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I don't think scientific explanations for "magical" things is bad, as long as it's done really well. It even can open up new ideas for whatever it is you're trying to explain.

 

I saw a pretend documentary about dragons, they used the latest special effects and had some really cool and plausable scientific explanations for fire breathing and flight, and their eco system, and also goes a long way to explain why they seem to appear in legend in different cultures, and the different appearances (due to different evolution). The whole thing was filmed as if they were really discovering it, and major parts re-enacted like in Walking With The Dinosaurs.

 

It was so good, I plan on hunting it down and buying it.

That's pretty much exactly what I want to achieve. Besides, logical systems can lend credence to low-magic settings and give an opportunity to provide flavor to a story (such as zombies with a 19th-century-understanding-of-radiation twist). Magic can still be magic, but I want characters in TDM to have a 14th-19th century understanding of it. It might actually be interesting for them to believe something that is absolutely untrue, for example, 8'-12' cyclopes might actually exist, but people see dinosaur fossils and believe that dragons exist when they do not. Who says they have everything right? :)

 

Also I like all the different explanations for zombies. There's the magically re-animated type, where the soul or the magic is animating the bones like a puppet, and you get this slow, loping, moaning pitiful and yet horrifying creature.

Then there's the mutated virus type, where the being is still alive only in the basic sense, but some virus has taken control of the basic motor funcitons and survival instincts, and you get this vicious, roaring, super-human monster, like in Dawn of the Dead.

Then you have your voodoo zombies, who are very much alive, very much still human, your animated skeletons (animated pretty much the same way as slow zombies, but without all that cumbersome meat to slow them down), ghouls (like vampires it may be wise not to include ghouls), and your various types of sentient undead.

 

These are some interesting ideas Hammer but I tend to agree with Gildoran, for the purposes of immersion I think magical processes are either best left unexplained OR by appealing to explanations that dovetail with popular conceptions of magic. For example, the elemental theme of the Precursor games was a good fit for me, cause elemental magic actually exists in the RL world (the practice anyway) so most are familiar with it and its the right mix of woo and actual explanation. Enough to see larger patterns but not enough to give one a sense of any deeper understanding. Now, if you were to make an FM that had a engineers text describing such theories, or some wizards scrolls, or an alchemist lecturing some students, that would be a nice addition. I don't want the Thief world explained to me too much, but if some of its inhabitants try to explain it, thats really good detail IMO and would only accentuate the atmosphere.

Exactly. However, it's also good to have a good enough "real" explanation to act as a rule of thumb when you're exploring magic in your story. Characters are always allowed to be wrong, but the author is not.

 

As for the Aristotelean elements, I've always liked the idea that they represented the four phases of matter (Earth = solid, Water = liquid, Air = gas, Fire = plasma). Magic uses the four "elements", and matter is made of the 92+ elements with which we are familiar. Actually, if done right, there's a huge subtext that could be exploited (for the literary types out there): the postmodern rejection of (Plato's notion of) knowledge as an absolute. Hell, why not go full out and have an entirely postmodern magic system? :D

 

I have to admit Im not as familiar with lichs as some other character types. I can see them being loners from the world but surrounding themselves with other simple undead, zombies and maybe some haunts to protect their lairs.

That's pretty much exactly what they do. Liches that are major characters in a story are the only ones that ever really deviate from this. Usually they're thought of as being highly territorial and avoiding/attacking other undead that they did not create or control.

 

Are they really always a match for a lich? I tend to agree with your description of vamps but a necromancer is a powerful foe as well and I would think that a master of death magic would have some abilities versus the undead, even if he was undead himself. Lichs as I have encountered them are still sentient, unlike zombies and haunts, and would seem quite capable of defending themselves against a vamp. Vampires can get too soap opera-ish but they can be toned down, made less sexy and more unnatural. And their can be rankings of vamps, its one thing to bump into a young local vamp dwelling in a sewer tunnel and lurking in back alleys, terrified of a mob with torches and stakes, and another to crawl into the tomb of a seven hundred year old vampire who can crush you with a glance.

