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JC, I'll show you specifically what I really like about the screens and what I'm personally not a fan of. I'm curious how much is the HDR, how much is customizable and how much might just be something about the map. 1 & 2: I really like the way your HDR brings out the edges of things. In the default shot of #1 the wagon is nearly invisible. The way the light picks up edges really makes things more 3d, and that's an effect I think is quite desirable. 3: The peaked roof seems really overbright in spots, especially the bright blue seams. Also, the entire building seems REALLY brightly lit, compared to the original shot, where it is almost in darkness. 4: The leather on the arm seems too highlighted, IMO, as if it's been given a strong specular. That and the arrow both seem to have the "plasticky" look that D3 is infamous for.

I'm interested in finding out more about the time periods in our own history which The Dark Mod is loosely based on, to help provide some background and inspiration for a storyline I'm working on. I came across an interesting looking book today which could offer some inspiration, though I really wanted a more 'grounded' historical look at the middle ages (with a particular emphasis on the early medieval feudal system) and the Victorian era. I'm hoping to get a better feeling for what constituted 'everyday life' for the various different classes of people, as well as a broader overview of the political, social and economical environments which led to things like war, plague etc. I'm hoping that posting this here will be rewarding, given we're all somewhat familiar with this setting (both from TDM and previous games) and have a good idea of what would be useful, and also that this thread could become a list of useful references for FM designers to visit. So, please post your thoughts, recommendations and links to books or websites, videos even. Whatever you think might help FM makers create stories with rich backgrounds and missions with a feeling of historical authenticity.

It does look very nice. I especially like the lit roof on shots 62 and 64. But it could really become tricky for mappers, since it changes all the lighting in the map. A mission that is perfectly ghostable might not be ghostable anymore with this enhancement or vice versa. Maybe a little bit of tweaking and no overexaggeration of this effect could help here. Anyway, you mentioned postprocessing, which I am highly interested in. Things like Mapper-controlled screentinting and desaturation would be awesome. This would enable mappers to create missions with a seemingly whole new appearance. For those of you who know the Thief 2 Fanmission "Saturnine's Rose Cottage": I have been thinking a lot about what made this mission look so damn good and I came to the conclusion that it's the fact that those custom textures blend in really well together and that the whole map is presented in a certain colortone. My next question was, how one could achieve such a look in TDM and my personal answer was, either by creating a full set of textures or by using postprocessing, especially desaturation and screentinting...

It's more of a mission specific thing really. Just like Dromed authors have to do certian things to maintain good performance, they are just slightly different things than Dromed. But this missions performance is being worked on and I think will be pretty decent once finalized.

Well, either you select them under "Other styles" in the editor menu (next to "Fonts"), or you type [ spoiler ] [ /spoiler ] (without the spaces, similar to the "quote" and "/quote" tags).

Also, that thread that I've been linking to is full of reviews from many different players and fan mission authors - you are more than welcome to post your own review, and it is encouraged

Hello all, I am working on a Thief 2 mission (sequel to Unholy Vivid Innocence). There are a couple of ambient music tracks in TDM that I really like; I was wondering what are the terms of using TDM resources in T2 missions (proper credit will be given of course). Is it allowed? Thanks.

Holy awesome! This is easily the best "explorer's" mission for TDM. Fan-damn-tastic! Very nice use of sound and ambient. Too bad none of the background speakers use the spawnarg "s_music", so the ambient volume slider has no effect on their volume. I really, really, want to give it a 5-5-5 score...but the visportals need work. For real. Badly. There are overlapping visportals (which cause bad performance, and buggy/crashing behavior.) There are also massive-sized portals that do so much more harm than good: I may be inside a closed building, but since that huge visportal is there, large sections of the outdoors are still being rendered. There are some missing visportals in windows and openings, so some indoors aren't being sealed up. Also related to that, there are some internal leaks: visportals aren't totally sealing and creating visleafs in some outdoors. My computer which doesn't cough at Crysis "very high" was chugging away 14fps in spots. With proper working visportals, I could at least double that fps.

