Vista and Dark Radiant don't play well together

[Baddcog]

Well this is a real pisser. I was gonna buy XP, but NO. Looking at $200 bones for XP and $200 bones for vista I , in a spur of the moment #uck gotta get this machine running NOW decision, decided that Vista was best for future upgrades and also that it would allow me to use all my Ram.

 

Well, Dark Radiant is buggy as hell in Vista. And only 3 of my 4 gigs of ram gets used anyway.

 

Anyway, issues with Dark Radiant 095 so far.

 

It starts up fine. But the windows are mostly white. No grids.

When I load a mission it loads entities and whatnot. The camera view tends to be empty. Usually only one orthagonal view shows.

 

I did have luck once getting camera view to open the second time I loaded a map, and subsequent loads would still show 3d view.

 

But after that I haven't been able to get anything to show in camera view at all. Even after loading many maps and restarting Dark Radiant several times. I have also rebooted the computer.

 

This really sucks, Darkmod is the only thing I really work with, now I have this brand new fast as hell tower, a nice large flat screen monitor and they are basically worthless. I can model, but I can't test them out. I can photoshop, but I can't see the results in game.

In the middle of a map, but now that's stalled out.

 

I'm more than happy to try and debug but I'd need someone to hold my hand and walk me thru it. I don't know the first thing about programming and as far as I can tell no one else is using Vista?

 

Welcome to Baddcog's world of horrible decisions.

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OK, I went and cried about it a bit, then tried to think of causes to the problem.

 

Let's see,

 

1- Vista has new fancy windows with shadows and crap. I really like my green scheme, but what the hell, I'll try windows classic. (BTW, I have home basic so I didn't get the fancy 'glass' AERO windows, just slightly fancier than XP), Vista look no transparency.

 

Sure enough, I fire up darkmod and all the windows load fine. I tried several options and this is what I found so far. I'm gonna try and find at least an XP theme 'cause classic is soo damn ugly.

 

Classic Windows Scheme works fine. I suppose with any custom colors you'd want as this is old school.

 

Vista Basic windows work with Dark Radiant, but this is basic windows with the minimize/full screen/close buttons inside the window bar (like old buttons). It is also light blue with no color choices. The problem with this is when you mouse over menu items you get a white square and the word dissappears. You can still select, mostly it's a weird visual thing.

 

Vista Standard windows don't work at all, if they do it is very spotty. Most likely the effect is that 3d window won't load, xy views might load but nothing can be selected in them. You can drag a new brush but it will disappear right away and the console says something about a bad brush being removed. These windows have shadows and the minimize/full screen/close buttons are at the very top of the window, not within a 'bar' like old buttons.

 

Vista Aero no doubt won't work with Dark Radiant at all, but I can't test that.

 

So luckily the problem has a work around and I'm not F'ed after all. Whether or not the team wants to try and get DR compatible with Vista Windows by 1.0 release, well, I don't think it's probably worth the effort unless someone knows what the issue is. It's a slight bummer but nothing a dedicated modder can't deal with.

[ascottk]

My laptop has vista home premium. I get the white screens in DR & D3Ed too (could be the crappy intel gfx chip but I doubt it). I should try the classic look but toshiba's alternate key app relies on aero.

[Baddcog]

Well, I have a pny 8600 GT OC 512 MB. Not top of the line but not crappy either.

 

I think it has more to do with the dll that runs the vista themes.

[greebo]

You're not the only one using Vista so far. Subjective Effect and angua also had DarkRadiant running in Vista (angua had Vista Ultimate 32 bit and an ATI Mobility X1600). It definitely is working, but obviously not on all systems.

 

It sounds more like OpenGL/driver issues in combination with Aero on your end. At the moment, I can't do anything about your problem, though. Angua already wiped her Vista off the PC again (she had one Explorer crash too much), so I don't have any systems to test it on right now.

 

edit: Can you post a screenshot of the "Help > About" window in DarkRadiant?

 

edit2: Did you buy the 32-bit edition of Vista? I do hope you did not, otherwise you're surely stuck with 3GB RAM.

[Baddcog]

I got Vista Home Basic

 

So I don't have the Aero engine. Basically the same look, but no transparency, none of the 3d rotating windows on desktop. None of the high security buisness stuff. So basically on my machine as is ALL vista windows cause issues, though the basic ones kindof work.

