            cameraCubeMap env/drayspine/draynight
            forceHighQuality
            texgen      skybox
            texgen      wobblesky .0 .0 .0
      }
}



#16 Destined

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 02:35 PM

Ok, I have added a comment that parts of the "Folder structure" section overlap with the "Dmap" section, I have added bullet points to the section, and while I was at it, I updated the Doom.exe to TheDarkMod.exe.

 

@mikulabc: If you are currently working with the A-Z Tutorial, would you be so kind and tell me which other parts are outdated or confusing? I will try to update them, when I find the time. This was already suggested in another thread, but it is best, if someone new could report, as more experienced people often can not say which parts are confusing for someone new...


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#17 OGDA

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 05:46 PM

The code example in the section "Creating Text for Books, Scrolls, and Sheets" of the A-Z guide has a different syntax than that generated by the readables editor.

I don't know if it's valid nevertheless, but it was confusing that those differ as I tried for 6 hours to get readables working and didn't know if it was a class, a gui, a TDM cache or a readables code problem.

 

I'm referring to

- backslashes (not used by the readables editor)

- \n newlines (the readables editor just enters a new line in quotation marks)

- page body is set in brackets by the editor

 

----

 

I think the A-Z guide would greatly profit from linking Sothas bakery video tutorials, because they helped A LOT and answered so many questions while showing the "doing". :)



#18 demagogue

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 12:13 AM

It is out of date and there may be some improved or updated techniques that would be good to mention. I did that for the ambient sound. I mean I left the instructions on speakers, but mentioned that a lot people use the Location system and put the link for their reference. There might be other situations like that if a veteran walks through it with a newbie in mind.


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#19 Destined

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 02:34 AM

That's why I asked mikulabc, if he could point to sections that are out of date or confusing as he is apparently currently working with it and can give a newcomer's view on it. It is true that, with the (hopefully) upcoming Steam release, the mapper number will also increase and most newcomers will look at this tutorial, so it would be best if it is as up to date as possible.

 

For creating texts and books, I would generally recommend the Readables Editor, as this is much easier to handle and does not require writing the code yourself. I would leave the part with the code (if it is correct) for the interested reader, but I believe the Editor is better for beginners.



#20 Destined

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 02:38 AM

The code example in the section "Creating Text for Books, Scrolls, and Sheets" of the A-Z guide has a different syntax than that generated by the readables editor.

I don't know if it's valid nevertheless, but it was confusing that those differ as I tried for 6 hours to get readables working and didn't know if it was a class, a gui, a TDM cache or a readables code problem.

 

I'm referring to

- backslashes (not used by the readables editor)

- \n newlines (the readables editor just enters a new line in quotation marks)

- page body is set in brackets by the editor

 

----

The different syntax is mentioned in a box at the end of the section:

 

 
Extra note: There is an alternate xdata format which I think is simpler and used in the prefabs and in startpack. I recommend you use that hereafter.

 

I have not yet watched Sotha's videos. I hope I will find the time for it soon and add them to the tutorial.


Edited by Destined, 03 March 2017 - 02:42 AM.


#21 mikulabc

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 11:22 AM

That's why I asked mikulabc, if he could point to sections that are out of date or confusing as he is apparently currently working with it and can give a newcomer's view on it.

 

http://wiki.thedarkm...ioning_Entities

 

where it says:

  • In the box at the bottom change the team from 3 to 0 which is the player's 'team' and click the check button at its right.

 

this part is grey and cannot be changed, how do i change it if it does not let me?


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#22 Destined

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 11:43 AM

The grey spawnargs are inherited, which means that they are taken from the definition file. When you click on it, the respective spawnarg is chosen below the "main" window. When you now type another value and click the button at its right (or simply hit enter on your keyboard), the inherited value will not change. Instead a new spawnarg with the same name and the new value will be created. You can see that, when you untick "Schow inherited properties". The newly created spawnarg will overwrite the inherited one. The grey ones do not get overwritten, so you can easily check the orignal value, and when you delete the new spawnarg the inherited one is still there, not breaking your entity due to a missing spawnarg.


Edited by Destined, 07 March 2017 - 11:47 AM.


#23 mikulabc

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 11:54 AM

The grey spawnargs are inherited, which means that they are taken from the definition file. When you click on it, the respective spawnarg is chosen below the "main" window. When you now type another value and click the button at its right (or simply hit enter on your keyboard), the inherited value will not change. Instead a new spawnarg with the same name and the new value will be created. You can see that, when you untick "Schow inherited properties". The newly created spawnarg will overwrite the inherited one. The grey ones do not get overwritten, so you can easily check the orignal value, and when you delete the new spawnarg the inherited one is still there, not breaking your entity due to a missing spawnarg.

 

thanks i saw it now that you mention it, i think this should be added to the guide.

 

i also found another one right now while following instructions... the "L" for light inspection is completely changed and does not adhere to instructions at all, the guide gives explanations which are super outdated and not available in the way it is explained, so i had to just figure it out myself, please take a look at these 2:

 

(you will notice how it speaks of settings and steps that are non-existent)

http://wiki.thedarkm....27s_Brightness

http://wiki.thedarkm...sting_the_Light

 

the light brightness settings steps, mentioned once in page 1 and again for now as i am following the guide, on page 2 as i just gave the 2 links where the steps are wrong


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#24 Destined

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 12:11 PM

 

thanks i saw it now that you mention it, i think this should be added to the guide.

done

 

i also found another one right now while following instructions... the "L" for light inspection is completely changed and does not adhere to instructions at all, the guide gives explanations which are super outdated and not available in the way it is explained, so i had to just figure it out myself, please take a look at these 2:

 

(you will notice how it speaks of settings and steps that are non-existent)

http://wiki.thedarkm....27s_Brightness

http://wiki.thedarkm...sting_the_Light

 

the light brightness settings steps, mentioned once in page 1 and again for now as i am following the guide, on page 2 as i just gave the 2 links where the steps are wrong

I tried this myself just now and had no problems with the description. The only thing, that was off for me, was that the brightness is not defaulted to 100, but to 240 as a consequence the brightness required for a "RGB 0.4 0.4 0.4" is not 40, but 96. This is most likely a problem of the colours being displayed as "RGB 1 1 1" or "RGB 255 255 255" (I am not sure, how these conventions are called). I also noticed that the colour window is in my native language, so it might be, that this is taken from some global Windows settings...

What exactly was the problem you experienced here?



#25 mikulabc

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 12:27 PM

What exactly was the problem you experienced here?

 

see the screenshot attached,

  • regarding: http://wiki.thedarkm....27s_Brightness

    • there is no 'Lum:' (luminosity) ... as the guide explains :)
    • or or using the slider to the far right. ... there is no slider.
  • ​regarding: http://wiki.thedarkm...sting_the_Light
    • there is no In Entity Inspector select '_color' ...
    • and you can just type it in at the bottom and 123 in the box below and click the tick(check) button. is not available either

 

ibbE1cJ.png


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