Some More Point Less Questions

[oDDity]

You know perfectly well what I'm saying and just want to manufacture an argument out of it, as is you wont.

I'm saying that unless you are going to include a real injury system, with actual in-game effects on the player (which no one seems to want), then there is no need to know when you have been slightly injured. Unless an injury is one that either kills you or stops you completiung your mission, at which point the ission is over, you dont' need to know about it.

Small injuries virtually never add up to a big injury, a big injury almost always comes in one hit.

Therefore, a meter of any kind is pointless. Abstracting gamelay to a series of minor injuries suddenly finishing you off when you get a grazed knee, is a pathetic system, it's an ancient system designed for 20 year old games and needs to be replaced with something that better suits the advancing technological capabilites that games have today.

[sparhawk]

If you have enough small cuts, for example because you walked through a window glass, each individual cut would not hurt you much, but if you add up enough of them, the bloodloss could still kill you.

 

Even though this doesn't really matter that much, it is also for gameplay purposes, and therefore doesn't need to be über realistic.

[oDDity]

Not without intervening effects. You don't suddenly become disabled when you lose your last drop of blood, . You feel the gradual effects, and I wouldn't mind if those effects of bloodloss an shock were included in the game, becasue if they were then we still wouldn't need a stupid meter, but no one seems to want in-game effects of ill health.

[New Horizon]

but no one seems to want in-game effects of ill health.

 

Not in the core toolset they don't! Everyone, please excuse me for a moment, but god damnit....how many times do we have to go through this? When the toolset is finished, we can review all of these ideas.

 

I'm not against experimenting with any of your ideas, just quit being so damned obtuse. You're creating opposition where there isn't any and I'm sick of logging in here from day to day, seeing nothing but beligerant bullshit being flung around. It's hard enough to balancing the toolset for "Classic Thief" style fan mission gameplay, something we're all familiar with...and then you're constantly pushing to throw a bunch of foreign variables into the mix. Nobody is fighting to keep your ideas out of the campaign, they're telling you to shut up about them already because we're trying to build a classic core toolset first...as has been the plan from the beginning. Can I make it any clearer than that, or do I have to fly over to Ireland and smash the monitor over head?

 

YES, New Horizon is have an effing bad week!!!

[ZylonBane]

I think you've confused this thread with a discussion that's in any way relevant to the Dark Mod.

 

Hey, how often do you get to debate a guy who's in the Time Cube echelon of crazy?

[New Horizon]

I think you've confused this thread with a discussion that's in any way relevant to the Dark Mod.

 

Hey, how often do you get to debate a guy who's in the Time Cube echelon of crazy?

 

Zylon, what are you doing over here when I need you at TTLG?

 

http://ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104978&page=2

 

For some reason, I feel compelled to argue with some posters who are adamant that Garrett having no scar in Thief 1 and Thief 2, then suddenly having one in Thief 3, is not a continuity error. I really don't know why I'm arguing with them, it's such a pointless thing to tango over, but I just can't stop myself. I find that I'm infuriated by the arrogance and the ignorance.

[ZylonBane]

Hmm? Oh, I got temp-banned until Monday. I guess one of the Editor's Guild mods finally got enough sand up their vagina to nag an admin into approving it. This is what it says when I go to the forums:

You have been banned for the following reason:

Because you seriously, seriously need to take a time-out. It just aint cute, funny or tolerable the way you treat (abuse) other members. Enough is TOO MUCH. Think about it.

Heh. That definitely doesn't sound like Dave.

[jtbalogh]

... there is no need to know when you have been slightly injured. Unless an injury is one that either kills you or stops you completiung your mission, at which point the ission is over, you dont' need to know about it. Small injuries virtually never add up to a big injury, a big injury almost always comes in one hit. Therefore, a meter of any kind is pointless ...

Possible, but you are only talking about cosmetics. The game is still keeping track of these meters behind the scenes (health, loot, weapons, items, etc). The game does not forgot you got hit once in which a second hit could surely kill you. Your analogy starts to feel like, "... no need to know how much loot/weapons/items we have until we run out of them or the game is over." If a health meter can be replaced with some other cosmetic indicator, than more power to you.

