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Yes,

Hello, I'm Herwig (30) from Germany. I'm a songwriter and Music producer who offers the Mod Team to write Ambient Music or Original Soundtrack for the Game or for some Missions. If this help is needed please feel free to contact me here!

beta211-08 is available. This is also considered "release candidate", so 32-bit executables are available. You can download them using this link: simply unpack these two files into TDM directory and run one of them to play. As long as you don't run huge missions, please test 32-bit executables a bit, especially on Linux.

COPIED FROM "English Language Subtitles for AI Barks". MORE RELEVANT HERE... @datiswous, I imagine the TDM fonts don't support bold, italics, underline, etc. Maybe just different sizes. I don't think color by itself would be helpful for speaker identification, unless there was a color halo or name tag above each vocalizing AI. Might be useful for word emphasis, though. @stgatilov, if there is location data available to the subtitle code, that could be used in various ways, using a different GUI: 1) Let the 3 slots be either left justified, centered, or right justified, depending on relative speaker location (including off screen). This could be implemented by 9 actual windowDefs (all of same size; 3 each for each current slot, overlaid, with each of the 3 justifications.) Alternatively, with a 3x3 grid, all windowDefs the same size, but 1/3 the current width.) 2) Or instead, at the top edge of each slot, show a short horizontal bar, whose left/right position is moved to be under the relevant AI. If off screen, add an arrow head (<-- or -->). Naming is harder, if the subtitle code can't get at that info. Though at the point the sound engine is passed the sound to render, presumably it knows the speaker, and could independently and in parallel visualize the name information (particularly if the sound engine passed back which GUI slot it was going to use for subtitle.) It is true that associating a name (say, using a small tab-like field) with a slot is less useful when the player doesn't know the AI names (i.e., with no floating names above the characters). If the technical issues of naming could be overcome, then there's still the question of when you'd want to give a name (Rupert) versus type (thug #3) versus generic (speaker #2). Also have to handle special cases of (narrator) and (player). Dreaming... Instead of text names, more fun would be to show a thumbnail face of each AI next to their slot. With a question-mark face when they are off-screen?

Excellent! I don't have screenshots of the first missions in hand right now but I've definitely studied a lot of Brosius' work (man responsible for the original Thief OST). He employs the use of a lot of reverse tracking, to layer into the mix. It's two fold as his work is usually supporting as a soundscape, just as much as it is a soundtrack. The deadly shadows OST is by far his best work in my opinion. I've done only a bit of audio work in my personal projects and the best way I can describe the method is drone mood. More dangerous areas are overwhelmed by hypnotic yet dissonant drone, that has area relevant sampled audio strewn throughout. Samples might be things like bells, or scraping metal, or even incoherent whispers. The samples walk a fine line, as they need to remain relevant but not mislead the player as mistaken directional sounds from within the game. Less dangerous areas should be more calming in mood. My recommendation (depending on the theme) is to have two versions of the same track. Sharing the same theme and tempo but one handling tension and the other being more calm. These are extremely useful as well, since a single area may have the same theme but also share more dangerous sections. A tavern for instance, inside and outside. Outside theme would have semi hypnotic drones but the inside version (that the game would activate when the player heads inside) would be an alternate version that breaks much harder into the mix. This helps keep the area thematically wrapped up in a single track but with it's own sort of onion layers that the map script can toggle through. It's less work on your end, as there's less to compose but it keeps the areas feeling very organic and memorable. This is definitely aided by knowing the theme to these sections. You then really control the reigns as to setting player expectations, based solely on what they're hearing. It definitely helps to know the intent of the project/level, so my recommendation is just to play the two missions and get a feel for it yourself. Feel free to message me or hit me up on Discord (Epifire#9773)! as while I'm no professional, I love audio work. I have some personal examples to draw from in a shelved FM I was heading off, so I'd love to chat more if you about the venture.

Languages... maybe it's time to finally get into this mess. I'm afraid there that would be a long story, and subtitles won't even be the first issue. Regarding ID of the speaker. Let's suppose we pass the entity of the speaker into the subtitles code. How exactly should it be used? It would make no sense to automatically add names like "tdm_guard_generic07: I've got him cornered!"

The mission database has been updated with a new version that includes subtitles courtesy of datiswous! Thank you!

I just finished it. Amazing mission I have to say. Graphics still hold up a decade after release. Gameplay and story also good.

Well, we work on this project for players so I wouldn't be so quick to discount your own input. We probably need more player input because forum posters are really atypical people. I recall someone once stating that over 80% of a forum population are lurkers who just observe the discussions of others.