Good point. The problem is that simply toning them down makes them too bland and even mundane (think Oblivion vampires). You're taking extremely complex entities and portraying them in a simple way, relying on the reader's knowledge of the creature to fill in the blanks, without fulfilling the player's (now inflated) expectations. The only way to avoid this is to challenge their expectations.

 

The idea of a lich as a necromancer is nothing new, but it fits in as a logical progression of necromancy in TDM--it's simple, and it doesn't rely on the reader not to ask questions. The idea of a lich as a sorcerer/wizard/warlock who sells his soul or traps it in a phylactery instantly raises questions for the reader (namely, "why?"--not to mention a whole line of teleological, religious, and eschatological questioning). Furthermore, liches challenge readers' perceptions of undead as mindless and even weak, not to mention the unnatural aura they carry befitting the undead.

 

It's harder to do this with vampires. In the earliest vampire stories, they had a uniqueness and strangeness about them that has become lost in modern times, thanks to vampires' virtual ubiquity. The best way to counter this is by reimagining them, but this runs the risk of straying too far from the concept. I think it can be done right, though.

 

I like your fm idea, it sounds like a good time trying to fight to survive then have to desperately seek out your kit to escape.

Thanks. I was worried that people would just assume that I was trying to make TDM (really, their beloved Thief) into "just another FPS", when really, I'm aiming more for a Deus Ex-like experience. I really want to figure out a way of giving the player all sorts of options and dilemmas without relying on heavy dialogue or arbitrary scripted sequences.

 

For example, I want to have the player be able to booby trap the animal cage in various ways to assist in their escape (or perchance their survival in the next match) in an intuitive, straightforward, and logical manner. The player should be able to improvise a solution without having to worry/rely on quirky game mechanics or esoteric knowledge to do it (e.g., inventory combining puzzles). Some things don't have to be so obvious, such as stuffing your cot to look like you're there at night while you're off sneaking about, so long as the same goal can be achieved by other means (knocking out the guard that comes by to check the cells). Other things have to have contextual clues by nature (anything the player McGyvers)--why the hell would the player ever think that they could fashion a makeshift lockpick from the metal in their cot? The best way would be for the thief to drop (subtle) hints to the player--just enough to tell them that a lockpick can be made at all.

 

Actually, this brings up a good question. How the bloody hell can we give mappers the ability to have custom dialogue if they can't necessarily get the voice actors (NH is planning to record all included dialogue in one go, with local actors)? I suppose we could always let them fend for themselves, but that feels a bit like a cop-out.

 

BTW you will be interested in this, a few years ago at a book sale here in Philly I found the two book set of the adventures of Varney the Vampire, a character from the British "pennydreadfulls" from the late 19th century. The books were reprints obviously but they look really neat, I never read them but Ill drag them out now.

Interesting...

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I like your ideas, Nyar :)

 

Did you know Star Wars novels were all required to be "accurate" to the star wars universe - there exists an explanation (to variying degrees) of how everything is supposed to work, and there exists a well maintained timeline and actual events, that cross paths in different novels, and I'm talking little details and individual side characters, not just major events.

 

Consistency is a good thing, helps keep me immersed in the world someone has created. I like to beleive there's a reason for everything, and not just encounter flying zombies in one FM and not others, with no explanation other than the author thought it would be "cool".

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I like your ideas, Nyar :)

Oh, stop it, you! :blush:

 

Did you know Star Wars novels were all required to be "accurate" to the star wars universe - there exists an explanation (to variying degrees) of how everything is supposed to work, and there exists a well maintained timeline and actual events, that cross paths in different novels, and I'm talking little details and individual side characters, not just major events.

No, I didn't. I thought George Lucas forfeited his right as a judge of Star Wars accuracy when he released the Special Edition. :rolleyes: In all seriousness, the enormous success the Star Wars Extended Universe has had with keeping a consistent timeline is something that I greatly aspire to imitate with TDM. Although, I think Lucas proves that the "uncompromising vision" of a single man cannot be trusted to be, well, uncompromising.

 

Consistency is a good thing, helps keep me immersed in the world someone has created. I like to beleive there's a reason for everything, and not just encounter flying zombies in one FM and not others, with no explanation other than the author thought it would be "cool".

