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Thank you, good work! I almost thought the database (=Forums Content) would be lost. Think you could burn it down some time? stop with the pron ftp lolz

Actually, both of them are working just fine (they may need some slight graphic and sound tweaks, but nothing major). It's something we've talked about doing--to be able to bind keys to specific inventory items--but I don't know if that's going to be done or not (time issues, don't ya know). You're not going to get everything exactly like Thief, as this isn't Thief. Our official stance on the bow sight is that it won't be included by us, (and frankly, isn't needed...once the "lobbing" issue is fixed and you get used to aiming without it, you'll have no problems). But I'm sure someone will mod one in so you can add it to your game if you want.

640x480 is quite a bit of a low resolution and I don't think we can do anything for this as the menu is rendered by doom. (You antialiasing might also effect it) I guess this is because the background itself is also quite bright? Healing potiens and flash bombs are not really done yet It should eventually be an option, because half the people say "I want it!" (count me in and the other half says "I don't want it". We were not really sure if it causes problems. No, as there is no support for different "quality settings" yet. All textures come only in one size and we use pre-compressed textures to keep the size small. It is not yet know if this will be in v1.0. Thanx for testing and liking it Also, please note that TDM is not Thief. It is not even planned to be "exactly like Thief". It will be different. And we hope it will be better

Every so often I turn on the public forums just to see if I'm missing anything.... Apparently not.

Was really just an explanation at komags request I think I missunderstood... oops. I was just explaining that there wass NO problem for me installing TDM on a steam release of doom3, I jst explained that i used my old disk to save time (lost cd key, came with a gfx card ) all thats needs to be done is to change the path for install and it works perfectly. if anyone has any problems with steam feel free to message me and ill help any way i can Original post deleted to save confusion.

Hehehe...I know what you mean buddy. This looks more involving. You should see the silly debate in the other thread: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...amp;#entry72677

Yawn. If I wanted these kind of debates I'd go to... dunno... Gamespot forums or something.

Hmm, latest drivers fixed a bad game crashing issue... A lot of folks are having problems with the patch, some with the dll, others with a Firefox plugin, others with Steam, others with God knows what, but people who have relatively recent drivers are unlikely (just as you were) to think they need new drivers. This should probably be listed somewhere in the instructions for the mission, that if all else fails, a very VERY recent set of drivers is recommended!

the speed of the character is spot on IMO. you can move from very slow (crouch and ctrl) to very fast (standing up and shift). that is in human terms, i mean. doom 3 and most of fps games are way faster, but that's a design choice, they're supposed to be fast paced action games. btw, i wanted to write some feedback too, but i haven't read the 'already known problems' thingie. thanks! although i'm not a maya user, the tutorial looks great.

Both of these problems are known. The blackjack will become easier to use and I'm under the impression that the current sword system is more or less a placeholder until somebody has time to improve it. We've been hearing this a lot, despite that the movement speeds were carefully timed to match Thief. There's been some speculation that either people aren't aren't aware of the run key or that something (perhaps footsteps, head-bob or field of vision) makes movement feel slower than it is. Any comments?

Well, I didn't do a memory test since I don't think a pre-beta demo acting weird warrants that as first course of action. What I DID do was disable the Zotero plug-in http://www.zotero.org/ which seemed to be the problem. Now it runs with FireFox in the background, just what I always wanted... I meant the Windows username. I don't think Doom3/TDM should suffer but DarkRadiant seems to have problems with that. If I temp create a user without strange symbols like å ä ö in the name it works, otherwise it complains about not being able to write to the log, wanting me to check the write priviliges of the Radiant directory. I've had this problem before with other apps, as I mentioned before, e.g. GIMP.

Somebody else also said running firefox in the background caused problems, so please do a memory test. Do you mean the player name inside Doom3? This is not editable from Thief's Den, so it should cause no problem. Or do you mean the user name from Windows? I don't think this is a problem, tho.

