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Squawks Templates - Oddity Style


Domarius
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How so? Too big or too small?

I think the arms are too massive, as Ishtvan already pointed out. I did a quick comparison with da Vinci's study:

 

anatomydc4.th.jpg

 

Even da Vinci's study has massive forearms, but you can see the difference at the biceps (even if you take the angle into account). I did not even measure at the same height on the template torso, so the ratio may be even more than 0.32 if you measure more towards his waist. It's only a rough comparison though, and overall I think it's not bad. :)

 

The arm's length is ok, IMO.

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Maybe people are really buff in Aussie? :)

 

I searched for some representative example of what I mean. Compare each to the guy above.

 

Young guy, spends a little time in the gym, moderately-but-still-small built (and thus, not average) His development is obviously not extreme, but it's long and fit. He could definitely bulk up if he tried.

Some well known men, definitely very much not average. One big, the other not as big (but still big) Steroid junkies and powerlifters for a living. Note the tricep area especially. Our guy has WWF arms almost, minus the bicep definition. There is of course larger, but that's not the point of this - I tried to find guys that fall into the range of the fellow above.

An average, no time in gym, plain ol' guy (sorry, Robbins is the best photo I could find). Arms are straight, flat, and have barely any definition or development at all. That's average.

 

So, it depends on the intended role of the guy above. He couldn't really serve as 'average guy template', unless the average guy is a mesomorphic Nord bred on a diet of oxen and hard labor. :laugh: If he's average fit male, he's still a bit too thick in the arms, mainly. Now if he's to be WWF champion (or an elite mercenary), then he's good to go. :)

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I appreciate the feedback, but this isn't about real human proportions - it's about oDDity's style proportions. If you can point out some key differences between that model and oDDity's style (particularly the guard I'm using as a reference), that would be much appreciated.

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Well, all I was ever trying to convey was that he's too big as a true Joe Average. So the original questions stand:

Is he to be a guard, or an 'average person template'?
So, it depends on the intended role of the guy above.

 

As for a specific difference, giant hulk arms. :) Oddity's guys don't have arms that big, or they'd never be able to get their armor on.

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Yeah I agree - just as long as you're comparing to oDDity's style. :) TBH, all this comparison to real proportions is patronising... I took private tuition in drawing during high-school, and life-drawing classes during college, so while I'm not nearly as good an illustrator as Springheel, I do appreciate the importance of a good understanding of the underlying workings of the human body and proportions.

 

I know that might sound rude, but I'm puzzled why the thread suddenly took a turn from comparing to oDDity's style, to realistic proportions. :wacko: This is about oDDity's stylized interpretation of the human body, which obviously, is a bit different than reality.

 

 

Re: the arms, I'll slim down them, and the torso, even more, and put a proper orthographic overlay of the template and the city watch so we can see the exact differences.

 

Re: the intended role - I want to get this template like oDDity's city watch (this is not easy since the city watch isn't naked, he's got armour on) and then probably leave the template like that, since most guys in the game will be heavy guard types (am I right?). and we can use that as the base. If I deviate from the shape of the city watch too much, then it will be more my interpretation of a thin guy in oDDity's style, rather than an actual thin guy oDDity would do in his style, and then... when someone makes a heavy guy from that template, maybe it wouldn't look much like the rest of the heavy guys. Do you know what I mean?

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I shrunk the head, torso and arms, though with the torso and arms I didn't shrink them vertically (y axis) but shrunk them in the x and z axis.

 

I found a way to give a clear outline of his shape compared to oDDity's. Should help show any areas that need improvement.

post-10-1172499651_thumb.jpg

post-10-1172499660_thumb.jpg

post-10-1172499669_thumb.jpg

post-10-1172499691_thumb.jpg

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since most guys in the game will be heavy guard types (am I right?).

 

I've mentioned this before, but we already HAVE all of the heavy guard types in the game that we had intended to have. The only muscled characters we had once planned to include that aren't already in there are elite pagan warriors (which, being bare-chested, I'm not sure we could use these templates for anyway).

 

If the templates are going to be useful, they should probably be tailored to 'average' proportions, since the majority of characters we need from here on in are going to be servants, townsfolk, ruffians, etc.

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Not to be a curmudgeon...but I'm still wondering if there was truly a benefit to doing 'this' over removing the armor from oDD's city watch model and just doing some patching up to get him template worthy? Same idea really. Then it's just a matter of altering that base and using skins. I just don't see the point in altering these models to 'look' like oDD's models, when we already have oDD's models. I think it would have taken less time to prep them for use as templates.

 

Again, not to be a dick...but this whole project has made little sense and wasn't requested.

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There are no people underneath the clothes and armour in my models, it's just a face and hands.

It looks likes layers of stuff but it's not, everything stops when it hits a border.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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Not to be a curmudgeon...but I'm still wondering if there was truly a benefit to doing 'this' over removing the armor from oDD's city watch model and just doing some patching up to get him template worthy? Same idea really. Then it's just a matter of altering that base and using skins. I just don't see the point in altering these models to 'look' like oDD's models, when we already have oDD's models. I think it would have taken less time to prep them for use as templates.

 

Again, not to be a dick...but this whole project has made little sense and wasn't requested.

Again, its easier to create a proper template from scratch than try and make something into something it wasn't designed for. Not to be a dick, but how much modelling have you done?

Gildoran's readable interface wasn't requested, but that didn't mean it wasn't totally awesome and useful.