OMGWTFBBQ!!! WE MUST HAV TEH FLYING X0MB13S!!! NO MAP IS COMPLETE WITHOUT THEM!!!! KEKEKE!!1!</'tard> Sorry, I just had to do that. It was the flying zombies. :laugh:

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It might actually be interesting for them to believe something that is absolutely untrue,

 

That is clearly the case. Our goal is to make the TDM universe as rich and believable as possible, and that necessitates lots of people thinking they are right when they aren't.

 

In all seriousness, the enormous success the Star Wars Extended Universe has had with keeping a consistent timeline is something that I greatly aspire to imitate with TDM

 

It would be nice to create a consistant setting for TDM, and we're going to put some effort in that direction, but there are two pitfalls.

 

One, we first have to come to an agreement of what the "official" setting of TDM might be. As this thread demonstrates, there are widely varying opinions on something as basic as where zombies come from. Some of the biggest and most raccous debates we've had internally have revolved around what should or should not be appropriate for the setting. Should there be guns? Should steam-bots be magically-powered? Are mages common or uncommon? Is the Church more powerful than the local Nobility or vice-versa. etc, etc. Coming to firm agreements on those issues is virtually impossible.

 

The second issue is that, even if we could come to agreements about the setting, there is no way to force mappers to stick to those rules. If we say there are no flying zombies, and some mapper decides to put some in his map, what can we do, other than call it an "unofficial" map? The more well thought-out (and thus restrictive) the setting, the more ideas mappers won't be able to use without making an "unofficial" map. And if "unofficial" maps start becoming the norm, then is there much point to having an official setting in the first place?

 

That's why we're trying to strike a (very difficult) balance between a setting that is believable and consistant, and yet at the same time not restrictive.

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That's why such details should NOT be part of the official definition, only a general outline. Where zombies come from is unimportant. If there are different opinions about it, they can be represented as different interpreations depending on the sources. Maybe the builders have a different idea how to interpret zombies and their orgiina, because they have other goals, then the inventors. So each of this group can present a different opinion as their "truth" because none of them actually knows it anyway.

The important thing, though, is that zombies in fact exist in a TDM setting.

It's the same as with guns. Do we allow them or not? How they are made, or how they were invented, is quite on a different page. Considering that we have a inventors guild, a rude form of guns might even be appropriate, but such things should be used rarely, because they ar enot well developed, and thus not in common usage for various reasons.

Gerhard

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Where zombies come from is unimportant.

 

Well, it's probably not unimportant to the people in this thread posting full-page treatises on the issue. ;)

 

Not only that, but if we don't "officially" say where zombies come from, what happens when the mod is released and a mapper makes a map where the plot revolves around the fact that zombies are actually created by magical inventor excrement? If the map is accepted as "official" then that explanation becomes part of the official setting. And how can it not be accepted, since it doesn't contradict anything official?

 

Anyway, I'm not arguing for a particular point of view here, just that it's going to be very difficult to manage, and I imagine the TDM setting will ultimately have many inconsistancies--just as the Thief universe does, for that matter.

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Star Wars is littered with inconsistencies throughout the movies and extended literature. What's so impressive is that it is so consistent despite the plethora of writers--many of whom take the time to fill in these plot holes.

 

There's actually very little reason why maps should be inconsistent with the setting if it's properly enumerated. For the most part, it's fairly easy to present a consistent, well-explained setting without being restrictive. For example, explaining necromancy as the exploitation of existing natural forces (like my radiation explanation for zombies) doesn't force a mapper not to use magical, necromantic dung in their story.

 

The second issue is that, even if we could come to agreements about the setting, there is no way to force mappers to stick to those rules. If we say there are no flying zombies, and some mapper decides to put some in his map, what can we do, other than call it an "unofficial" map? The more well thought-out (and thus restrictive) the setting, the more ideas mappers won't be able to use without making an "unofficial" map. And if "unofficial" maps start becoming the norm, then is there much point to having an official setting in the first place?

