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Is that for sure? Because in trying to update, I'm getting told (this is from memory, I don't have CVS open right now) : "file: darkmod\models\props\loot\plate1_d.tga no longer exists in the repository" And then I check locally, and my "CVS-syncing" folder is empty......... yet the "working" copy of the folder (which is from an old update) contains the file. So it looks as if with regard to my sync folder, it's been removed. Yet it wasn't removed by me... Cue creepy music?

THe lights in the game should be mostly candles, torches, gas lamps, fireplaces etc anyway - that means open flames. Flames are NOT bright, only artifical lights look harshly bright.

We have made a design decision that we are not coding it to support multiplayer initially. That would require a lot of extra coding and workarounds that would slow down our progress as we try to get the base elements down. When we release, it will be open sourced, so anyone who wants to try to get it to work with multiplayer is welcome to try.

I think it would be quite possible for a master thief to pinch a necklace without the victim noticing, and brooches, tiaras, pocket watches etc Rings would probably be impossible without alerting the AI. This would be for any open street encounters where the AI is't automatically afraid of you.

Personaly I like to have a small powerdvd window open in a corner and have one of my dvd's playing. Which is lots of fun when I build the bsp :lol: Currently Ive just started on the James Bonds, after finishing of the pixar's I own (finding nemo is Ok but is their worst imho). I finaly got On her majesty's secret service after about a year of looking. I cant stand George L but the story isnt bad, besides I had to compleate the set didnt I.

I don't suppose my opinion means too much considering I haven't had the privilage of reading through your production discussions, etc... but because of that I am forced to reluctantly take to the gamers perspective on this subject. A few simple "gamer's" opinions which support what everyone is saying: a) When playing any game which falls into the same category as Theif does, I will never, ever cease to be entralled by, and overjoyed with the realness that developers can integrate into their game. The closer to real life the game is, the more the player can relate to it, thus the better the game becomes. Obviously, during production these factors will always exist: Time, Budget (?), Technical Ability, & Necessity. Apparently those have been discussed amognst you, and documented accordingly. This shows professionalism. There's really no way you can argue with what has been determined to be the optimal way to integrate certain elements of the game once they have been measured up against the above factors. Which i think might be the reason for the frusteration of your team members, oDDity. c) Lastly, my opinion of this specific element of gameplay (being the black-jackery of unsuspecting, 'technically advanced medival folk') is that the more real you can make it. the better. I would hardly call this an arcade game. The object of each level, should never be to steal a certain amount of money, cuz that's just ridiculous. A thief is unscroupulous to say the least. He's not some good hearted guy, with tons of self motivation. There is no such thing as ALLADIN. What ODDity mentioned about risk factors and such are very very smart ideas. In a case when stealing is the character's occupation, he should not be limited to this environment to steal from -- in reality he could attain gold (if he REALLY needed it badly) from any other person, household, or safehouse in the village (with the exception of special artifacts, which was mentioned above). I feel that if there is any reason why the guards shouldn't wake up, wake each other up, or brew up a massive search of the entire buildling, it should be because of a restriction on Time, Budget, or Technical Inability. I fully feel that there is a 'Necessity' to make this style of game as real as possible, and the whole risk factor of guards that can randomly wake up and potential alert other guards after being brain beaten makes a WHOLE LOT OF SENSE. 'Nuff said. oh 1 more thing -- i totally second the notion of using techniques to permenatly incapacitate K.O.'d people by binding them up with rope, shackles, or locking them into rooms (with the option of passing guards within the sound radius to hear their pleas to open the door). Again, it's more work -- but it adds sooo much more realism, fun, and strategy to the game. If you don't want to turn your gamers into a group of knife weilding rambos, then you must provide them with other alternatives. Never-waking K.O.'s is just a cop-out in my opinion.