HoORRAY! problem solved! =) in case anyone else is having similar problems, here's what i did: i closed everything unimportant. specially the avg antivirus, and went to the task manager and stopped any avg related process too. and the file i downloaded earlier unpacked successfully

Just played the demo. I have to say it was awesome. Had that Thief feeling, but still new. Positive Mantling has become really good. I first had problems getting anywhere in the beginning until I understood that you were actually able to climb better than in Thief. Finally weapons do realistic damage. \o/ Critique Cycling through the keys to be able to use them on a door? Why is this a necessary design choice? It's only annoying and awkward. I understand if this was a choice if you were running away from guards and have to use a locked door (which doesn't happen 95% of the time). I had a hard time getting off that ladder. Could there be a way to making it easier? Animations are a bit awkward, I did read that you were short on animators so I shouldn't complain. For some reason ------------------ I so can't wait another year or so for this to be finished. The demo was really good.

Are there, perhaps, any Asheron's Call veterans around this forum? I use to play the MMO back in 2000 and 2001. In short, I loved the game, and I doubt there exists a game which I have enjoyed as much to this day. Asheron's Call (AC) was very unique. Every detail of the game seamlessly conformed to an utmost alluring and extraordinary fantasy theme, unlike any other. It didn't follow the depreciated "elves, trolls, dwarves, and dragons" cliche, but rather had it's own particular form of fantasy. AC had "Gromnies," the mysterious "Virindi," the simple-minded "Drudges," "Golems," the ever feared "Shadows," "Banderlings," "Sclavus," "Monougas," "Mattekars," the brutish, humanoid "Lugians," "Phyntos Wasps," and vast, countless other forms of inhabitants. All of these creatures resided in an enormous and seamless, 575 square mile large game-world known as "Dereth," a landmass extremely varied and mysterious. One could spend real-world days simply journeying afoot across its vast expanse of grasslands, forests, mires, deserts, beaches, rolling hills, mountaineous ridges, and snowy peaks (not to mention its seemingly unlimited magnitude of dungeons, catacombs, and caves), venturing about and perhaps stumbling upon unexplored areas. Each of the game's widespread locales had a particular atmosphere and dwelling of inhabitants. A newly arrived adventurer would find comfort in the relatively unscathed eastern territories of "Middle Osteth," harboring numerous consoling and populated towns of the likes of "Eastham" and "Cragstone," and with a wide variety of critters that gradually, but moderately grew more and more vicous the farther one distanced themselves from a trail. But those daring and battle-hardened could venture into the unexplored and feared "Direlands" in the distant west, where in the most ferocious and erratic creatures lingered and the refuge of fortress or commune did not exist for a hundred miles or more. Map A player had the choice of selecting one of three races, all of which were part of a congomerate "Isparian" race (essentially a human): The "Aluvians" (Caucasian), the "Gharu'ndim" (Negro), and the "Sho" (Asian), each of which had different inherent advantages, but which were generally insignificant in difference. In stark contrast to the "cookie-cutter" MMO's of today (IE: World of Warcraft), in Asheron's Call each and every player was unique. The facial customizations alone were so extensive one could go several years into the game without ever finding two players with the same set of characteristics (and there were different facial sets for each race), and this is not taking into consideration the varieties of skin tone, and hair color and style. Though, most importantly, not only were players defined unique in their appearance, but most especially in their player-defined attributes. The skill system is still probably the most extensive and well-designed out of all MMO's to date *1*, and there were so many forms of armor, weapons, gems, jewerly, clothing-attire, special-loot items, and other articles (5 years later, in this day and time, the item-set selection has likely doubled) that I do not believe I had ever come across a set of players who looked even remotely alike, or even two items that were exactly alike for that matter. Items were randomly generated in their appearance, worth, weight, color, special-affects, and usage-requirements upon defeating an adversary *2*. Overall, though, what I enjoyed most about this game was its challenge, longevity, and vastness, and this is the same area in which the game met its downfall. Early on in Asheron's Call (back when I played), it obliged at least two years or so to reach the maximum level--level 