Or we could just assume that everything done by outside mappers is non-canonical by default. Mappers tend to stick pretty closely to canon when it is given and consciously depart from it only when it suits their purposes--and generally very wildly when they do.

 

Generally speaking, whenever a story revolves around explaining the origins of something differently than how it has already been explained, it's usually presented by fallible characters or as deviating from the normal setting already. Just look at D&D. All sorts of things in the setting(s) have been explained time and again by its creators, but there's still huge room for DM's to tell their own stories. DM's only ever directly contradict the source material when it suits their own purposes--they've changed the setting, and with the exception of house rules, it's to create their own variation. Nobody ever assumes that because a particular DM made it that way, that it applies to the main world.

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Might another conundrum be that, despite the outline, Thief style missions (Garrett-n-all) might supplant any outline you have in the first place? The FAQ says there is no limitation to making a Thief mission using this toolset (at their own legal peril).

For that matter, is there any limitation to calling TDM's Builders Hammerites?

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Might another conundrum be that, despite the outline, Thief style missions (Garrett-n-all) might supplant any outline you have in the first place?

 

I'm sure people probably will, but we can't legally support or encourage that.

 

Just look at D&D. All sorts of things in the setting(s) have been explained time and again by its creators, but there's still huge room for DM's to tell their own stories. DM's only ever directly contradict the source material when it suits their own purposes--they've changed the setting, and with the exception of house rules, it's to create their own variation.

 

I see what you're saying, but I think there are two significant differences with the comparison. First, D&D settings are not generally created by consensus, which makes it FAR easier to make them. The designers of such a setting aren't bogged down with debates, arguments and conflicting visions. In a team setting like this one, things don't work that way.

 

Secondly, DMs feel no special need to stick to an official setting if they don't like it, and no one is judging their campaign to see if it does. If the DM changes something, it really only affects their own players. In TDM this also wouldn't be the case, as players would go from one map to the next. Most maps will be assumed to take place in "the city", and therefore players might raise an eyebrow if in one map the city is a chaotic mess half-overrun with zombies, and in the next it is an orderly city with a builder-constructed subway system, especially if both are considered "official".

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Might another conundrum be that, despite the outline, Thief style missions (Garrett-n-all) might supplant any outline you have in the first place?

 

Not necessarily. If the new character comes with his own ethos and, more importantly, his own name (as I personally think he should), I don't see why people wouldn't want to call him by his own name.

There isn't any necessary reason why the gameplay has to be irrevocably linked to the name Garrett and the old Thief world names. People get the idea of multiple worlds these days, and this is just a different world.

 

But esp if the name comes as part of the package, then that's the name you use for that guy.

 

I mean, it's my intuition that once the name and things about the new world get into circulation it will catch on. It's fun to get a new story once and a while and I think momentum will build for people to play along and run with it. It's what branding is about, and if the world is set up thoughtfully then it sells itself.

Edited by demagogue

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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I don't see why people wouldn't want to call him by his own name.

 

That assumes the setting revolves around a single character, like Thief did, which isn't the case. The player could be many different characters from story to story. There are a lot of thieves around, unlike the Thief universe, which couldn't support any others with the amount Garrett stole. :)

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Well, I think my basic point was that what is the case is in the mind of the beholder, and my intuition is that, like Saith was thinking, a character will develop around the PC (if that's the right term) here by itself, in people's heads, a name to go with the "face" (shadow / reflection, anyway) that most people (I'm guessing) will want to latch on to, even if they know it could be anyone, even if you try to sell it as the shell of anyone. They'll prefer it being someone, a norm which catches all the generic uses, which people making their own special characters would be departing from.

 

Yeah, I guess it does assume the setting revolves around a single character, but part of that setting is all of the attributes of the PC that stay continuous, and part of that assumption is also people's natural inclination to stick a name to a face and be loyal to it. The branding is going to happen whether you guys try to sell it or not, is my guess. And I'm also guessing it actually won't be Garrett because the mass of people will probably want to play along with doing the "right" thing and understand him to be someone else (for a game about thieving, you have to admit the TTLG crowd is a pretty "nice" bunch of do-gooders, don't you think?), but someone in particular else, is my thinking.

