where are the missions localization/how now works the localization system

[ECHELON]

Hello everybody,

i'm back to ask some things:

 

-in another thief site, i linked the missions localizations and the 1.08 missions and now i saw they were offline from tels server. So the first question is: all the localization work is lost? more than 150 hours thrown in the trash?

 

-second question: how this 2.0 version work with localization (if it works)?

[demagogue]

Tels server wasn't lost, but it was taken offline from this update. So I'm sure that work is all still there. And IIRC 2.0 didn't change anything involved with it, so there's no obvious reason why it wouldn't work I can think of. But Tels can answer all this for himself if/when he comes back around.

[gnartsch]

http://www.thedarkmod.com/missiondb/get_available_missions.php

 

There are many reasons why localizations do not work - at least not if downloading via the ingame downloader.

Barely any localization link can be found in that list.

On the few which are listed there refer to dead links, the mission itself or to files which only contain the english localization, but nothing else.

Haven't seen anything that may eventually give you any mission in another language then english.

[grayman]

If you need to get to materials stored on Tels' server, so that they can be moved elsewhere, you'll need to find someone who knows how to reach him outside this forum. He left in May and we haven't seen him since. It's possible he might not wander back in.

[7upMan]

I have his private email address. I'll be sure to ask him.

[ECHELON]

Thanks for replies guys.

 

However even if Tels returns, the main problem persists: each time dark mod is updated, the missions should be converted to work with translations. Because the great part of mappers does not want to do this job, i don't think dark mod missions will have a translation in the future.

But maybe i'm wrong...

[demagogue]

Does it really have to happen every time TDM is updated? Ver 2.0 was just a one-time special update where new FMs had to be re-released. Other updates won't be like that.

[7upMan]

I have no idea. I am no programmer, and I just supplied Tels with translations and some insight, because, frankly, I have no idea how the i18n system works.

 

Unfortunately, Tels so far has not replied to my email. I do hope that he will, eventually, but if he doesn't then I can only ask people how have downloaded those translated missions before they went offline to post their local copies here.

[7upMan]

Guys, Tels just replied and sent me the link to the translated FMs on his server.

 

http://bloodgate.com/mirrors/tdm/pub/i18n/

 

He gave his okay for you to copy those FMs and make them available on your server(s).

[Sotha]

Guys, Tels just replied and sent me the link to the translated FMs on his server.

 

http://bloodgate.com...s/tdm/pub/i18n/

 

He gave his okay for you to copy those FMs and make them available on your server(s).

 

Good to hear he is still alive. He disappeared quite suddenly, IIRC.

[7upMan]

Well, he said that after he suddenly lost his access to the dev SVN, he lost all motivation to continue with TDM. I have no idea what went on in the dev forums (there seems to be some heated arguing at the time), but the result is that it seems we lost the person who worked on the i18n system.

[Sotha]

Yeah, there are occasionally arguments in the dev forums, but they very seldom go ad hominem. I've seem some in my time, though, but this last debate did not seem particularily inflamed or poisonous.

 

But we are all in this together, so we have respect the opinions of other people, too, even while we would be in terrible disagreement.

 

I suppose you can't dev without an argument or two.

 

Good thing Tels is alright, though. Maybe he returns when the withdrawal symptoms get to The Shakes of Dread.

[7upMan]

Absolutely. I was already afraid he had went the way of Oddity...

[grayman]

He gave his okay for you to copy those FMs and make them available on your server(s).

 

So who needs to do what?

 

Good to hear Tels is still kickin' around.

[7upMan]

I have no idea. I'd say copy the files from his server to your server(s) and make them available there. I don't know what is necessary to d/l the localized version ingame, so I had hoped that you could answer that. However, if necessary, I can get back to Tels and ask him for specific instructions on how to go on with these FMs.

 

I'm sorry that I can't be of more help here, but I know absolutely ZERO about all this programming stuff. Even if explanations were given, I probably wouldn't understand them.

[grayman]

I don't know what to do with the localized pk4s. Perhaps there are clues in the mission downloader code, but I'm too busy to start down that road atm.

[gnartsch]

In principle they would just need to be added to the 'localization pack' section on the servers mission list.

However, there is a problem with the ingame downloader, as far as I can tell:

Currently it will download the localization pack only if you download the mission itself as well.

The thing is that the code does not bother checking for availlable localization files separately.

 

So, as far as the players are concerned they would need to either delete the entire mission from TDM or download the localization packs manually.

I build my own gamex86.dll last week, which would help here.

It indicates availlable localization packs which have not been downloaded yet and allow the downloader to download only those, even though the mission had been downloaded already.

The solution isn't 100% perfect, but works pretty good, as far as I can tell.

Edit: figured out the missing piece, so now it behaves 100% as expected.