I disagree. I mainly quick saved a lot in Thief for a couple reasons: 1 ) Because it's a slow-moving game and a lot of time and energy is sometimes involved with safely going from Point A to Point B (to C, D, E, F, etc.) and I don't want to do any of it all over again *if* something goes wrong (e.g., I trigger one NCP who triggers the whole castle's worth of NCPs so I then have 15 guards after me; I get unfairly shot and killed by arrows launched when stepping on a secret platform or moving in front of a camera; or if I just accidentally upset the wrong guard.) I just got to a point where I found it a waste of time (and no fun) to re-do stuff. 2 ) Create save points throughout a level that I can go back to and either re-play if I liked the moments, or quickly show a friend the cool area or situation if I wanted. I think ( 1 ) is the biggest for me, but I'll think about it more. I'm sure I can think of more reasons 'why' but I need to get going here. I have lots of confidence in my playing abilities and decision-making. That's not really the issue for me. Although I could play very slowly (even slower than I already play Thief) to mostly avoid those circumstances in ( 1 ), I think I sometimes go insane if I go too slow or if I've done so much that I don't want to lose my work. Imagine working on a 3-D model in Lightwave for 3 hours without saving and then all the sudden something goes wrong (either system or human error) and you've lost a bunch or all your work. Would you really have the patience to eagerly do it again? Heck, if I write an email for 5 minutes and lose it I get p*ssed that I have to re-type it. BUT, again, I'm keeping an open mind with my future endeavors in game-saving. Aside from game crashes, I might enjoy the painstaking work of very slowly going through a game, or re-doing levels if I need to. Although, going once through Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 levels was enough for me. I would dread to have to go through them again. Heck, I even dreaded going back 2 minutes to my last QuickSave in those games to re-do areas. The games weren't bad, I just sometimes got bored of the repetition and wanted to rush through the levels from the boredom. Re-doing levels in a game like Thief might be different, though -- I think.

well Oddity obviously saw the model when he took that screen..so if there was something wasnt allright about it he would have noticed it.. but Oddity,calm down it wasnt nitpicking,and even if the boots were big they could be scaled in no time..(by that i do not claim the boots big, just remembering you to be open to constructive critism;)

I agree the loot hunt is kind've lame, that's why we should have an option to set the percent loot down if you want. That's why we're making these playstyle options, for the very reason that someone might want to turn the AI all the way up and then set loot percentage to an "easier" value. I don't think the argument of what a "real thief" would do works though. Remember we're not just playing a smash & grab burglar, we're playing an artist, who paints the canvas of others' worldly posessions with negative space. Also, the "real thief" argument could be applied to blackjacking vs ghosting too. In real life, people do not move on predictable tracks, always looking straight ahead of them like cardboard cutouts. Supposing you have to move thru a brightly lit area with 5 AI walking back and forth thru it. A real thief under a time constraint (like get out before the sun comes up) is not going to sit there for 20 minutes timing all the peoples' motions until they find a "sweet spot" where they can run thru the lit area with no one looking. Real people are not predictable like that. If forced to take a well-lit route patrolled by several guards, a real thief would even up the odds by knocking a few people out (ie, ambushing them in completely dark areas of their patrol). This also applies to crossing behind a stationary guard in a well lit area, esp if your path out of and back into the shadows will put you "out of reach" of the guard. In real life, would you just cross and hope the person doesn't randomly turn around, then scream out an alarm before you can get to them to silence them? Or do you get as close as you can to the guard while staying in shadow, wait for them to turn around and then KO them, THEN worry about crossing the well lit area? I would argue that the KO option is more viable for a "real thief," since in real life you can never be assured that a person will not randomly glance your way while you're taking 10 seconds to cross a fully lit area behind them. The consequences of them glancing back and seeing you may be death, and in life you don't get to reload. So I think a real thief would not so easily decide to abandon an open shot at the back of the guard's head in favor of a risky crossing behind them and hoping they don't look back (The best option is probably to cross closely behind them with the blackjack raised, ready to strike if they turn around, but sometimes the path to the shadows on the other side of the area you want to cross doesn't let you stay that close to them.) (As a side note, this is completely OT, but this is another reason to make AI have a lot of random actions, like glancing behind them when on patrol. I'm tired of feeling like I'm ghosting past cardboard cutouts on tracks that will always keep looking the way they're walking unless I make a noise to alert them. Yes it will make ghosting harder, but it will also make it feel a lot more real, which makes it worthwhile IMO) Anyway, sorry to rant. What I'm saying is: sometimes it's more realistic to KO people rather than try to ghost by them, but that shouldn't stop us from letting people choose a "ghosting" playstyle to get more challenge. Similary, it may be more realistic (as well as easier) to go in, find a few choice pieces of loot, and get out, but that should not stop us from letting people choose a higher loot requirement to add more challenge.