 

I did instal 32 bit for now, but I can get a 64 bit disc which I plan to do, I probably won't instal that anytime soon though as by this point I'm sick of installing and just want to use my comp (I reinstalled windows 2 weeks ago on my other machine)

 

Yeah, my comp registers about 3070 MB of ram right now out of 4 gigs. ut this machine can take 8 and I've got 2 slots open, so when I go to 64 bit I'm ready.

 

 

 

I'll post some screens later.

[angua]

What window layout are you using? I used a floating layout in vista and it worked (even with all the aero stuff), maybe this helps. I still got some other graphical glitches, but oh well

[Subjective Effect]

It only works for me if I have Aero off.

[Baddcog]

Well, I don't have Aero so I was just using Vista 'standard' windows. This barely worked with DR at all.

 

I tried Vista 'Basic' windows and this works but I get white out text in the menus when mouse over. They still work, the text just disappears.

 

So now I also have a 'Windows Classic' set-up theme that I can switch to to edit DR with no probs.

 

I searched last night but unfortunately you can't run a XP theme in Vista.

[Tels]

Well, I don't have Aero so I was just using Vista 'standard' windows. This barely worked with DR at all.

 

I tried Vista 'Basic' windows and this works but I get white out text in the menus when mouse over. They still work, the text just disappears.

 

So now I also have a 'Windows Classic' set-up theme that I can switch to to edit DR with no probs.

 

I searched last night but unfortunately you can't run a XP theme in Vista.

 

And people ask me why I run Linux...

[OrbWeaver]

Most Vista issues are likely issues with GTK, which are out of our control. Unless the GTK developers provide fixes we are SOL.

[Tels]

Most Vista issues are likely issues with GTK, which are out of our control. Unless the GTK developers provide fixes we are SOL.

 

End-users don't care whether the issue is because "OS 123" doesn't work with "library 456", or whether "library 456" doesn't work with "OS 123", all they care for is that "Program ABC" no longer runs under "OS 123".

 

And yet, they still go out and buy "OS 123" for $ 200 and hope somehow it will work with "Program ABC" in the end. *shakes head*

[oDDity]

This is the only app I've had any trouble with under Vista, so I'd point the finger at that.

The only reason you don't have much trouble for linux versions of apps, is becasue 90% of apps don't even have a linux version.

With the vast array of apps available for windows, 100X more than all other platforms combined, you have to expect to have issues with a few of them.

Blaming the OS is an oversimplification.

I suppose Linux is 100% bugfree is it?

[Baddcog]

And people ask me why I run Linux...

 

Why DO you run Linux???

 

Should I have known that vista windows would be incompatible with GTK? It's not like there are posts all over the internet that says vista don't work with Dark Radiant unless you run 'classic windows'. And I would've never thought that the window graphics would be a problem anyway, I am running the most basic version of them after all.

And who would've thought that MS wouldn't even include XP Themes when they have themes from 95.

[Tels]

Why DO you run Linux???

 

Various reasons, mainly because it is free (free as in "freedom", not free as in "free as beer", but not having to pay for it certainly helps, too)

 

I don't mind paying for software that works. But I resent paying for software that neither works nor let's me fix it.

 

Should I have known that vista windows would be incompatible with GTK?

 

Vista is incompatible with so many things that's it a wonder that anything runs at all

 

It's not like there are posts all over the internet that says vista don't work with Dark Radiant unless you run 'classic windows'. And I would've never thought that the window graphics would be a problem anyway, I am running the most basic version of them after all.

And who would've thought that MS wouldn't even include XP Themes when they have themes from 95.

 

There are posts all over the internet that say "Vista doesn't work with XYZ", so I thought that would have given enough hints that it would be better to test stuff with Vista before buying it.

 

I mean, we are talking about Microsoft, who seem to be able to screw up software since over a decade, but I guess people just don't learn

 

Hopefully you can either exchange it for XP (which after so many years, is somewhat stable), or somebody else fixes GTK or MS fixes Vista or whatever.

 

As long as you run DR and can create more wonderful stuff, I am happy

[oDDity]

No, you use it for the same reason everyone else does, because you can then laud it over the windows-using plebes.