 

But anyway, aside from the copyright issues which I think are fine as long as you guys keep the stance you have, I guess it doesn't really matter what people think by themselves; the stakes aren't big enough to even make an issue out of it. This is just my guess as to what will happen naturally when the thing gets released; people will want to have a character here and stick to it by themselves. I'll be interested to see if my intuition is right or way off ... it's really a pretty blind prediction.

 

Actually, if I really think about it, I'm thinking there's going to be big measure of path-dependence here. If there is an early FM that really establishes a character, or a set of a few characters, I think there is a chance one or some of them may really stick, or even if there's just a name (if you guys don't give him one, I can practically see the poll for it now), at least the name will stick, and maybe there will be groups supporting competing names vying for who gets in what FMs (are builders really going to make up a new name for every FM?), but over time I think it may whittle down to a select few or one. And he doesn't even need any back story, just as Garrett himself really doesn't need any backstory to make FMs work, and people have taken him in much different directions (e.g., G of CL vs G of Two Fathers); it's the name that sticks. Well, anyway, I guess we'll all see what happens.

Edited by demagogue

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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I want to also add that - if an author comes up with a different way of doing something (eg. flying zombies as a bad example) and then in the mission, includes some well thought out explanation for this, that's cool too. As long as they try really hard to immerse me in "their" version of the world they're trying to create, and it comes off well, it should be good.

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I think it is our duty to provide guidelines for followers to follow (if they wish) so they're not required to make up and we don't have multiplicity. More importantly, I just derive such pleasure from this.

 

So we have: zombies as a result of necromancy which acts like ionizing nuclear decay radiation. Where necromancy is performed, nearby items become "ionized" and harmful. It hurts living material by making the cells decay. It animates dead material when properly performed. The necromancers are exposed (work-hazard) continuously, their skin and cells are most dead, but they don't feel it because of the rejuvenating power of the necromancy - eventually they become completely dead, but still walking and acting, at which point they become classified as lichs. As you said, some are careful and don't get much deader, some have accidents and turn into a lich in one minute. Lichs are sensitive to sunlight, as it neutralizes that necromancy by which they survive. As such they hide.

 

Animated skeletons, same as animated zombies, require more necromantic power and the skill to handle it.

 

zombies as a result of plague (dibilitating disease with added superstitions and ostracisions). As I described, numerous diseases inside and outside combine to shut-down higher brain functions, make appearance scary, mobility weak, and inside slowly decomposing until ultimatley death. They are highly infectious, and HEAVILY shunned, equal to other undead, even though they were alive recently. People treat them in an exaggerated manner of medieval leprocy. They tend to group together and care for each other until death. If "protagonist" is walking is a place where they occupie, mites and ticks from surfaces can jump on him, bite, and infect with bacteria and viri, at which point he'll start losing health until some magic is used or antidote is drunk. Mites can be seen without a magnifying glass as black dots scurrying on zombie skin, and walls/floors of their habitations. can be killed as normal humans, but easier. Habitations identified by bits of skin, blood, brown spots, hair tufts, flakes, entire organs, etc, so protagonist knows when it's dangerous.

 

zombies who are alive people, (real life voodoo zombies), targets of foul play, will recover in a couple of weeks or can be healed with magic. Must be cared for if the zombified person's death is unwanted.

 

The voodoo and necro zombies are as aggresive as they're programmed to be, and virus zombies depending on the situation, person, environment, etc. but usually pissed off for being hunted and hated, semi-concious, conniving, and want other people to suffer without exposing themselves to certain death or more pain.

 

Turrets, machines, robots, behave primitively, but with deadly accuracy and face recognition. Instead of face recognition they use some "aura imprint" which is individual for each person. Their workings are unknown, involve lots of magic, and heavily guarded secret by the makers.