It seems to me that suggestions like this should be judged on a case by case basis. Breaking older missions is a great detriment to the project and community, yes; but one can imagine scenarios where enabling new gameplay modes and new outlets for FM maker creativity might outweigh that consideration. Imagine if the mod had launched without dynamic lighting, or the ability to move objects, or to swing on ropes. Should those features be permanently off limits just because some missions were not designed with them in mind? I think not. The project needs to be able to grow and evolve in order to remain healthy. The problem with the mantling suggestion is that no one has made a cogent argument for why aping the Thief 1&2 system would be a major improvement over the status quo (other than that it conforms better to a few users' expectations). Carrying bodies across the thieves' highway is not a situation that comes up often. Hardly anyone is actively complaining about it (unlike the blackjacking situation), and the community isn't actively excited about exploring the limits of encumbered acrobatics more in future FMs. In fact I struggle to imagine how such a mission could be any fun at all. The preservationist argument has a lot more weight in this case because the proposed benefits of the change are so rare and marginal. Even if we can't specifically point to any mission that would be broken, the amount of work it would take to check would be prohibitive versus the limited utility of the suggestion, so I think the preservationist carry the day by default here. (Ideally this sort of argument should be hashed out well before people start coding.)

Yeah, a few people got stuck on that one:

Subtitle capabilities available in 2.10/2.11 are described in the wiki "Subtitles". For info about one new project using these capabilities, see the thread "English Subtitles for AI Barks". That project includes development of a TDM subtitle style guide. The thread here is mainly focused on ideas that would require future engine changes to implement. A. Automatic Switching Between Subtitle Languages Based on Settings This is a follow-on of a forum discussion between datiswous and Geep. It is desirable to have a standardized method for: subtitles to be authored in multiple languages, and so packaged and distributed as part of TDM and its FMs a gamer to dynamically select subtitles in a desired language The subtitle language choice might be controlled by the existing TDM language choice within Settings, or a separate "Subtitles Language" setting. B. Other Possible Improvements Requiring Engine Changes Most of these involve allowing the subtitle code to know something about game entities, and convey that to the gamer. Examples of useful knowledge: the ID of the speaker (or other source) the location of the speaker, relative to the player, the player's view, and other speaking AI. This type of information helps to disambiguate when there are multiple voices present. There are lots of ways such info is visually conveyed in other subtitle/caption systems, and might be added to TDM. C. Providing Subtitles for Existing FX These would have the "verbosity effects" subtitle tag. Beyond 2.11 capabilities, some of the location aspects of (B) would be pertinent.

@datiswous, I imagine the TDM fonts don't support bold, italics, underline, etc. Maybe just different sizes. I don't think color by itself would be helpful for speaker identification, unless there was a color halo or name tag above each vocalizing AI. Might be useful for word emphasis, though. @stgatilov, if there is location data available to the subtitle code, that could be used in various ways, using a different GUI: 1) Let the 3 slots be either left justified, centered, or right justified, depending on relative speaker location (including off screen). This could be implemented by 9 actual windowDefs (all of same size; 3 each for each current slot, overlaid, with each of the 3 justifications.) Alternatively, with a 3x3 grid, all windowDefs the same size, but 1/3 the current width.) 2) Or instead, at the top edge of each slot, show a short horizontal bar, whose left/right position is moved to be under the relevant AI. If off screen, add an arrow head (<-- or -->). Naming is harder, if the subtitle code can't get at that info. Though at the point the sound engine is passed the sound to render, presumably it knows the speaker, and could independently and in parallel visualize the name information (particularly if the sound engine passed back which GUI slot it was going to use for subtitle.) It is true that associating a name (say, using a small tab-like field) with a slot is less useful when the player doesn't know the AI names (i.e., with no floating names above the characters). If the technical issues of naming could be overcome, then there's still the question of when you'd want to give a name (Rupert) versus type (thug #3) versus generic (speaker #2). Also have to handle special cases of (narrator) and (player). Dreaming... Instead of text names, more fun would be to show a thumbnail face of each AI next to their slot. With a question-mark face when they are off-screen?

Yes sorry,

@AluminumHaste, why are there two files runners\ornate_red_black03_HD.dds and runners\ornate_red_black03_HD_d.dds? Can I remove ornate_red_black03_HD.dds?

Glad you enjoyed it datiswous, and thank you again for the subtitles! Most of those bugs you found are just simple mistakes I made (or are inherent in the mod), but the two related to light textures are bugs that were introduced due to the game updating - you can see the proper textures on earlier let's plays. Alas, thankfully they're not too bad.

I think @Daft Mugi’s goal in exploring all of these things is smoothing the transition from thief players into the mod of which many, including very prominent fm authors, are vocally critical and dismissive of often because of these types of mechanical differences we are all used to at this point. It’s an effort worth encouraging, even if some changes can’t make it into core over concerns like backwards compatibility which could be valid in cases like this. Either way I would offer the script up to mappers as a way to extend their missions if it’s possible to package it in such a way. The example of Volta was brought up as one which might potentially break as a result of this being implemented at the core level - that is also a mission where the player movement speed, the ai damage model and animation rates, weapon animation rates, blackjack behavior, etc have already been tuned extensively by the author to be more like thief. While not as extensive I did similar things in my mission. So I would think there may be authors interested in designing around more thief like mechanics. Probably a valid argument that it also bad for these things to be inconsistent across missions, but the ship has sailed at this point and this type of extendability is also what makes TDM great. Personally I find it a bit annoying when mappers don’t design a railing or ledge to allow a clean body drop over (come on - just make 40 units please), but there is no arguing that regardless of whether or not they intended this as a consequence, they did certainly design that way.