The one thing I've noticed ALL linux users have in common, is their taking of every opportunity to drone on endlessly about it, and insinuate how only the intellectual elite use linux (the perfect OS), and all the idiots use windows.

What's actually true is that only nerdy little autistic computer geeks with glasses like the bottom of sawn-off coke bottles use linux, and everyone who's normal uses windows and shuts up about it.

The worst thing that could happen to you nerds, is that everyone started using linux, because then you'd no longer be able to have you little delusions of superiority.

[phide]

Well, Dark Radiant is buggy as hell in Vista. And only 3 of my 4 gigs of ram gets used anyway.

You need the 64-bit version to address all 4 gigs. I believe all you'll need to do is pay Microsoft a few bucks to send you the 64-bit version...so you can encounter even more problems with your drivers and applications!

 

Do you have a spare XP license? If you have a license that isn't currently attached to an existing machine, you can re-use that serial on a new installation, and I believe it'll validate as being genuine (though it may request that you call Microsoft to inform them of a major hardware change). All you'll need is the CD.

 

EDIT: Failing that, OEM copies of XP Home 32-bit are about $90.

[New Horizon]

What's actually true is that only nerdy little autistic computer geeks with glasses like the bottom of sawn-off coke bottles use linux, and everyone who's normal uses windows and shuts up about it.

The worst thing that could happen to you nerds, is that everyone started using linux, because then you'd no longer be able to have you little delusions of superiority.

 

I don't wear glasses, or contacts.

 

I use Windows Server 2003 and Ubuntu Linux. I use Windows for my day to day work, and Linux for personal use. That's changing though, the only reason I don't use linux for work is because I'm so used to the adobe suite. Once I am more efficient with the vector apps for linux, I'll do all my work there.

 

Linux is really great, I gotta say. I've had far fewer hassles with it than windows.

[Subjective Effect]

I can see why people might choose to use Linux if they had a bad time with Windows and I rarely hear complaints about Linux. But that might be due to fanboidom, and in any case you won't hear me or many others moaning about Windows. Office perhaps, but not Windows.

 

oDD is right in that I often see Linux users boasting about it and looking down on Windows users.

[ascottk]

I wear glasses I used to get so fed up with windows (any version) and try different operating systems. My absolute favorite was BeOS. Damn thing was quick, idiot-proof, and stable but Be was bought by Palm so hardware compatibility sank after that. Haiku OS is an open source OS in development that wants to be BeOS compatible.

 

I love Linux but maintenance is a bitch and AV apps, although more apps are being developed, don't match Windows/Mac AV apps. And a lot of audio interfaces like M-Audio, PreSonus, etc. don't currently work in Linux. I would only go back to Linux because of the Enlightenment window manager (I like eye candy), GNOME, and running the Gimp natively.

 

ReactOS (wants to be WinXP compatible) is in development and making progress so I'm looking forward to that.

[oDDity]

Heh, I think what we're discovering here is that it's actually harder to use windows than linux, so windows users are actually the clever, adaptable ones who have to work around various problems, while linux users have a simple, hassle-free existence.

[Springheel]

Game and match to Oddity!

[New Horizon]

Heh, I think what we're discovering here is that it's actually harder to use windows than linux, so windows users are actually the clever, adaptable ones who have to work around various problems, while linux users have a simple, hassle-free existence.

 

Haha, partly true, but with linux I'm able to devote my time to actually learning and using the OS...instead of trying to work around it. lol

[greebo]

It's amazing how many Linux users have the annoying ability to turn any thread about a specific Windows problem into a childish "my OS is better than yours, ha ha" discussion. It's not terribly helpful, I might add.

 

It's not like Linux users don't have problems, and no Windows user is coming to that thread saying "ha, why don't you use Windows?".

 

I mean, we are talking about Microsoft, who seem to be able to screw up software since over a decade, but I guess people just don't learn

I'm not affiliated to MS or whatever, but the occasional MS-bashing doesn't increase the coolness factor anymore. The notion that MS programmers are stupid just because they work for the company that made Windows is political bullshit.

[Baddcog]

Yeah, I could swear that not too long ago someone was having problems getting DR to work with Linux.

 

Windows are good, living without them is like living in a cave

 

Ah, whatever

[sparhawk]

So could we agree that Linux is superior and then go on with the actual problem of the thread?