[edit]Please note that this version of Return to the City has been superseded by an expanded and significantly performance-optimised rerelease, available here. However, I'd appreciate if some of these download links were left around so people can check out the original version if they wish.[/edit] Hello, Taffers! My FM for the Grand Christmas FM Contest, Return to the City, has been completed and available at TTLG (updated Hammers-into-Builders version) www.darklurker.com (updated Hammers-into-Builders version) www.uploading.com (Hammers-into-Builders update) www.mediafire.com (Hammers-into-Builders update) www.mediafire.com (second link - thanks, Vexd) (Hammers-into-Builders update) www.sharebee.com (thanks, Chiron!) (Hammers-into-Builders update) Have fun, and please read the release notes, below! (Especially point 1) Last but definitely not least, thanks are due to my beta testers, who have been very helpful in finding and fixing the bugs that have cropped up, as well as everyone on the TDM forums for their help and support. Thank you! Series information: All of my missions except Unbidden Guest (TMA) take place in a common setting and involve the same protagonist, although under different aliases - Talbot, Messer Johannes, Philby and others. None of them require previous knowledge of previous FMs, but there are common elements and a degree of continuity. The missions, in current order, are: Prowler of the Dark (TDP/Gold) (S): liberate a skull of paganic enchantment from an abandoned church, which is kept sealed and guarded by the Builders.Return to the City (The Dark Mod) (M): plunder the other side of the Builder complex to steal a pack of explosives. Patrols have been heightened because of the recent break-in. (This mission connects to the previous along the North/South axis - too bad I didn't have the time to let you revisit some old areas) (You are here!)Fiasco at Fauchard Street (The Dark Mod) (M): steal a collection of opals from the house of a wealthy usurer.Bad Debts (TMA) (XL): fallen on hard times, you take a job from a diminutive snitch to steal his letter of debt from Markus, a pawnshop owner/usurer (looks like a common theme). Rooftop extravaganza.Disorientation (TMA) (XL): following the events in the previous mission, you attract the unwanted attentions of Lady Azamlarg, district warden and judge, and have to break into her palace to deter her from further assassination attempts. More rooftops and conspiracies.

No, the correct fix for the unfrobable bug is at: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/10371-chest-footlocker-prefabs-glitch-correction-howto/page__view__findpost__p__203766

Yes, NH, but there are some really cool Fan missions out there. Just be courteous, and ask the author first before remaking their mission. And give them credit; that's their hard work you're emulating.

We've tried to be as vocal about this as possible, but it's understandable that not everyone will hear about everything. Remakes of T1, T2 or T3 missions can not be supported by the TDM team. It would be illegal, and from our perspective disrespectful to Eidos Interactive. We have been ever so careful to show respect for their property by making TDM similar, yet different to Thief. TDM is 'inspired' by T1 and 2...so if any missions are 'inspired' by a Thief mission, or in a similar spirit...that would be fine, but it can not be an out and out remake...at the very least we can't support it. Also, there is a fix for the large save files. I think there is a link to it on our wiki.

Hi, demagogue! Thanks for the great mission! I played with the highest difficulty, just for more fun, and it appeared too hard - I had to check this thread several times to find out what to do next. I had the "too large save" problem, leading the game to crash during quick load, but I resolved it by loading an earlier save. Someone mentioned AI as possible cause, and I probably agree - it is something intermittent and connected to dynamic processing and needs to be saved/loaded, so AI fits best. Warehouse rules, I felt like in a horror movie. The murderer did not see me though, as I am used to move along the walls, where it is darker. The whole story was great, but maybe you should've allowed more freedom to the player to go through pieces in differnt orders, except the warehouse, of course. If I was responsible for T4, I would hire you and some other folks, who made great FMs! Looking forwad for more missions, maybe some remakes of T2 FMs. P.S. I have played a few missions, but only in this one I had to learn that I am able to shoulder bodies!