 

Vampires: can be of all walks of life. Does not follow "convention". Do not suck blood (or any other bodily liquids, unless it's a personal preference). blend almost imperceptibly into society, not more powerful physically than typical human, (unless works out). Not extremely proficient in magic - ever. Being a vampire makes their conciousness cloudy, diminishes frontal lobe activity - incapable of complex finances, magic, technology, mathematics, etc. Vampirism consists of touching victim and drawing off "ethereal energy". While in contact, victim is asleep and can't wake up. After touching, energy is stratified, and victim can only wake up after it normalizes, always giving the vampire time to (admire the victim and) leave. Killed almost as normal people, but require much more bodily damage. The life energy they have collected can act to quickly heal (small) damage. They live long and tend to be well entrenched in society, lots of money, estates, stocks, bonds, anything they had time to acquire without having to plan for retirement. And I don't know what everyone is saying about sexiness - I certainly don't remember Dracula being associated with sex. Most victims remain normal. There's a very small chance a victim will get infected and must then feed off other's energy or die - usually they're unaware and die "from unknown causes". To become a vampire they have to investigate and find their dark yearnings.

 

Ghouls: some unknown semitransparent shrieking fast flying cloudy scary thing that is seen very rarely in peculiar places. Best used for effect, does damage depending on volumetric time integral of contact with person's body, so if it slowly passes with its centre through your centre, you die. fast - ok. It's best to slide/walk out of the way so it only grazes you on the side.

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People can do whatever they want, and nothing is branded "official" or not. The protagonist, etc, all different, but the world preferrably the same. Protagonist name: loyalty optional. TDM maybe gives one, but encourages people to use their own. Path dependence (demagogue), I don't think it's nice - it's better if we set the path mostly.

Domarius, Nyarlathotep, true, consistency is good,

it's also good to have a good enough "real" explanation to act as a rule of thumb when you're exploring magic in your story. Characters are always allowed to be wrong, but the author is not. Besides, logical systems can lend credence to low-magic settings and give an opportunity to provide flavor to a story.

 

 

I'm ok with the four elements system but I think we can do better. And I hate Aristotle. If I lived then, I would have been plotting to kill him like socrates. "Eurymedon the hierophant denounced Aristotle, claiming he did not hold the gods in honor. Aristotle fled the city to his mother's family estate in Chalcis, explaining, "I will not allow the Athenians to sin twice against philosophy."[2]" WP. Because of him the medieval science was so screwed up, and also the church's interpretations of his philosophies. There were actual smart philosophers, atomists, not elementalists, and others, can't remember their names, the earth was rotating around the sun, etc, etc, before this idiot aristotle came long. Some use of some elements is OK I think. Plato's absolute knowledge is good too. what do you mean:

and have an entirely postmodern magic system?

 

I think there should be guns - the samurai had guns after portugeese brought them. They should be awfully crappy though. Any guns need an oxidising and combusting material. If they don't have saltpeter in their hills, then they can only get guns and ammunition from far away, and unless traders are up to setting up colonies, slaves for digging, and importing, guns are almost useless.

Edited by Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat
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Actually, this brings up a good question. How the bloody hell can we give mappers the ability to have custom dialogue if they can't necessarily get the voice actors

 

I've been planning to use silent-era movie-like black ornate screen with text, while the game is auto-paused.

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Ghouls: some unknown semitransparent shrieking fast flying cloudy scary thing

 

We already have ghouls and they're nothing like that.

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  • 2 months later...

I had always thought that the City was one of many city-states scattered across a continent that was much too difficult to settle on the interior due to the magics and beasties that are in the Thief universe. Right outside the City would be farmland to support the food needs, then outside that... Pagan villages which then border "the wild"

 

Calendars? Year zero could be based in Builder theology... it would make sense to do so. Maybe the year that the "great builder" bestowed "the hammer and forge" to mankind? That would, in my estimation put Garrett in about Year 1150 or so. Then what really happened has definitely been overshadowed by lore and clergy's adaptations, and the history of the church and religion have had the time to evolve into something less changing and more concrete.

It gives plenty of time for invention of steam- and clockworks. It also gives the chance for the empirical discovery/use of some of our more every day chemistry and engineering. Light Plant oils + alcohol + controlled heat = biodiesel fuel... something thats so simple to create, that could easily be manufactured by the inventors guild, and sold at a premium instead of having to use dirty coal and wood like the less fortunate have to use. Things like rubber aren't out of the question either, since it is naturally occurring. Rubber-soled shoes could be a sweet item to purchase... making stealthing much easier than with hard soled shoes like most people would have, given the technology available.

