Beta testing Bat2.0

[STRUNK]

Hmm ... I had all sorts of problems with aas where my map didn't even start: "can't use aas*"
When I change it to aas96 my map doesn't start again.
aas_96 is incorrect indeed so something is going wrong with aas things .. but where?

[Dragofer]

25 minutes ago, STRUNK said:

Hmm ... I had all sorts of problems with aas where my map didn't even start: "can't use aas*"
When I change it to aas96 my map doesn't start again.
aas_96 is incorrect indeed so something is going wrong with aas things .. but where?

I fixed that the first time around by reducing the size / mins / maxs spawnargs of the bat to fit inside the maximum bounds allowed for that aas type. You can see the max bounds allowed by looking at the aas entities in the Create Entity menu.

[STRUNK]

9 hours ago, Dragofer said:

I fixed that the first time around by reducing the size / mins / maxs spawnargs of the bat to fit inside the maximum bounds allowed for that aas type.

I thought I fixed it too then, but aparently I typed aas96 wrong.
size above 94 94 94 doesn't seem to work .. ok. But I commentend out the mins and max now and the bats are getting in the ground a bit.
The mins and max prevent the bat from doing that so the bat needs that right?
But does it need the size?

[STRUNK]

I tried different things with the mins and max and non of it works ... so how to make sort of a box around the bats that does work?
When I also comment out the size, the map wil also not load with the message cannot use aas96

[datiswous]

This seems to work for me:

	"use_aas" 	            "aas96" 		
	"size"                	"48 48 48"
//	"mins"					"-48 -48 -48"
//	"maxs"					"48 48 48"				

 

[STRUNK]

9 hours ago, datiswous said:

This seems to work for me:

For me too, up to size 94 94 94. I don' understand but it works. Without the mins and max, do the bats in your map get in the walls/floor/ceiling with their bodies/wings sometimes?

[datiswous]

Not at the moment, but I have a large room (could try a smaller one)  and I have set it up for patrolling. Patrolling only works in a straight line, if you do corners in the path, the bat gets lost. Might be different in tight places.

I wonder why you used aas96. This seems more for big(ger) ai.

 

Edit: A request from people with more knowledge: A wiki page about the aas system with a graphic presentation of what it does and how it is used.

Edit2: Aah, there's some info over here: https://modwiki.dhewm3.org/The_Doom_3_AAS_system
and here: http://www.kbs.twi.tudelft.nl/docs/MSc/2001/Waveren_Jean-Paul_van/thesis.pdf  (page 24)
Well it's a bit technical though
 

Edited February 3, 2022 by datiswous

[STRUNK]

@datiswous

I've been looking at the aas and stuff again and came up with the following, that seems to be working as is should
For the Bat:

	"use_aas" 	            "aas48" 		
	"size"                	"48 48 48"
	"mins"					"-24 -24 0"
	"maxs"					"24 24 48"				

For the BatSmall:
 

	"use_aas" 	            "aas32" 		
	"size"                	"32 32 32"
	"mins"					"-16 -16 0"
	"maxs"					"16 16 32"	

I will update the download in the first post also

tdm_ai_bat.def

[STRUNK]

Looking at the rats anims there is no anim turn so I guess that is not needed for making turns when following paths? (Can rats follow paths?):
 

	anim idle			models/md5/chars/simple_animals/ratz/rat_idle2.md5anim
    anim idle2			models/md5/chars/simple_animals/ratz/rat_idle1.md5anim
	anim walk_blind		models/md5/chars/simple_animals/ratz/rat_idle2.md5anim // grayman #2469

	anim walk			models/md5/chars/simple_animals/ratz/rat_walk.md5anim
	{
		frame 1		footstep
		frame 11	footstep
	}
	
	anim walk2			models/md5/chars/simple_animals/ratz/rat_scamper_01.md5anim
	{
		frame 1		footstep
		frame 11	footstep
	}

	//anim run			models/md5/chars/simple_animals/ratz/rat_scamper_01.md5anim
	anim run			models/md5/chars/simple_animals/ratz/rat_walk.md5anim
	{
	   frame 1		footstep
	   frame 11		footstep
	}
	
	anim search			models/md5/chars/simple_animals/ratz/rat_walk.md5anim
	{
	   frame 3		footstep
	   frame 11		footstep
	}
	
	anim melee_attack1	models/md5/chars/simple_animals/ratz/rat_scamper_01.md5anim
	{
	   frame 1		footstep
	   frame 11		footstep
	}

	anim sight			models/md5/chars/simple_animals/ratz/rat_idle1.md5anim 
	{
		frame 2		sound_voice snd_sight
	}

@datiswous
Maybe with the half size aas and size the turning on paths works better?