 

 

But I think here comes the bad news:

I think most missions would need to be updated anyway.

The point is that in order to use the localized content, the various .xd files in the actual mission pk4 (which currently hold the english texts) would need to be replaced with the version where everything is replaced with these sort of tags : #str_20039

Only like that the internationalization code in TDM is able to properly replace them with the localized texts.

 

Having said that, it seems that currently the only mission that is really prepared for localization is CrystalGrave.

From what I can tell, this is the only one which is setup to really support localization.

Somehow I feel like the translation project got entirely forgotten over the changes for 2.0.

So, it seems like some major effort would be needed to actually add back the localization support to those missions.

 

 

And the second issue is that even the l10 files on Tels server appear to provide translation for only a very few languages at all.

In no way it matches the amount of translations that are marked as complete on the Wikie.

E.g. the Training mission has translations for english and french only, although more languages should be availlable.

So, the actual finalized language packs must be hosted somewhere else ...

Edited October 27, 2013 by gnartsch

[Springheel]

So, it seems like some major effort would be needed to actually add back the localization support to those missions.

 

What exactly has changed in this respect? The majority of missions weren't even modified for 2.0.

[gnartsch]

Well, I guess nothing has changed with respect to localization,

but I have no idea if there might have been changes to texts for some mission when the work on 2.0 was going on in parallel.

 

But at any rate the mission packs that are on the servers are not ready for localisation (except for CrystalGrave).

 

The versions on the servers that contain the texts (e.g. Alchemist: xdata\alchemist.xd) contain english texts.

Check the modifed versions on Tels that were created in preparation for the big translation wave.

The same file found in the versions on Tels server contain strings like #str_20039 instead.

And off course there are the accompanying _l10.pk4 for adding back english + all other languages.

 

So.... at any rate that would need to be cleaned up and the majority of missions would need to be reuploaded (with replaced files) along with the localisation files.

Otherwise the _l10.pk4 files won't have any effect.

Not sure what else would need to be considered. Nor do I know which missions got touched for 2.0 at all.

[grayman]

If you run Tels' localization perl script on each map that says something changed for 2.00, and the output file english.lang from the script matches the existing english.lang file on Tels' server, then there were no textual changes in the mission, and all existing *.lang files for that mission are good as is.

 

If a diff shows differences, then the mission needs to be reprocessed to catch the strings that are different, which should be a small list. The strings on the list should then be translated and all *.lang files updated.

 

As for which missions changed for 2.00, I'm sure a list exists somewhere.

[grayman]

But at any rate the mission packs that are on the servers are not ready for localisation (except for CrystalGrave).

 

Which ones? And what does "ready" mean, to you? IIRC, In the North was translated to several languages, starting with the translation-ready work I did before I released the mission. I doubt that it has lost its readiness in the time since.

[gnartsch]

Yes, you are right. In the North is 'ready', which means that all files inside the mission pk4 use 'placeholders' for the actual texts.

But the localization pack on the server contains english only.

Where did the other languages go???

So... there is no mission around that anyone can play in any other language then english.

 

 

Pick any other random mission and you will see that none of them is even prepared for translation (=not ready).

Just picking a few by random, which all are not ready to use a localization pack if any would ever show up:

Somewhere above the City

Trapped

Glenham Tower

Betrayal

Thiefs Den

Busniess as Usual

....

....

..

.

They all have english texts in the ZIP instead of using placeholders, so there is no chance for any for a localization pack to take effect.

 

In case anyone can show me a mission (from the official download servers) using any other language then english, please let me know how you did it!

[grayman]

Yes, you are right. In the North is 'ready', which means that all files inside the mission pk4 use 'placeholders' for the actual texts.

But the localization pack on the server contains english only.

Where did the other languages go???

 

Yes, that's a question I don't have an answer for. After working with Echelon for a short time after release of ItN, I dropped my involvement when I realized the translators had everything 'in hand'. As for where the localization packs are stored, I assume (now) that they went to Tels' server, and everything worked fine until 2.00 went out and someone realized they were missing. Or they worked fine until Tels' server(s) went offline.

 

IIRC, a number of the older missions--like the ones you listed--didn't get I18N attention because they were released before I18N was nailed down and became part of the release process. Perhaps based on discussions at the time, those authors probably assumed that the translators would deal with them. We'd only know if that were true if a ) someone remembers what was going on at the time, or b ) the localization packs turn up for those missions.

[gnartsch]

EDIT: nevermind

 

Hopefully someone figures out where all the translations went to.

Edited October 25, 2013 by gnartsch

[grayman]

Well, looking at the site you quoted but then edited out, I see a number of finished translations. That site might not hold all those that were completed, but it could be a fair chunk of them.