126. This estimation is solely for those who played in a mode of consistent hunting ("powerlevelers"), ignoring the many other features of the game, such as trading, questing, alchemy, spell research *3*, fishing, exploration, cooking, and "lore-research" *4*. In addition to these, one might also spend their pastime aside from hunting straightforwardly socializing with the wonderful community Asheron's Call had. AC's design encouraged socializing and cooperation between players of all levels, through certain personal benefits one could capitalize on. Aside from the obvious advantage of traveling in numbers, players who formed fellowships would be granted experience rewards. Likewise, the game touted a novel allegiance system, where in players could form patron/vassal relationships: Lower level players could swear allegiance to a higher level patron, in which they would thereafter become their vassal. The patron would be responsible for providing the vassal with items, knowledge, and personal assistance (all the while competing with the offers of other patrons), whereas they would personally receive a percentage of experience gained by the vassal in return. On the same token, Asheron's Call was just as suited to solo play as it was to cooperative. I know for a fact, as I personally enjoyed individualistic play in substitute to aggregate during my years. One was highly capable of perservering on their own means, not depending on the services of others. This was relatively more challenging, but, as a result, much more gratifying in the end--once accomplishing something. Though, this is not to say I never involved myself with others in AC. It's not often that you find an MMO in which a good portion of players have a friendly and non-rival decency about them, and a quality beyond a tiresome droning towards acheiving the highest level or finding the most popular, highest-experience hunting spots. For mellow players such as these (a good handlful of them were roleplayers), it would have probably taken much longer than two years to reach a high level like 126, but I do not believe such a feat was much of their concern. And, even so, the level cap did not have much significance *5*. This longetivity is one of the primary reasons I enjoyed Asheron's Call; the game seemed to never end. AC didn't necessitate a minuscule duration of two weeks to a month in order to "complete" the game, as is with many newer MMOs. And it was not as if level progression was a slow and tedious task without recompense. Had this been the case, there would have not been a point in dedicating so much time to the game in the first place. Rather, Asheron's Call was more of an adventure filled with much variety *6*, mystification *7*, and peculiarly random events *8*. And with the monthly content updates and live events the game received, in addition to the huge content base established at the release of the game, it would have been quite a feat (in other words, if you "have a life" outside of the game, outright impossible) to experience every bit of content the game offered to its players. But, alas, nothing this good could last for even a few years. The developers of Asheron's Call, insistent on ever improving their game, took to the likes of an aweful development scheme, in which they turned to their players for development/modification concepts. One might think this is a reasonable idea, but--as it turns out--players do not really know what they want. I can specifically remember the day when "Pyreals," Asheron's Call's form of ingame currency, became burdenless (Yes, characters were affected by the weight of items, depending on the level of their strength attribute). At first, this was a change that I didn't think much of. It was welcoming in that my character's movement was much faster, but, at the same time, it was surprisingly disapointing not having to worry about storing or carrying pyreals and my other various items strategically. I was oblivious to the motives of such a decision, and I didn't bother questioning them at the time as I had figured they were insignificant. Little did I know that this was the beginning of a whole slew of gameplay-altering changes that would ruin Asheron's Call. The next thing I knew, portals leading to virtually everywhere in the game were emerging all about the world of Dereth. Players had complained of needing to travel on foot to various locations in the game, and the developers--ignorant to the consequences--acted accordingly. Had they simply pondered the fact that eliminating any bit of necessary on-foot travel would render all of the inbetween land masses useless and entirely desolate, and dismiss all prospects of the once natural adventure that occurred in between such areas, I doubt they would have considered such decisions. I can recall traveling in fellowships across the huge Dereth landmass, depending on