I could, but then that limits it to only being used outside. I'd rather use decals for adding dirt and things to textures just to keep our options open.

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 : Narrow-minded \Nar"row-mind`ed\, a. Of narrow mental scope; lacking tolerance or breadth of view; illiberal; mean. Opposite of broad-minded, open-minded, liberal. [WordNet sense 2] [Narrower terms: dogmatic, dogmatical ; little, petty, small, small-minded] Syn: narrowminded, narrow, illiberal, intolerant. [1913 Webster + WordNet 1.5] 2. Capable of being shocked by behavior of others. Opposite of unshockable. [WordNet sense 1] Especially the first interpretation is quite interesting.

As long as you ar enot openly hostile (meaning you are carrying a weapon out in the open) guards should not bother you on the street in a normal environment.

As I posted already above, the easiest way would be to align the rotation axis wioth the back of the lid, so that we can open it with the same code that is also used for doors. Because a chest is basically a room with a door.

I forgot I already did a jewelry box, but there's no harm in having two. I'll have this game ready pretty soon. How are we handling these contaniers anyway. Are we having them as md5meshs and anims, so when you frob them the lid swings open,m and then you can look in and frob the loot? THat would be the best way.

Do HT CPU's really have two cores though? I asked a coworker about that, and he said that it was most likely "faking" 2 cores, so some combination of the chipset BIOS and the OS software makes it act like it has 2 cores, but it does not actually. Maybe turning HT off in the bios will stop this faking operation and let a non-HT program use more of the whole processor instead of fake-dividing the processor in 2? Unfortunately I can't change this app at all; it's commercial simulation software that's not open sourced. It does support "cluster" processing. I wonder if it could be hacked to view the fake "2nd core" on an HT CPU as another machine in a cluster... I dunno. Btw yeah I did put it under full load in one copy and it was 50% of the CPU. I haven't tried running two copies of the app yet, but I imagine it will take up 100% as you said. So I guess I could at least run 2 different simulations at the same time to save a little time. You'd think these bastards would support modern CPU technology at the prices they charge for their software Hmm... maybe I could use the supported "clustered computing" to trick it into running 2 threads and going back and forth between for calculations. IE, cluster #1 is running on localhost, cluster #2 is a 2nd copy of the program also running on localhost (or some network mask that redirects it back to me) ... maybe.

Ok, i think you're making this a little more complicated than it aught to be. You'd only need a flowing curtain if it's an unfolded curtain near an open window. If it's a curtain that blocks rooms (like they had in that level in Thief 2 where you're casing the joint), or is a tied up curtain, or things like hanging ropes, chandeliers, or any hanging thing, it needs no animation and an AF would be easy to use for it. And then we could possibly get the AI to recognise and notice usually still objects moving (say you move through a curtain and it's still swaying when when the guard comes and he could get suspicisous). A nice thing about Doom 3's AFs is that they don't keep flopping around the place like other rag dolls. They become still after a while.

Hmmm... I read twice through the posting and haven't seen it. Which only leaves open the question how the player can see which weapon he currently has selected. In case of the blacjack it's no issue, but in case of the bow he can see only the bow until he pulls the string. With only the number this doesn't help much. So we have an icon where he can see the weapon, and the number is somehwere else? Not a good solution. Or do we have an ultra tiny weapoin icon, that you can barely see, just to not occupy the 30 pixels from the 320x256 display, that people usually use these days, and such a big icon would obviously clutter up the screen.

Yes. Snapping the player into place isn't cool. Needless to say, I'm enjoying the minimalist theme we've got going here. Since the compass can be toggled off and on, we are pretty much wide open where we can put it.

Would be nice if you could show it. Since this is not nailed down right now, we can still eave this open and not close down on a solution to early. Yeah. The model anims would be good, because Cory can work with them once they are finished, and this would be another big step forward. IMO the arms are currently not so urgent. And which weapon anims are this? The bow and blackjack? Since we currently have no use for the arms, I would prefer to have the priority on the guard model and then the weapon anims, so we have one feature finished, instead of opening a host of problems and none finished.

