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Yeah I tried that as well, the exact figures as above but r_mode changes to 3 after I start the game. Oh I forgot to mention, I also tried it through console and then vid_restart but that doesn't work as well. Haven't played any TDM mission in a while, but you're saying I can set widescreen settings through the menu?

Just think of your FM as a space station. Perhaps a submarine is a better analogy because I think any leaks are described as 'coming in'. Different modules are made of walls and connected together by doorways sealed by airlocks. The whole space station needs to be sealed against the void and each module needs to be sealed against the other modules except via the airlock when it is open of course. These internal 'airlocks' are visportals. In Dromed these are made automatically and invisibly when you 'portalize'. You see them as black panels sometimes if you get an error in a doorway both in Thief 2 and in Doom3. That is because they go black when closed which you don't normally see because it's inside a closed door or round thenext bend. In Doom3 you make them manually but then you don't need to make 'room brushes' to propagate sound so they cancel out. It becomes second nature to fill a doorway or a bend in a corridor with a visportal. It means the software only has to process the part that the player can actually see and so improves performance. When you drag out a simple solid brush you can click a button to convert it to a room. But all it is doing is converting the one solid brush into 6 panel brushes - 4 walls, ceiling, and floor. Or you can just drag out the panels manually. It seemed odd to me before I started doing it but everyone finds it natural probably within minutes of actually doing it. Take a look at http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?...Getting_Started which is a mission I thought I'd 'nearly finished'.

Melan, before the startpack I still recommend you spend a day or so with the A-Z to build the tiny demo to grasp the basics. You don't need to follow or apply every section. You can skip over things you feel comfortable with. When I said building is only half of it this is the same in Dromed. When you are building raw terrain, progress seems fast. Depending on your methods within weeks you can have lots of rooms. You can build a small mansion in say 3 weeks. Then spend 2 weeks adding AI, readables, setting up objectives, and most important, fixing problems (this varies depending on how techy or how simple you made the FM.) Then a week testing yourself and polishing it off. Then beta testers test it for a week or two. Then you spend a week fixing the stuff the beta testers reported. Some faults. Some recommendations, eg, that climb is too hard. Oh I managed to get over a wall but there is no way back. It's too squeaky clean - needs more dirt and grime decals everywhere. And so on. Finally one more week and you release 9 weeks after you started. Probably you thought you were nearly finished just after the 3 weeks mark when you were adding the details? The above is not to put you off. 9 weeks to build a nice little mansion FM is fine. Just don't consider it finished too early. I 'finished' Nightwatch for Thief 2 about August 2006. I mean, *really* finished it. Terrain, AI, readables, objectives, the lot. Then I started my own thorough game testing. Now of course I had tested everything over and over while developing but now I was polishing it over proper play testing. Every day I scribbled down note of things to fix. pages of them. TWO MONTHS later I submitted it to beta testers expecting they would sail through it and find very little wrong. *WRONG!* It was eventually released at the end of January 2007. Admittedly this was a complex, very techy, 4-mission pack but you get the idea.

Did you read through this page here? http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?...Mod_Differences As you've finished DromEd missions, I don't think this warning about "geometry = half the work" applies to you. It's basically a heads-up for rookie builders, who never built a thiefy mission before. People seem to have the tendency to get DarkRadiant and rush off planning their massive 7 map FM campaign with ground breaking features and open forests and lava! which will of course be finished in two months. They over-estimate pure geometry and under-estimate the amount of work which should go into readables, hints for players, playtesting, bugfixing, balancing. I guess experienced DromEd mappers don't need to be warned of that.

The biggest tip I can give any newcomer is to think small. The most common error beginners make is to have a grand over-ambitious plan that uses up months of effort, become a millstone round your neck and is never finished. This is true not only for the extent of terrain but also size of buildings and views which cause performance problems not even the expert can always solve. Always start with a modest, simple plan with minimum potential technical difficulties. Once you have properly finished your first little mission then you have a better idea what is in store if you try to do something bigger. Consider also that building the terrain is only half of making an FM which leads to the second most common error of beginners - "I've nearly finished!" No you haven't. You're probably about half way. You've only finished when you have done all the lighting, readables, AI and patrols, monsterclipping, visportalling, decal grime, etc. etc. and it's packaged up in a distributable pk4, with fully working objectives and fully tested and approved by beta testers.