Well here's the first FM I created. There were a few setbacks but all in all it was a joy to work with Dark Radiant. If anyone is still doubting, please don't, it's quite easy when you get used to it. About: A mansion mission. This is the first part of my campaign. Find out what happened to a fellow member of the guild and learn more about Lord Nelson, the owner of the mansion. Build time: I don't know exactly. I played around a lot to figure everything out. Best guess is about a month effectively, before beta testing. Thanks: Thanks to the TDM team for this awesome mod. Special thanks to everyone who assisted me on the forums. Super special Thanks: My beta-testers 7upMan and lostbuthappy. Known issues: Lamps look lit when switched off. Ambient music of two zones start playing at the same time after quickloading. Tried a work around so it's very likely you won't notice/have it. Challenge: Play without switching off lights, otherwise it might be a bit easy. Here's the link: http://www.mediafire.com/?m4ywobjodm0 I hope you all enjoy it and please vote

I like missions that give a sense of the environment being part of a larger world. To me that is more important than plot. Readables that give the impression that the people walking around the place have lives, goals, and personalities are important. Not every readable needs to be directly related to the mission at hand...in fact it feels artificial when that is the case.

Not really, the lock is an integral part of the model. Another frobbable lock could be stuck on top of the first but it would have to be done by the FM maker anyway. Also a frobbable chest body helps to stop the player frobbing right through the side of the chest which is a bit odd even when open. It is not a complete solution but it does help to have a higher crouch so you can lean over better but I could not get support for this. I never liked the really low crouch which is virtually a high crawl. If anyone wants to know how to convert so they can toggle between mid crouch and crawl heights then let me know. It does NOT break missions, ie, it won't let you get into places the FM maker didn't want you to. You can still only go as low as you do now. I've used it maybe over a year and it's great.

I appreciate something that whilst giving the player clues as to how to complete the mission also tells a compelling story itself. And if it has emotional impact that is all the better. Case in point: The 7th Crystal. This is one of my favourite FMs and not just from a gameplay POV. In fact the map and the gameplay are just ok. Its a solid mansion mission but that plot adds such a great flavour to it all. I'll put up a summary here with spoiler tags. Only read if you have no intention of playing it, please, because you don't want to spoil this for yourself. Briefly This is told through multiple small readables. There are no 8 pagers, I don't think, and it was much easier to digest this way. In addition it's almost like an evolving story because you put the pieces together yourself. If I ever get around to making my 2 FMs you'll get the plot delivered this way and to me the plot is actually as important as any other aspect of my FMs plans. Anyway, 7th Crystal is a fricking masterwork imho and the level of detail, the care and attention, and the emotions it stirs are right up there. I need to play some more Thief 2 FMs because some of the plots were :drool: This was always one of the great things about the Thief FM scene - there were people doing interesting stuff with it, not just sneak and steals. Benny's Dead is another one with an interesting side plot (the scientist's discovery of the "sewer people") which is both spooky as hell but and incidental, yet somehow integral, to the main story.

Biker, here's the fix for the non-solid footlockers: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/10497-chests-footlockers-non-solid-bug-fix/page__view__findpost__p__206330

An issue has been raised about what makes a good story in an FM. This is for both players and FM makers. Your views are welcome. A quick search at ttlg only finds: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122058&highlight=story but this seems to be mainly pre-occupied with what specifically makes a good Thief story, eg, why is Garrett an interesting 'hero'. But obviously a really good story is not so restricted and I thought T2X was a good story for instance, not to mention the great classics of literature even without Mr. G. My ten cents: The topic actually breaks down into three parts: Grammar, actual story or story design, and story telling 'Story telling' is the methods used to convey a story. A movie director will (has to) tell a story quite differently from how it is told in a novel. In FMs we use readables, audible conversations, actions and what might be called 'stage setting' - eg a room with broken furniture strewn about, an open safe, and a dead body, tells part of a story at a glance. So we are somewhere between the novel and the movie. Readables carry both story and clues. Short and quickly grasped is generally reckoned to be best but sometimes one cannot help but take many pages to explain something. I'm guilty of that in my next FM. I am very expert at abbreviating text having worked for years writing ultra-compact text and graphic pages. Give me ten lines and I can usually reduce them to five and say almost exactly the same thing. Nevertheless, my next FM includes some text I cannot reduce less than 8 two-page spreads! I might have to somehow produce a summary so players in a hurry can just read that while others who like to read or who want a fuller explanation can read the original. How to do that? In Nightwatch I provided player notes. After reading anything of significance, Garrett made a brief note. Get blue key from red desk in 3rd room. But it is technically difficult to *add* notes especially if the player finds them in a random order. But another trick I might try in my next FM would be another character has read the lengthy account and for some reason made brief notes. Quality of story is something that can only partly be taught and only a tiny number of graduates will have best-sellers. Grammar is straightforward and if we didn't pay attention at school then we need only ask for someone to proof-read and correct our efforts. The impact of a good story depends somewhat on the player. The gung-ho hack and slayer will probably not get too involved with story. Others can immerse themselve more deeply and this is the only way I can endure testing my own FMs over and over ad nauseum. I confess I have choked up a few times (too rarely) in some Thief FMs when I occasionally get a deep sense of what I call 'being present'. And once I was actually unable to steal some poor girl's ring such was the power of the nearby love letter. Good job I had my loot quota right? The possibilities for good story telling are infinite. I see no reason why a great literary classic might not be produced as an original video game. And I don't mean converting a literary classic but the game is a classic story in its own right.