 

My idea for timekeeping...

Months and days? First, Second, Third... "12th day of the 3rd month, year 1162"

Its hard to argue with its simplicity, and ease of understanding.

A year is 12 30-day months with a 5-day "Festival" (or Festivus... hehe) period at the new year for a total of 365 days. Simple enough? Weeks aren't necessary, other than maybe on every 6th day there's church services.

 

Disrupting fuel shipments, sneaking about a fuel plant, corrupt fuel manufacturing administration, labor rights and sweat-shop labor issues, the list goes on... all workable ideas to place into missions.

 

edit: What about traders from the east? i.e. Persia/India/China-like places. There could be a bevy of good material for missions if given opportunity for a "Eastern merchants quarter" much like a Chinatown. A whole host of cool items and even some cool weaponry could be had. Just a thought...

 

Map, Anyone? (My ideas come in floods and droughts.)

Noble's Shire: Self Explanatory

N. and S. Agria: Small scale farms and farming community

Guildhall: Residential district, mostly the Inventors, Merchants, Healers, and Magi. Not nobility, but people who are generally fairly well-off. Also, the location of the schools and... you guessed it! The guild halls.

Old Village: Residential district, home of the less fortunate

Industrial District: Self Explanatory

Old and New Merchants Quarters: Trade and Commerce centers. More established businesses are in the old quarter, and newer upstarts are in the new quarter. Seafood is also sold here.

Farm Market District: Self Explanatory

Stonewall Island: Home of Stonewall Prison

Botannica Islands: Largely unsettled due to some strange and exotic beasties. Magi gather here due to large amounts of magical energy that emanates from these two islands

Shipyards: Self Explanatory

post-2046-1184450878_thumb.jpg

Edited by DigitalNapalm
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Did you just put that map together?

 

I have to say, not sure if you intended it or not, but it looks an awful lot like Tokyo in the layout, with the grand palace being right between the guildhall and market district.

 

Interesting work, anyway. Food for thought.

Some one official will have to tell you what their plans are on laying out districts for the city, though.

Edited by demagogue

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Did you just put that map together?

 

I have to say, not sure if you intended it or not, but it looks an awful lot like Tokyo in the layout, with the grand palace being right between the guildhall and market district.

 

Interesting work, anyway. Food for thought.

Some one official will have to tell you what their plans are on laying out districts for the city, though.

 

I did it all in about 20 minutes, and I had no intention of making it lay out like Tokyo.

I kind of reasoned it out from where things would be naturally. Trade areas next to the shipping, farm market in the center of town... its a fairly universal renaissance city layout, really. Its just an idea, but its as good of a place as any to start. If they want to use it, I could actually layer in some major roads and landmarks. They'd just have to tell me where they wanted them. Or I'd even be willing to do an entirely new map, and add whatever, wherever. I may actually spew out a few more of these, and make a more "official" idea.

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That's great stuff, DigitalNapalm! I'll have to take a closer look later today.

 

Some one official will have to tell you what their plans are on laying out districts for the city, though.

Let the mappers work it out. ;) I don't know of any specific layouts that have been prescribed in any sort of real detail. Something like this would have been laid down for the (indefinitely postponed) campaign, not by the toolset. Springheel would know better than I.

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Well if the FM's want a good base and are all want to refer to the same place... it makes sense to me to have at least some kind of minimal city layout for everyone to refer to.

 

I was also thinking about the builder's logos and such... You may be stepping on some copyright toes with the lone red hammer as the symbol. I have a couple of ideas in the works if anyone on the team's interested.

 

...Also, logos for the other factions? I know the necromancers may not have any kind of outwardly displayed logo, but like a cool wrist tattoo or something they can show friendlies would be nice.

 

The Inventor's Guild should definitely have a logo if they're officially sanctioned by the local government. So I'll see what I can come up with for that.

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