I just had to log in and say, congratulations TDM team. This is looking to be a great mod, it's even convinced lazy-ass me to try and make a mission in DarkRadiant. Congrats.

I have created both Thief 2 and Dark Mod FMs and can confirm that to make a similar mission is probably easier and faster in Dark Radiant to produce a Dark Mod FM than the equivalent Dromed FM. This is very subjective of course but what is certain is that there not a lot in it. In other words I guarantee it won't be harder to make a Dark Mod FM. In addition to all that, the end result is always better. For every hour you spend building a Dark Mod FM it is certain to be better quality. So it's better *value* for the same effort. If you drag out a Dromed room and texture it then the same effort in Dark Radiant is bound to look better because the texture quality is far higher. If you insert a model then the quality of that model will be better, and so on. You can drag out a brush in Dromed to produce a simple room and texture it in half a minute in Dromed. You can do a similar thing in Dark Radiant by dragging out a brush. Of course, there is a learning curve but if you start with our guide you will quickly be producing FMs. You can browse through this to get a feel for what is involved. Good luck!.... http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?...e_Start_Here%21

GC: What is the full path to your map? Is it doom3\darkmod\maps ? That is, the common maps folder? If not, what is it? What are you using to run doom3. Is it tdmlauncher? If so, which mission is installed? If not tdmlauncher then what are the command line arguments of the property of the shortcut you are using?

Are you trying to make a doom 3 map or a TDM mission?

Well I just played again and I'm happy to say everything worked perfectly. No squiffy screen resolution, no freezes, no problems with the water. I even got the debriefing screen at the end of the mission. It was rad as hell.

Ok, now with some time to think about it, I think the priorities go like this: 1. Minor: Re-export existing animations so that they use the pauldron joints. Currently there are still several animations that clip the pauldrons on the citywatch. I meant to make a list but haven't gotten to it yet. 2. Some "sitting" animations. Currently, AI can sit, and look great doing it, but they don't actually look like they're *doing* anything while sitting. Animations that simulate the character doing something a sitting person might do, like "eat", "drink", "write in a book" or "turn page" would be useful. 3. Female animations. Right now, we cannot have any female characters in a mission because we are lacking animations for them. I'm not sure whether female characters will need a new skeleton or whether they could make do with the same skeleton but just different animations. However, I think female characters takes precedence over rare monsters like revenants.

Yeah I think Doom is fully patched up. I'm sing the Steam version with RoE so I assume it's all up to date. The video card is an ATI Mobility HD3450, which can run both Doom3 and TDM fine even on Ultra High settings, so I don't think it's overtaxing. My drivers are all up to date as far as I know, but I'm not even sure this card is upported anymore. I think the video settings issue is linked to my laptop's native resolution of 1280x800, which isn't supported in Doom 3's settings. I don't know if that's a problem for TDM. e: The card is supported, and I just got the latest drivers. I think I have a save near the end of the level so I'll give it another shot and see if the mission complete screen appears correctly this time... e: Still nothing.

Well, we HAVEN'T released the mod yet. We have only released some beta missions. I don't think you have any idea how much work goes into getting something to work on "ONE" operating system, let alone EVERY operating system. I mean, that takes in Windows, Mac, and Linux. We're volunteers, with families and jobs, we can't possibly do everything. If you can't get the mod to work, then tell us what problems you're having and we'll try to help you sort it out. Post some error messages, or whatever is happening. Don't just say, "I can't get it to work and you all don't work hard enough". If it's user error(that means you), we can likely point you in the right direction. If it's a technical error with the mod, we'll try to help there too, but an installer would make absolutely no difference if it's a technical error. The only thing an installer would be any good for is placing the beta mission folder in the right spot, and really somebody should be able follow the simple instructions on how to run the mod. If others with Vista 64 are playing it, then you should be alright as well. Long story short, tell what the problem is...don't tell us how to do our work when you don't understand the complexity behind it.