Got it installed, big card, had to clean up/redo some wiring. Nice so far though, did a quick ingame check in Living_expenses. Was getting about 20-25 before which has always been average for me with this comp in DarkMod. Now it's pegged at 60 with or without vsynch. Kindof makes me wonder if vsynch was still on after restart but didn't think to check, I'm tired. And that's under clocked Was a factory OC so I dropped it down close to the non-oc vers (1050 ram speed instead of 1125, 650 cpu clock instead of 755). This card has kindof a high pitch hum when the fan cranks though, a bit annoying but I'll probably get used to it. Got a free Dirt2 with it so that'll be cool, always liked McCrea rally series, this one's got Direct X 11 stuff so it should be sweet.

Hi Fidcal - am a Thief fan from the 1st game. Really enjoying the TDM, and your Chalice mission - but I am encountering crash probs. 1st time I played I found the game would crash whenever I unlocked certain doors, which led me to try altering video settings - which seemed to leave the perspective skewed and the resolution very blocky, no matter how I tried to alter it thereafter. I had to reinstall the TDM into the darkmod folder, overwriting the files, then restarted. This time I am not going anywhere near the vid settings - but now I am in the barracks room, have sapped the mullet-hair guy, got his key, and heading back out, only thats where it crashes. I played Outpost before this without any problem at all. Any suggestions?

@Bikerdude: OK, I've tracked the non solid footlocker to a bug which I'll report on the internal forums. It might mean you only need to change a spawnarg but I don't know how long before I can tell you so if you are desperate to proceed try this: Create a slim panel brush and give it the texture: textures/common/tdm_nodrawsolid_wood and place it inside the front panel of the footlocker body. Probably not worth bothering with the side or back if the thing is against a wall. Test carefully it does not cause any other problems!

It's a different beast, it's ok but rather slow to work with. I worked on making an enhanced version for awhile, but left it when I couldn't really get any further due to limitations. Dark Radiant is made by fans for the fans, and when you look at what we've been able to accomplish in 5 years with our small team...creating an entire toolset, and putting out 10 missions since release, I feel it's fair to say DR is probably going to be the easier mapping tool to work with.

I didnt mean to have it implemented in the TDM-Missionloader, i meant to have it on the TDM website on the FM's section. Of course it does not reflect the own opinion on the missions, but still... if 50 people rate it a crap then its gotta be a crap . Unless those guys are crap themselves hehe. As StiFu said, its useful to sort the missions if you like to have quality. Might not seem to be useful atm with only a double handful of missions on the TDM site, but imagine there d be plenty and you have no idea which to load. Still only a suggestion, don't sneak up on me!

Should have added . Screen freezes and I have to use control - alt - delete to shut program down. Am on Windows 7 but will try it on laptop ( withWindows xp ) when I have time. Any ideas on how to solve this gratefully accepted though ! Seems to me that the playability of some of these new missions depends a lot on your graphics card / settings of this or am I jumping to the wrong conclusion ?.