one another for "survival." It was quite an experience to say the least. But now all it took was one step into a swirling-portal and I was immediately at my intended destination. It was simply a shortcut to the prize; there was now no journey involved, and the "journey" or challenge--to many people's ignorance--is what makes a game fun. It was only a matter of time before other decisions and modifications of the same blazons arised. Players decided the extremely unique and intriguing spell research system*3* was only a nuisance, resolving that all spells should simply be bought at an NPC in the form of scrolls available in all towns. Persistent spell durations, previously lasting between five and eight minutes, uniformily began lasting twenty to even thirty minutes. The usage of ingame plugins were condoned, and as such "buff bots," non-player assisted "bots"--controlled by cleverly designed macros--offered all characters augmentations unintended for their rank, allowing them to hunt in areas not nearly intended for their level (this resulted in overly fast-paced character progression and unchallenging experience acquisition. Buff Bots are now treated as an ingrained "part of the game," and all new players are sadly encouraged to use them). "Double-Experience" weekends were introduced at whim if there was any sort of downtime (as the players could use this as an excuse). Drop rates of once rare items now surfaced on every other corpse. Many other miscellaneous and once challenging features of the game followed suit, and would either removed or castrated like the others. It was about this time that I left the game. As a result of all these nonsensical changes, the game had become rather boring and monotonous. There is no entertainment in obtaining a reward if there is no effort involved to obtain it. Three years after, I returned for a day or two to see what had become of the game, and it was even worse than before. Instead of the steady, yet enthralling leveling pace of two years to reach the highest level, give or take a few months, one could reach level 126 in a mere month or two--less if you were experienced in AC. As a result, 80% of the game's unique and classic content--of which had been designed for the previous gradual progression--could now be rushed through quite instantly. Much of the "hunting" areas, dungeons, quests, exploration, and great experiences once occurring in this content might as well have been removed. Pyreals, formerly having substantial value, were now a common place in that they dropped excessively on all creatures, and in that loot sold from creatures was amended with extravagant payback (whereas the price of items sold hardly changed). It was as if the developers really believed there was some merit behind the thoughtless rants of complainers, as though there was some public good beyond their obviously selfish intents to simply augment their alter egos. And from all of this, probably the worst of all changes transpired within the community: the Unattended Combat Macro (UCM). Expectedly, Asheron's Call--a once intriguing, immensily fun, and challenging game--had become boring. As a result, players decided that if the game was not fun, then why play it at all? In fact, why not simply run a program that would play the game for me, allowing me to continually advance 24 hours a day, without any effort? So, nowadays (as I hear anyways), 50% of the active population on each server is not actually "active," but more or less just some script repeating itself in a far off dungeon. Knowing what the game had once been, and what its further potential could have been, it is really sad to hear the cries of new players consistently complaining on the Asheron's Call forums about never once seeing another player in all their time in the game. It is estimated that there is about 150-250 players active, half of which are bots, on each of the 7 AC servers at high times. I can personally recall when the active server population rarely dipped below 1,800 on every server. 'Tis a sad story. *1*(In the year and a half that I played, there were more than 30 skills to choose from, including but definitely not limited to such things as "War Magic," "Missile Defense," "Life Magic," "Cooking," "Dagger," "Staff," "Archery," "Alchemy," "Arcane Lore," "Jump," "Deception," "Mana Conversion," "Unarmed Combat," "Sword," "Run," and on and on. The player had the option of training or--in a further advancement to training--"specializing" in any of these skills, depending on how they utilized their "skill-credits," and, afterwards, spending experience on whatever they preferred accordingly. In addition, the player was given "attributes," a base form of stats (in a different category than the skills system) which encompassed such things as "Strength," "Endurance," "Focus," "Coordination," "Health," "Quickness," and so on. All