So true. Thief allows a very specific voyeur perspective that can play alongside and intertwine with the mission goals. Widow Moria is an example, or the plot in The 7th Crystal FM. I must get around to playing more FMs.

I know I'm late on the train, but I played through St. Lucia yesterday (only played Thief's Den long ago on a crappy computer) and I must say that I have been almost speechlessly impressed throughout. TDM nails the Thief feeling just right, and that's the point. Going through this thread, I can see that most of my issues seem to have been resolved since last year so I won't comment on them. However, there are two particular points that I haven't seen mentioned : The default doom 3 red mask for death (more like 'masque of the red death' right) or injury is sloppy, enormous, ugly and hurts me inside every time I get hurt :'(. Did you change it since ? I very rarely use combat at all when playing Thief, but still I tried here and was really disappointed. I voiced my opinion on the recent combat gameplay videos on TTLG with a bit of vitriol, and obviously Saint Lucia had the same problems : Animations lack inertia and there's hardly any sense of contact between a weapon and a body. I don't really know how to solve this latter point, maybe the player hitbox are a bit too big, and there should be more 'hurt' animations for the AI. A word to jdude finally : very good job on this small enjoyable mission, really beautiful and fun. Enjoyed it a lot.

Nutshell Review: This map is so awesome it almost made me cry when I played it. ***** Short review: I have, so far, played all 4 missions available for TDM (Thief's Den, St. Lucia, Closemouthed Shadows, and Ship4) several times. I can't get enough. The game looks awesome, the physics are impeccable... its utterly amazing. Seriously, this is just outstanding. I wait with utterly batied breath for any signs of a new map. ***** Detailed critique (for the patient): Things that are better (than the original games): - Graphics. TDM is head-and-shoulders above the original games, or any mod out there. T3 with the texture pack enhancements come very close, as the Doom3 engine accomplishes many of the same things; however, while the two might look similar, the performance of the D3 engine is light years better (once it loads). - Physics. T3 looks great, but feels horrible. It takes approximately forty seven minutes to lean left or right in T3. Jumping in all three games (but especially T3) gives the impression of floating through jell-o; much more realistic here. Mantling is FANTASTIC in TDM - the game seems smart enough to mantle into a small, crouch-sized opening without any idiotic shenanigans or control acrobatics necessary. Mantling from a rope-arrow was effortless and about how I'd expect things to work. Arrows that hit walls bounce everywhere and can be recovered. Objects within objects (Like, say, a key stashed in a boot) are just amazing. There's actually a skeleton in one of the crypts, visible through the cracked lid... it isn't just a texture, it actually appears to be an object. How completely awesome. - AI. Though certainly _not_ without its problems, the AI in the original games and most mods is kind of deaf, dumb, and blind. The AI in TDM is... frightening, frankly. As in, I had to steel myself in order to try to blackjack someone, because these guards are alert and can take you apart very quickly. (This also has something to do with blackjacking's current state of "really, really difficult", but more on that later). - Stealing. In specific, taking an item that is NOT treasure isn't the huge problem it is in T1/2/3... you can put it back down without causing a ruckus, or even making a sound. This fixes the problem loot glint was designed to fix without resorting to being the tacky spectacle that loot glint actually was. Also, the range with which one can steal things feels extraordinary, but not inhuman... well done there. - Blackjacking. In particular, the idea that knocking someone out has to do with a blunt object hitting a skull, and NOTHING to do with how "alert" or "alarmed" a person is. YES to the idea that you can still knock someone out even if they know you're there and are looking right at you - this is how it should have worked all along. As difficult and admittedly buggy as blackjacking still is in St. Lucia, I consider this part of it to be a fix for a bug that originated all the way back in T1. Also, yes to the idea of not being able to knock someone in a helmet out! That's another idea who's time has come. - Dragging bodies. GOD