Edited February 7, 2022 by STRUNK

[datiswous]

On 2/7/2022 at 10:54 AM, STRUNK said:

(Can rats follow paths?)

Rats can follow paths. But I can't get the (new) bat to follow a path. It just flies to a corner and then starts flying in a circle. Also in animal patrol mode it seems to get stuck.

Maybe taking the tdm_ai_monster_elemental.def which can be found in tdm_devs01.pk4 as a basis is an idea? Since that is a flying unit as well.

Edited February 9, 2022 by datiswous

[STRUNK]

@datiswous
Could you share your .map file here?

[datiswous]

man1b.map

You can test with tdm_ai_showdest 1

 

For comparison I added a fast flying elemental

 

Edit: Actually the patrol mode seems to work better at lower speeds. Maybe if there are more path_corner entities added closer to each other it might work better. Still the fire elemental seems to have less issue following the path at higher speeds than the bat.

Maybe someone with more experience can test?

Edit: I updated the map file with a version with the now working bat.

Edited February 9, 2022 by datiswous

[datiswous]

fly_seek_scale seems to be important. The info says:

Quote

Has an effect on the flying behaviour. Should maybe be changed for small or large spaces

Default it is set to 0.5 . If I change it to 20 it has no problems following the path. Maybe this needs to be lower or higher in smaller areas. I don't know what the logic is here, but at 10 it is still not good enough for my map.

The fire elemental has fly_seek_scale set to 4, but the speed is set to 20..

Adding more path_corner entities has no influence.

 

Animal patrol mode also works. Weird enough it can be combined with a patrol route to get some random behavior added to the following of the route. So it flies around a bit and then flies to the next point, then flies around a bit again..

Also, in animal patrol mode (with a set patrol route) it can fly at different heights, by setting the path_corner entities at different heights. This doesn't work properly in normal patrol mode.

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by datiswous

[datiswous]

If I put multiple bats in the same patrol route, they get stuck after a while. Better make them use their own  patrol route.

[JackFarmer]

On 2/9/2022 at 11:41 PM, datiswous said:

Animal patrol mode also works. Weird enough it can be combined with a patrol route to get some random behavior added to the following of the route. So it flies around a bit and then flies to the next point, then flies around a bit again..

Also, in animal patrol mode (with a set patrol route) it can fly at different heights, by setting the path_corner entities at different heights. This doesn't work properly in normal patrol mode.

 

So I simply use path nodes as for fire elementals to create a route for the bats?

[datiswous]

Yes. In Animal patrol mode it does some random movements. Also you have to set the fly_seek_scale, see post above.

[JackFarmer]

Did not really make good experiences with path nodes and fire elementals in the past, thus I would like to keep them on random patrol. I've placed four of them in two area (each area two), and at first it worked fine.

This is how it looks in the room where it still works ok (in a single event in four weeks one of the bats entered the cave (you can see the cave entrance at running time ca. 1:00) and got stuck. But this did not happen again since then.

Here comes the other area and it is so weird: when I first put the bats there, they worked as in the first video, but then suddenly they stopped moving...and I did not get them to move again since then. Every time I start the mission, they stay in a certain position (not sure whether this is the position at map start) as you can see in the video. Changing the positiond of the bats had no effect. 

I understand that small rooms may cause problems but I do not understand that at first it worked as it should, hm....

Anyway, I have wasted lots of time with this. I'll try again next year when I add gameplay, will keep you posted.

[datiswous]

Yeah maybe the surroundings are too small?

2 hours ago, JackFarmer said:

Did not really make good experiences with path nodes and fire elementals in the past

Why is that? Too monotone? And like I said, you can combine them.

Pretty scene btw.

[datiswous]

2 hours ago, JackFarmer said:

Anyway, I have wasted lots of time with this. I'll try again next year when I add gameplay, will keep you posted.

I'm willing to test. You could give me a testmap with the problematic scene. But you can also wait a year. Maybe we know more then.

[JackFarmer]

10 hours ago, datiswous said:

I'm willing to test. You could give me a testmap with the problematic scene. But you can also wait a year. Maybe we know more then.

Yeah, let's wait with testing.