 

BTW, slowing down gameplay or filling the screen with a red overlay to simulate pain may be the wrong approach. I get my fast 4GHz computer to get 60 FPS, and not expect the game to simulate 5 FPS, nor ruin my graphics quality. Find me someone who would like fraps saying 60FPS but the game moves like a slow 300MHz dinosaur even with 640x480 and no AA.

 

You feel the gradual effects, and I wouldn't mind if those effects of bloodloss an shock were included in the game, because if they were then we still wouldn't need a stupid meter, but no one seems to want in-game effects of ill health.

We had an big FM (you remember) that reduced health points because of poison. An FM author maynow want to reduce health points after receiving an injury which does not get treated. The dark mods programmers truly do not need to invent anything to help us, do they? STill in this case, we need some kind of health meter or we never know when we die. Edited March 25, 2006 by jtbalogh

[oDDity]

Hmm? Oh, I got temp-banned until Monday. I guess one of the Editor's Guild mods finally got enough sand up their vagina to nag an admin into approving it. This is what it says when I go to the forums:

You have been banned for the following reason:

Because you seriously, seriously need to take a time-out. It just aint cute, funny or tolerable the way you treat (abuse) other members. Enough is TOO MUCH. Think about it.

 

 

Wimp. I've been perma-banned from TTLG on no less than 4 occasions.

 

I'm not against experimenting with any of your ideas, just quit being so damned obtuse. You're creating opposition where there isn't any and I'm sick of logging in here from day to day, seeing nothing but beligerant bullshit being flung around.

This is an off topic discussion, and has nothing to do with you, unless you want to take part in the actual discussion of course, but it is not within your remit to try and gag what I say in off-topic. I've warned you about that before.

[jtbalogh]

This thread should be called, "Some More Point Less Responses ..."

[Springheel]

[sparhawk]

You feel the gradual effects, and I wouldn't mind if those effects of bloodloss an shock were included in the game, becasue if they were then we still wouldn't need a stupid meter, but no one seems to want in-game effects of ill health.

 

You are now working two years (or probably more) on games and you still got absolutely no clue how to think about it. What effect would it have to include all this stuff? Either you have a good proposal to make it interesting, or your "game" becomes just an annoyance, which means that the player will either reload, or stop playing alltogether. And now you want to tell me that you enjoy working for several years on something that nobody even uses?

[oDDity]

Well, if you have in-game effects of injuries, then you also need to balance it with ways to heal, and in that case most decent players will not just reload any time they get injured, but will use the healing methods.

I'm not just talking about swinging poitons here either, but bandages, stitching, splints, etc.

Ayway, people are as likely to load their last save with the current system when they see they are low in health and have no healing potion.

And what do you know about game mechanics yourself? All you want to do it copy the mechanics directly from every other game youv'e ever played, because you're scared to try anything new.

[New Horizon]

Wimp. I've been perma-banned from TTLG on no less than 4 occasions.

This is an off topic discussion, and has nothing to do with you, unless you want to take part in the actual discussion of course, but it is not within your remit to try and gag what I say in off-topic. I've warned you about that before.

 

Well, you can take your warnings and shove them. I'm not trying to gag what you say at all. Get real. All I'm saying, is that even though it's in the off topic it's misleading....and as much as it's YOUR right to be a beligerant asshole, it's as much my right to speak out against it, and ensure that things are clarified. Well, now that we've re-established our roles....suck on it.

 

As far as anything I may have done to censor you in the past, well, if you hadn't been treating some people like shit...I wouldn't have said anything. Etiquette is never off topic. Sorry, but I actually care about the treatment of other human beings, it's just a tiny little thing that's a 'weeeee' bit important to me. Yeah. I'm also so very, ultimately, extremely, orgasmically (whoops kind of went in my pants there) sorry for stifling your rights to "freedom of abuse". Jeez man, you take yourself way too seriously. You need to learn how to balanct your superior intellect, with a little superior humility.

 

So, when I visit Ireland again, we should hang out and have a good larf. I'm much more politically incorrect in person.