YES. I literally applauded this decision in the comfort of my home while playing. I don't think people realize how hard it actually IS to pick up an unconscious body and heft it around over one's shoulder... you'd have to be REALLY fit to do this as effortlessly as it seems to be done in the games. Dragging, and dragging by body part, no less, is a huge improvement over the originals, even and especially because of the problems it causes (one leg getting caught on a doorframe, etc). (EDIT: just read that you can actually shoulder them, in St. Lucia - haven't tried it out yet, but I hope it is SLOW). - Death animations. Seriously, this is gloriously done. Shoot a broad head into a guard's eye, and tell me that doesn't look completely, fantastically realistic. It is an improvement over the slow-fall deaths in T1&2, and the utterly ridiculous, spring-loaded, body-folds-in-half ragdoll effects of T3. While we're on the topic, the blackjack animation actually looks like a strike with conviction, instead of a gesture. Well-done, there. Things that are as good as the original games: - SWIMMABLE WATER. (Dang, T3... what were you thinking??) - Frobbable highlight (Death to blue. Again, T3, WTF.) - Lighting, provided a shadow can alert a guard (I didn't see any opportunity to test this in any of the missions) - Ability to see/navigate in the lowest of lighting conditions Things that are worse than the original games (aka things I see as "problems" - and I'm leaving out obvious bugs and known issues, like the menu-thing, the texture thing, and the blackjacking difficulty thing; they are bugs, they do exist, but I know they're being adjusted and worked on and people are probably sick to death of hearing about them. Instead, I'm focussing on things that I either haven't seen reported as bugs, or things that appear to be intentional that I don't like. As such, this is going to be a pretty short list, composed almost entirely of minor nit picks): - Candles. Good idea, problematic implementation: Can't pinch 'em out, but you can pick them up. However, if you pick one up and run with it or throw it into water, it stays lit. I think just moving a candle should cause it to go out, unless it is moved very slowly and deliberately. - Oil lantners. They look like you should be able to pinch them out (see above), but I couldn't douse them even with water arrows. Bah! - Sound. Footsteps on stone are far too loud for someone who should know how to walk softly, even in penny loafers (and why does the thief sound like he's wearing penny loafers? I've been saying this since Thief 1, but... shouldn't he be in moccasins or something??). I realize there is a gameplay aspect to this, certainly; footfalls have to make some noise on each surface type. I also realize the mod's mission to stay faithful to the originals. However, if we can improve the status quo (blackjacking regardless of alert status, dragging bodies), then the crux of the complaint is that a thief should have a sound advantage here, the same way he has a light advantage; I would expect that a thief walking on stone would be, say, 50% quieter than a guard walking on stone, all other things (like hard-soled shoes) being equal. And that difference of volume should, IMO, be applied to whether or not a guard gets alerted to a thief's presence. - Sound again - sound seems to propagate everywhere, though I wonder if this is an engine limitation. I didn't notice a volume change when a door is opened or closed (though I DID notice that guards will be less likely alerted to your presence through doors... maybe my imagination?). As such, this is a pathetically minor gripe, but there you go. Also, it'd be nice to lean into a door (like in T3) to "hear" through it, but that's way more RFE than "bug". - Torch light creates still shadows everywhere; I'd expect shadows cast from open flame to flicker (yeah, I'm TOTALLY nitpicking now, especially since this would likely destroy performance in some areas). I can see how candles and oil lamps - things with small, largely un-flickering flames - would cast still shadows, but I kind of expected all the shadows in the crypt to be moving. ***** The bottom line, for me, is that even in its pre-beta condition, The Dark Mod is the rightful heir to the Thief throne. It is very arguably a better looking, feeling, and playing game than T:DS turned out to be, and I'm one of those people who actually liked T:DS and didn't think it deserved as much negative criticism as it got. Bravo, well done, and thank you all for doing this. I can't wait for more.