(It was Gildoran who invented our current readable interface wasn't it?)

 

 

@Spring - I guess I will go for "average guy" then. The deviation I'll take from the city watch body probably won't matter much.

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Again, its easier to create a proper template from scratch than try and make something into something it wasn't designed for.

 

I disagree. Apples and oranges...creating from scratch, or adding to an existing structure. Same idea. You say it's easier to create something from nothing, than something from something? ;)

 

Not to be a dick, but how much modelling have you done?

 

I've messed around in different applications, but I don't have the time to dedicate to it...though I wish I could. I damn nearly became a comic book artist out of high school though...sadly time, money and a lack of opportunities where I live ended that. So now I'm a computer tech/ graphic designer. Sure, it's not modeling...but I still know a thing or two about art..it has been my life in one form or another since I was able to hold a pencil. I don't have to be able to model to know that there is little difference in working from a half finished model than creating one from scratch....especially in a 3D app. It would be similar to taking a sketch...erasing all but the head, arms and boots...then redrawing the body. One of our exercises in Art Class..was to start a character, then have someone else finish it and match your style.

 

Gildoran's readable interface wasn't requested, but that didn't mean it wasn't totally awesome and useful.

(It was Gildoran who invented our current readable interface wasn't it?)

 

Yeah, ok...but..we didn't have a readable interface prior to that one, but we do/did have an entire cast of models already finished! I maintain that the time could have been better spent simply filling in the blanks where necessary and not having to spend so much time tweaking poor Squawks models to look like oDD's models.

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You say it's easier to create something from nothing, than something from something? ;)

Nice misrepresentation of the situation you got going there.

 

I agree with Domarius on this one; it is easier to start from scratch than to make tedious modifications to a mesh that doesn't suit your purposes. Heck, even oDDity appears to agree with him, judging by his negative response to your previous post.

 

By way of analogy: If you've made a clay model of a tiger, and now you want to turn it into a dog, it's easier to roll the clay up into a round ball and start again than it is to make the changes directly. Even though both creatures have 4 legs and a head and a tail, they're different enough that it doesn't make sense to use one as the base for the other.

 

Not that he is starting from scratch, because the meshes already exist, and it's a simple matter to tweak them so that they're usable, as Domarius has already demonstrated. Okay, maybe you would have preferred squawks to do something else to begin with, but as it seems she created this as part of the workflow for her whore/barmaid model (and just got a little carried away, which is certainly not a crime) I for one am willing to trust her knowledge of which workflow works for her. And now that the meshes exist, why not use them? The work required to make use of them is not strenuous.

 

We've been over and over this stupid argument again and again and again and again and again already. Sorry to be blunt, but can everyone please just SHUT THE FUCK UP and let Domarius get on with it? Most of the work is already completed for Christ's sake. You are accomplishing NOTHING by continuing to beat this dead horse. Most people seems to have accepted this already. Get with the times please.

 

I grow exceedingly tired of this conversation. Domarius and squawks have offered up some good, quality work for the mod and all certain people have done is spit in their faces. What the fuck is wrong with you people?

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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Again, its easier to create a proper template from scratch than try and make something into something it wasn't designed for. Not to be a dick, but how much modelling have you done?

 

Not to be a dick, but how many times do we have to go though the process and do something over again when it isn't even necessary?

 

Gildoran's readable interface wasn't requested, but that didn't mean it wasn't totally awesome and useful.

(It was Gildoran who invented our current readable interface wasn't it?)

 

That is a little bit different. To begin with, there was no readable interface at all at the moment, so Gildoran started from scratch.

Gerhard

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What the fuck is wrong with you people?

 

Hey, don't mince words, tell us how you really feel. :mellow:

 

Nothing wrong with your points, but that level of emotion will probably just stir the pot more.

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Hey, don't mince words, tell us how you really feel. :mellow:

:laugh:

 

Nothing wrong with your points, but that level of emotion will probably just stir the pot more.

Well, maybe. I restrained myself last time, though, and that didn't seem to help. So maybe a good verbal whack upside the head will kill this conversation early. Worth a try.

 

Not to be a dick, but how many times do we have to go though the process and do something over again when it isn't even necessary?

Not to be a dick, but how many times do we have to go though this conversation and do it over again when it isn't even necessary?

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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@NH - as oDDity said, his finished models are just hands and faces. The rest is clothing and armour. The topology is created around that. The edges do not flow in the right directions for structure of bare limbs, they flow in the structure of robes and armour. I would have to delete everything and start with just hands and faces!

 

Apart from overall feedback on aesthetics, I don't see a need for any unqualified comments - Spring and oDDity are in the best position to say what is nessecary and what isn't, in this department.

 

And thanks for the support Crispy. At least the emotion in your post shows me I'm not the only one incredulous at the whole thing.

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Something looks a little off to me...did you raise the knees to compensate for raising the crotch? They look a little low now.

 

I think the arms are now pretty good.

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The elitewatch isn't 6'5" anymore...those were the old numbers before we resized the AI.

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Something looks a little off to me...did you raise the knees to compensate for raising the crotch? They look a little low now.

Haha... no I did not. I'll do that when I get home.

 

But to raise one point, his height; by comparison to the citywatch, isn't he like 6'5"? His legs do kinda look long for his torso, but maybe that's an illusion from the shirt.

Height might be a small issue that will need tweaking after we test this guy in game.

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