[sparhawk]

Hmm? Oh, I got temp-banned until Monday. I guess one of the Editor's Guild mods finally got enough sand up their vagina to nag an admin into approving it. This is what it says when I go to the forums:

 

Not really surprising. Everybody is whinning for a moderator if if he can't think of an appropriate answer instead.

[oDDity]

Well, you can take your warnings and shove them. I'm not trying to gag what you say at all. Get real. All I'm saying, is that even though it's in the off topic it's misleading....and as much as it's YOUR right to be a beligerant asshole, it's as much my right to speak out against it, and ensure that things are clarified. Well, now that we've re-established our roles....suck on it.

 

As far as anything I may have done to censor you in the past, well, if you hadn't been treating some people like shit...I wouldn't have said anything. Etiquette is never off topic. Sorry, but I actually care about the treatment of other human beings, it's just a tiny little thing that's a 'weeeee' bit important to me. Yeah. I'm also so very, ultimately, extremely, orgasmically (whoops kind of went in my pants there) sorry for stifling your rights to "freedom of abuse". Jeez man, you take yourself way too seriously. You need to learn how to balanct your superior intellect, with a little superior humility.

That doesn't work with me (nothing does), because unlike zylon 'I enjoy sucking moderators cocks, the bigger the better' bane, I dont' back down.

He acts all big and brash and then when a mod slaps his wrist, he goes of and has a cry, and returns acting like a good little boy so he won't be banned. He actually cares, whereas I dont give a shit, which is why I've been banned from at least 10 forums.

[Bukary]

You guys really work together on Dark Mod?

 

It's a miracle this mod is still being developed, isn't it?

[ZylonBane]

He acts all big and brash and then when a mod slaps his wrist, he goes of and has a cry, and returns acting like a good little boy so he won't be banned.

While I can see how this theory would certainly help maintain your ego at the prescribed PSI, I doubt you'll find much real-world evidence to support it.

 

He actually cares, whereas I dont give a shit, which is why I've been banned from at least 10 forums.

Getting repeatedly banned actually requires two things:

1. Not giving a shit.

2. Being an asshole.

 

No surprises here.

[oDDity]

Whereas being an asshole without being banned requires 2 things:

1. Being an asshole.

2. Being an asslicker.

[oDDity]

You guys really work together on Dark Mod?

 

It's a miracle this mod is still being developed, isn't it?

We're all masochists you see. Well, some are masochists and other sadomasochists.

It's a winning formula.

Actually I think the real reason is that we're all mostly in our thirties, or late twenties, so we're not the sort of kids to storm off in a huff.

[New Horizon]

You guys really work together on Dark Mod?

 

It's a miracle this mod is still being developed, isn't it?

 

Don't take our discussions so seriously. I don't have anything against oDD personally, in fact I have a great deal of respect for the guy...he says what he thinks, and that's it. I'm more diplomatic by nature, so I'm usually bridging the gap in some way. I think the majority of the team have a great working relationship because they actually say what they're thinking to each other. We annoy each other sometimes, maybe all the time, but nobody takes it too seriously.

[SneaksieDave]

Try not to let it chase you off, Bukary. It is most definitely not polite behind these walls...

[Dram]

Try not to let it chase you off, Bukary. It is most definitely not polite behind these walls...

 

LOL, tell me about it

[Domarius]

You guys really work together on Dark Mod?

 

It's a miracle this mod is still being developed, isn't it?

Not really. We all like Thief The desicions we debate, while we debate them with firey enthusiam, pale in comparison With what we all like about Theif and TDM itself.

 

Actually I think the real reason is that we're all mostly in our thirties, or late twenties, so we're not the sort of kids to storm off in a huff.

Yeah that too.

Actually I know of some 30 year olds who storm off in a huff (Romero), but I'm happy to say that no one on TDM team is immature at all.

[Macsen]

You guys really work together on Dark Mod?

 

It's a miracle this mod is still being developed, isn't it?

If they were polite they'd have friends/girlfriends and wouldn't have so much time to work on the game.