Yes, but it goes on to say "Alternatively you can use the limited Dark Mod resources provided by the pre-release demo mission Thief's Den" so you can use that or Saint Lucia whichever you have. No. Not sure where you're reading that. When Dark Mod is released you will just choose missions in the Dark Mod menus. But it's not released yet. Only two demo missions have been released so far. So for now, if you are using Thief's Den or Saint Lucia demo you can't select other missions because there aren't any released yet. Follow the A-Z with Thief's Den or Saint Lucia and you can learn how to make an FM.

I'm making a general-purpose splash screen gui for the startpack map. This provides a blank screen with a progress bar the unartistic mapper needs only enter the Title in the gui and any other simple mods they like. They can also enter some simple descriptive text. Alternatively they can provide their own title screen. The plain screen would be better with some dark passive artwork suitable as a background to a header and possibly text that the mapper will add. Several such screens would give the mapper choice. The default screen uses that old progress bar used in Thief's Den which some thought was too modern. I'd like to replace that with one more in the style of the light gem maybe with curly wrought iron decoration. In addition, I want to look to see if it can switch to a new full screen image after loading to show while processing. The doom progress bar ends after loading and then on first load of a big map there can be quite a long time where it looks like the progress bar has reached the end but then crashed. It would be better if it could switch to a new screen with something to indicate the mission is being prepared/processed whatever, even 'please wait' is better than a stuck progress bar. Any suggestions or help with the art for the above would be welcome.

On the objectives menu if I hover the mouse over START THIS MISSION then the highlight text is a larger font size. Shall I track this?

All seasoned watchmen fear Gareh's mighty baguette. So soft on the inside, yet so hard and crusty on the outside - a perfect accompaniment to any unfriendly cranium, and it makes a tasty post-mission snack, too. French battle bread: So tasty! So deadly! Accept no substitutes.

If you do the A-Z tutorial, you'll be fluent enough to make a playable mission. You could do it in one day, or 2 or 3 sessions of an hour or two. After that, you might make an original (small) FM to apply what you learned, and learn a few new things along the way, and you could do that in a month or two.

It's not hard at all to make a mission with the basics. If you ramp it up from there, difficulty climbs accordingly (as with DromEd). If you go through the A-Z guide, you'll be in the swing of things very fast. DarkRadiant is an excellent tool and TDM is quite flexible.

Drop one "t" and I love it! Man, this is so exciting!!!!!, it will be better than Christmas ( gift-wise) when this comes out. Even after years of playing games devised with DM, I'll be at times mentally thanking you guys for it! What a lot of work & dedication!!!!!!! Once my time frees up (~ wintertime) , I am DEFINETELY going to making some of the games - my 15 year old daughter wants to build some too, so this will be a fun father-daughter project Just curious, and no need to be accurate, but what is your feeling as to how long it would take for someone with NO experience at all in making any kind of game whatsoever, to be pretty fluent with building a mission with DM? Is Benny a FM character or T2 character, was just wondering if he will make an appearance or if he is copyrighted or something...... Thanks

A prototype mission and city plus writing documentation on the ArmA 2 system of objectives, and also testing have prevented me from looking into this much. I doubt tonight I'll get a chance but tomorrow evening I hopefully will.

If the biggest issue is no access to things like the objectives & S/R editors, so you have to enter all those spawnargs in by hand, that's not the end of the world. Doing objectives (the only one I think you absolutely have to have) would basically be what it's like for Dromed, you have to enter each one in by hand, but you only have to do it once and it's pretty straightforward if you have a tutorial. S/R and conversations would be tougher, but you don't need that for a mission. I was wondering about things like finding textures and objects in an organized fashion, and that you can see everything TDM-special thing going on in the editor. Are there other editors that use the old format? That would argue for DR to be compatible with it so it could adopt maps from multiple other sources (whenever they consider doing something to deal with this down the road, which might be a while given other priorities). Of course, rooting out the crash Albert is having with DR would be even better.