I would love to help you guys out with some original Music. Since I dont actually played the mod or have time to do so I could use some additional information for these 2 Missions. Maybe a small script of the Mission tasks with some Screenshots of the Town or the overall atmosphere would help alot. Sorry to do it that way. If you could provide me some Information, I would start write some Music.

For a particular reason yes, it probably can be added, but "for some reason"?... What exactly is the typical problem? Syntax errors of .srt of .subs files not reported? The engine has debug command com_showSoundDecoders, which displays all currently playing sounds on screen. It should be easy to add a small tag here showing which sounds have subtitles and which not.

I thought about naming sounds by who said them but did not got any particular scheme. One problem here is that subtitles are supported inside the sound engine, where sounds no longer have any source: you just have a sound and probably location, but not something like who said it. I made sure that a subtitle for a sound does not move between slots. Other than that, there are 3 slots for simultaneous subtitles, and I guess some prioritization. But if there are many guards talking at once, it would be chaos. As for colors: it should be possible to generate color automatically but it won't help anything. It should be possible to specify colors inside subtitle files, similar to the way verbosity is now specified. To be honest, I'm not sure it's a good idea to give names, since player usually does not know who speaks. But that's of course mapper's preference: sometimes player surely knows who is talking in a cutscene, so why not.

I'd say that's not the best analogy here, because dynamic lights or moveable objects and physics are mappers tools, so they can be added or removed at will. You can create a mission with static environment and lighting only, and if you can make it interesting, more power to you. And, it doesn't affect any other maps, retroactively. But, if you change aspects of the core mechanics e.g. player abilities, that is carried over to every map you play. In other games, you don't see major updates to player abilities; noone adds wall-running to a game that didn't use wall-running before – at least not without reworking geometry of all maps. I agree with the rest of your post though, just thought that there is a certain distinction here (things controlled by the mapper vs being at players' disposal on map start at all times).

Here some screenshots of "bugs" I encountered: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1hz-_xDTqusfE4_HJ4srrJzhFBEgPAFzf?usp=sharing (not much though)

No not at all, the subtitles were generated from speech and corrected by Moonbo. Only when I was looking for a hint, because I was a bit stuck (I missed a staircase) I found your video and saw that it has subtitles.

The thing is, if some mission author decides that he wants a whole area without any dark places (for whatever reason), and you can all of a sudden easily climb up a ladder, and dump all bodies on the rooftop, then that's not the way the author intended it to be, just because an update suddenly implements carrying bodies up and down ladders. Just a (stupid) example, there are probably much better examples. In the end, as you say, I don't see a compelling reason why you'd want to be able to make such acrobatics anyway when carrying a body, when there's more than enough spaces on the same level in most missions which don't require you to mantle up and down anywhere. Anyway, maybe I shouldn't get involved that much, as I'm a mere player, and never really contributed anything useful to the mod anyway.

I wonder why. Are you somehow frustrated with the way or the pace the mod is being developed? I consider critical considerations about future implementations a very good thing. With so many missions out there, it's extremely sensitive which changes can be made without breaking existing missions, or allowing for things which were not intended. And, I think that especially people who are relatively new to the mod should listen to core members who work on this mod for years and years.

We will gladly accept new ambient music! Thank you! As mentioned elsewhere, Mission 1: A New Job and Mission 2: Tears of Saint Lucia are our pack-in missions and it might be nice to have a custom tailored score for them too.

Apparently srt has some basic formatting options, but they're not used by tdm (tested), which is a shame. Especially font color and line position would be useful I think.

Multiple guards (up to 3) should have their speech appear in separate fields. Within the limitations of 2.10/2.11, my draft guidance for generic barks ("verbosity speech") is never to include AI name info. However, for an FM-specific phrase ("verbosity story") just said by one character, you could include the name or other ID. (I'm still researching if there is a consensus on best-practice format to indicate the name). Beyond 2.11, color is one of many way to go. Reminds me, I was going to set up another thread for that... done. See link to Subtitles - Beyond 2.11 in OP above.

I'm playing this mission know, but I'm totally stuck at the puzzle with the soul jar that is in the cage in the temple. I tried activating the shrines in order, but I don't know which is the beckoning earth and maybe I'm missing something in general.

I am not betatesting 2.11 but upon playing some older missions with the latest beta version I noticed that when I try to minimize dark mod by hitting ctrl+Alt+delete and the choosing the process from task manager right click minimize, the game crashes.

Don't worry, I'm sure loads of people will complain about it when it's released. Which is pathetic. Every time I read stuff like that "Wow, it looks so great!" on a review of a new AAA game, I can only shake my head. Games are so ridiculously shitty in terms of gameplay these days that I wonder if 99% of the developers worked on the shiny graphics. This game, on the other hand, looks like something I want to play for a change. Unfortunately, you have to go Indie for such games these days. But then, where's the problem? Shiny graphics are so 2022.