I tried it with two different FMs and got the same problem, but I'll check. edit: nope, same problem "Open File Error: Unexpected Error" Guess I'll have to reinstall.

Here is an example of some of my work: my Mercenaries mod. Some information, which is also included in the readme file... Mercenaries Beta 1.0 ==================== 1. Load the mod from the Doom III Mods Menu. 2. Load a map 3. Open the console(ctrl+alt+tilde(~)) 4. type: "spawn mercenary" 5. Have fun Features ======== - Monitors self-activity - Idling, Following, Attacking, etc... - Follows the player around - Keeps a minimum and maximum distance - Decides weather to run or walk - Catches up if the player gets too far, is out of sight, or is unreachable - Attacks enemies - Handles crouching, strafing, and running attacks - Is extremely accurate and powerful - Regenerates health - Fastest regeneration rate when idling, followed by following and attacking - Unique look - Bald head, zsec body Tracking the Mercenary ====================== All Mercenary output is written to the console. Minor beta problems =================== Many of the places in the single player doom 3 maps are not designed to handle AI paths. If the mercenary cannot reach your position or if his distance from you becomes too great, he will quickly spawn to your position and catch-up. The effect is a little weird but it's not permanent. If you lose your mercenary, which sometimes happens, just spawn another for now. **************************************** ************************* **************************************** ************************* Link: http://www.freewebs.com/coryv/Mercenaries.rar If necessary, I'll post up more later. Thanks, Cory

If you don't want to do your own code additions, then not. The idea of the mod is to provide a fulyz functional seperate code base so that you can create AND play FM missions based on the TDM universe. You don't even need to download the SDK, because when we open the source, the code is so intermingled with the SDK codebase that we can not seperate it, even though I would prefer this for various reasons. Since the SDK provides not API but the actual classes that are used for Doom 3 gameplay, there is no way how this can cleanly be seperated without a lot of overhead (and not even then).

So for sound propagation, a suspicious sound is approximated as an impulse sound (square pulse in 1/60th of a second (1 frame ) ). I'm going to make a "def file" for sounds, so you sound designers will provide a "base volume" and a "frequency band" (the frequency band is very simplified, it will just be one of 6 options I think: very low, low, mid, high, very high and ALL. Then when you play the sound on an entity, you can modify the base values for the sound (for example running on stone is louder than walking on wood, so if the default footstep is walking on wood, multiply the base volume by a multiplier when the player is running on stone). Now, I was thinking: Ogg vorbis sound format is completely open sourced. It would be cool if we could do an analysis of a sound automatically to get the base volume and frequency band numbers. If we did this, frequency band wouldn't have to be so simplified either: it could have the actual Fourier coefficients of the sound when it's decomposed into frequency components in those bands, rather than simple bits (this would take up a little more RAM, but whatever). So basically my crazy idea is: Write a program that takes in a list of Ogg Vorbis sounds. It decodes the sound, calculates some sort of max volume (maybe time averaged around a short time on either side of the peak volume). This is used to generate the "base volume" for the sound prop. impulse sound approximation. (ie, when the sound is propagated to AI, it just has this base volume on a square wave 1/60th of a second long). 2nd, the program performs a Fourier transform of the volume vs. time data for the sound, and gets the fourier coefficients for various frequencies. It then puts these into one of our divisions (say we divide the audible frequency spectrum into 8 bands or something like that), and also normalizes all of them such that all the coefficients added up equals 1. Do you sound designers know of a program that does something like this with Ogg Vorbis sounds? I found the Ogg Vorbis SDK here: http://www.vorbis.com/download_win_1.0.1.psp Anyway, if there's an existing program that does something close to this, we might be able to get this in by the first milestone. I'm not going to attempt to write it from scratch though, so if not, you guys might have to deal with putting in by hand, for each suspicious sound, something like: "soundname = footstep_default", "baseVol = 25 dB" and "freq = freq_mid + freq_very_high" or something like that, in a def file.

I'm pretty open to suggestions.

Played it, it looks good, but the linearity of the mission was really dissapointing. If the real game has more open non-linear levels, i might get it.