of these decisions based around XP and skill credit allocation affected how your character would turn out--not just in the beginning of the game, but all throughout. Your decisions affected, for example, further experience costs, special-items requirements, and such. There wasn't simply a "Sorcerer" class where every other "Sorcerer" was virtually the same character as your "Sorcerer," give or take a few minor differences. You were completely unique.) *2*(In addition, and most interestingly, recently I heard the developers introduced a "Rares" system, in which each player has the capacity to receive a randomly dropped "rare" loot item belonging to one of seven or so tiers of rares. The higher end tiers of rares, albiet quite hard to attain, are completely unique in the game, meaning they have entirely custom-designed models and special abilities, solely attainable by one player.) *3*(Initially, the role of a mage was quite novel in Asheron's Call. There were seven tiers of spells attainable in the game, and additional levels would render themselves usable as you progressed in a specific profession. From what I can recall, of these seven levels, for each of the magical professions of "Life Magic," "Creature Enchantment," "War Magic," and "Item Enchantment," there existed a vast collection of spells. Most were uniform across each of the seven levels in their type and affect, simply growing stronger and lasting for longer durations at higher levels (For instance, there was a "Flamebolt IV," "Flamebolt V," "Flame Arc IV," Flame Streak IV," "Frost Bolt VI," etc"). But there were so many variations and types--probably amounting to several hundred, and each had a tactical use. Far from generic or boring on there own, these spells were supplemented by special sets of entirely unique forms of spells, each of which had individualistic affects and animations. For every spell in the game, there existed "spell components" which would need to be combined in order to cast and learn a spell, and this is where "Spell Research" came into play. The spell components that founded these spells took the form of "Scarabs," "Herbs," "Powdered Gems," "Alchemical Substances," "Talismans," and "Tapers," each of which was compromized of a group of several dozen variations. Some types were extremely rare and valuable--naturally needed for higher-end, powerful spells, others were simply commonplace, and many were somewhere inbetween. Following a formal pattern of combination, the player would need to test combinations of components in order to contrive spells. The combinations for each of these spells were unique for every player, so one could not simply divulge their entire spellbook to their fellow. In addition, spells could also be learned by spell scrolls found in loot, though higher end ones were naturally rare. *4*(The game had its own arrangement of extremly extensive lore and story, in which players could attain texts and valuable information in the form of books, scripts, tomes, or straightforward NPC-communication, revealing the hidden facts about Dereth and its history/mysteries. Such findings might disclose secret quests, the whereabouts of a scroll for some unique and powerful spell, the appropriate combinations of extraordinary or seemingly useless loot in order to form some peculiar item, the secretive dwellings of a certain horribly powerful and legendary monster, or perhaps the lore divulged would simply be another piece of Dereth's expansive puzzle of history.) *5*(The level cap did not have much significance anyways, beyond the fact that one couldn't attain additional skill credits used in training new skills; you could still increase your skills and attributes with experience gained afterwards.) *6*(For instance, there were hundreds of different grounds of exploration and hunting. So many that even with the 120,000 large player-base in the game's peak, many far-off areas--aside from the popular and ever-changing hunting locales--were often almost or altogether abandoned, which would evoke a sort of mystical feeling of adventure--not knowing what might be around the next bend of a cavern wall or what treasure may have existed in a chest at the depths of some dungeon.) *7*(Often throughout Asheron's Call's history, developers of the game would hint at the fact that they would secretly implement much content kept disclosed from the regularly released patch's feature list. And indeed they did, as such peculiarities would emerge regularly. According to developer chats, even to this day--in addition to normaly adding such curiousities--some content back from the early 2000's has yet to be discovered.) *8*(I can recall such spontaneous events as monsters, having defeated several players, leveling far past their base level, becoming quite powerful of foes, or random raids of 30 or so of a certain creature on some town, for example.)

RIGHT!!!! OFF THE FORUMS NOW BIATCH!!!!!

Who? We? We will see how challenging it is when it is released. And nobody stops you to make it better. In fact you are welcome to join and improve it. We are always looking for good contributors. Which were still pretty easy to circumvent, because they were so big. This will not work here. *HEHE* You are living under the illusion that more realism makes a game better. It doesn't. Who said that? You must have been confusing the forums.

Yeah, strange performance problems. Runs vanilla D3 fine on high, this was quite laggy.

Somehow I've got some Performance-Problems. Had to play it on 800x600, even Doom3 itself runs more fluently. And Some of the textures looked like 10 years old But overall very nice Preview. Keep on the good work!

Hey Pink, are you able to open .ASE files? If so, and you have a spare minute, could you do me a favour: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=3880

yes seems to be down, i noticed it when i tried to look up some infos on its forums about my prob with dx..

You realise it's quite difficult to emotiate, show emotion, on messages etc ? The only person I had been sort of serious with was ZB. I've actually come across him on other forums. No one else have I not been light hearted with. You've got a lot to learn kid ! ( I'm being condescending )

I interpreted "oh" as in answer to Springheel's comment that my review was actually "a review of the website update" and not whatever else he had in mind (as I interpreted the situation), hence my comment that Spar actually did have something else in mind, which granted it still just a guess of mine, but it sort of excited me anyway. As for "Can it become more official than being announced on the front page? :S", if you mean the update itself then, yeah, I sort of agree. I was just being, you know, extra contrite because I was given the impression that I made a mistake in "announcing" it here (I guess extra-officially??) and I like being a team-player and everybody's buddy and it doesn't hurt so much for me to apologize even though I'm a little confused what I'm apologizing for... But especially if it was stepping on NH's toes, since the last thing I want to do is bite the hand that feeds us (not to mention he's been cool throughout). If you mean the website update "officially announced" the "something else" then I have to admit I didn't catch it. For a moment I thought we'd get a little taste of DarkRadient itself by the look of the link, but it was just some screenshots.* But I was of course happy to see the little blurb we got here. I still really don't have a clue what "it" is ... although now I feel like I have some speculating material to work with. * Actually, if you've been paying attention, there was a link to an earlier version of DR posted on the public forums a while ago where we could have seen it in action ... but since I don't have Doom3 yet I couldn't see it myself.

Haha ... Well, the update was up on the main page. And I forgot that NH usually announces them on the public forum page; I sincerely wasn't trying to preempt anything. Maybe just being unmindful. Maybe it's because we see the update before we get to the forums, so it's like it sort of announces itself ... and I had ideas brewing in my mind that I wanted to talk about while I was thinking about them and wasn't thinking in terms waiting for an official thread -- it seriously wasn't a sudden urge to "announce" anything. In fact, I had this idea that the update had been up for some hours before I commented (since it's already midday for me), and I actually wondered why there wasn't a thread on it yet and was looking for it to comment there, but that could have been my misimpression. But yeah, totally sorry about that NH if you wanted to announce it. Really ... I don't like being a blundering gimp when I can help it. :angel: ... Actually, for the record, I'm confused a little. Is the update what you mean by the "release"? Because when you say "hasn't even happened yet?" ... I mean, the news update is already up on the main page. Does it not "happen" until it's officially announced?? Or is there something else coming, too, that I inadvertantly "announced"? I just want to be one of the good guys, you know. I should admit, though, that it did occur to me while writing that that it's been quite fun being a backseat driver critic on these boards, all the opportunity to say this and that about this and that feature, and none of the responsibility. Thinking that just makes me feel more guilty now. But no malice intended. --------------- Edit (because this was written while I was writing the above): Ah-ha!!! You *were* thinking about something else! And now I think I have an idea of what it is!! Yippee! (If it's actually what I think it is, hell, even if it isn't ... the fact that you guys are so protective makes me think it's going to be good whatever it is). Anyway, sort of funny there.

Actually, you can get the best of both worlds. Yes, TDM is new and different, so making the old levels in TDM would give you a nice old feeling, while still playing somewhat differently at the same time. It wouldn't be much more work for a FM designer to make an old Thief level than to make a new one. I think we all know how popular the old ones would be, everyone would want to play them. I think the best way would be to use the old levels as strong inspiration rather than copying them outright though. Maybe use the map layout but change the objectives and guards etc, or go the other wya and use the story, objectives and setup of an old OM but make a new map layout to play it on. There are no legal problems to worry about when it comes to individual mappers, it's at their own risk.