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The beta testing thread is up:

It is possible that this is a setting that needs to be activated to work: https://mantisbt.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23221

This was a fix in 2.11 beta, so it's included. I asume sound materials are included as well..

This is my first mission, and I think I reached a point where I really could use some feedback on what I'm doing, to see if it makes any sense. It's a small, easy mission, inspired by Thief's Den and The Bakery Job. I also need a bit of help fixing a few issues I'm stuck with.

I know this is a bit late for 2.12 Beta 3, was planning on asking earlier but other things kept me busy. Latest TDM version allows toggling not just crouching but also walking and sneaking, which is a great feature and I prefer it over having to keep the key pressed. There is however one problem I keep running into: There's no indication as to when crouching or walking is toggled, the same way there is a HUD element for crouching. This can be a problem when you're sneaking from a nearby AI or stuck in a tight space, as you need to test which modes are used by walking around. Think there would be a way to make the symbols on the sides of the lightgem also change shape based on those modes, or another good way of making them clear? Also noticed an additional problem: Sneak and run are mutually exclusive yet get enabled independently. I often find myself not knowing why I'm slow, noticing it's because creeping was on, but then I disable it to find myself running and making too much noise so I have to hit the run key as well but a guard may have already heard me... you basically need to tinker with two keys to switch between the 3 modes (creep, walk, run). When both creep and run are set to toggle, would it be better if pressing either key would also toggle the other mode? Yet another confusing though less problematic aspect is the toggles not persisting between saves: I have running turned on, do a save, run into trouble and reload, then I'm suddenly slow again. Since crouching is persistent in saves, can the toggles for creeping and running do the same?

I am going to sort-of reveal that this is loosely like the nature of my upcoming mission. I noted it here when JackFarmer asked about things that are coming along in this post: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/profile/37993-jackfarmer/&status=3943&type=status It too is a builder church. The player is requested by a hopefully famous character in another mission to handle some business that is affecting the congregation. I am looking to invoke some info and history laid down in other missions as a hook story.

Is the change still not good enough to make it into vanilla as implemented? I imagine it's too late to make its way into the current beta for 2.12.

This is based on the tdm_subtitles_message.gui given in the stgatilov's post you referenced, and also identically in 2.12 beta 3. I have reviewed this as you requested. I can't speak to the accuracy of the green bars in your screenshots, but the calculation seems correct. It derives from the calculation in mainmenu_settings_guisize.gui (of beta3), which finds the top edge of the bounding box of the Inventory Pickup Message (e.g., "Acquired 80 in Jewels"), then reduces that to account for the subtitle backing field height of 37, plus a 4 pixel gap between the lowest subtitle field and the pickup message. I also confirmed that the beta3 calculation of the top edge of Inventory PickupMessage is identical in both mainmenu_settings_guisize.gui and tdm_inv.gui; the latter is part of the HUD during game play.

I created the page: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Lightgem In the source I placed the following text: <!-- Page text made by forum user Fiver: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22327-how-can-i-create-an-account-on-the-tdm-wiki/&do=findComment&comment=491145 --> Personally I think the page isn't really necessary because the info is already present under HUD.

Since I got a request for it, here is a 2.12 beta 3 compliant version of the Fresnel Mod: https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-mod/addons/fresnel-mod-212-beta-3/ Also, the Animated Grass Demo has been made 2.12 beta compliant: https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-mod/addons/arcturuss-animated-grass-demo

Oh wow, how did I miss that? I still need to finish my ongoing FM and the save would likely be rendered incompatible, so I'll check the beta and this feature out once I find the next FM to get to

We have entered beta already. Beta 3, which was a week ago.

Here is the final release of The Wench, with Dragofer's Dec 9, 2023 sound file revisions (see bugtracker 6284), as included in TDM 2.12 beta3: testSubtitlesWenchFinal.pk4 The revisions correct a few mismatches between what was said and what the intended purpose was. The statistics are little changed. The testSubtitlesWenchFinal FM will run under beta 3, with the same GUI as testSubtitlesCynic. Details of Revisions There were no changes to the collection of .srt files. The changes affect only the .subs file (and what's in testSubtitlesWenchFinal's FM-specific sound shader). It is too much effort and time to revise the Excel spreadsheet, of early "v1" barks template form. Instead, if the reader wishes to do so, start with the WenchOriginalSubtitles.xlsx (available via the original Wench post), and apply the changes below. The total number of rows is unchanged.

The problems with the lightening texture has vanished, moreover, the camera screens work now perfectly, I had here and there strange results (glass texture not showing up, lights do not show up) in 2.11 and the previous beta. Thank you @stgatilov

About Errors Running Recently-Created testSubtitles... FMs under TDM 2.12 Beta 3 Console gui parsing errors now occur in the FM's custom version of tdm_subtitles_message.gui, because Beta 3 no longer defines SUBTITLES_TEXT_BORDERCOLOR. To correct this, in the testSubtitles.../guis/tdm_subtitles_message.gui, comment out the 2 lines that say: bordercolor SUBTITLES_TEXT_BORDERCOLOR Or replace with the so-fixed and updated version of this file from testSubtitlesCynic, to be released shortly. Early testSubtitles... FMs created during the first half of 2023 may need additional surgery to run without error.

Let me know when the sound file renamings done by Dragofer for bug tracker 6284 are incorporated into the beta release. (This may have already happened, dunno.) Then I'll revisit the Wench subs. EDIT: @nbohr1more, I see beta3 has updated Wench sound files with modification dates of Dec. 7, 2023. So I'll take it from there.

All of the final versions are merged into SVN core. The Wench still appears to have issues so that will need to be worked out after the next beta releases.

In the first post of the other topic Geep proposed: Then Stgatilov's answer: But I think applying subtitles in different languages shouldn't be too hard I would think, but I don't know how the current translation system works. The engine should apply the correct subtitles based on the applied language setting, this doesn't need a whole new language system I think. Not sure who's going to write those subtitles though. I can only do Dutch and English and nobody needs Dutch I think. I suggest further discussion of this to take place in topic https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21741-subtitles-possibilities-beyond-211/

Yeah it would be cool to see some more detailed statistics and it’s a shame they aren’t really captured. Since we are talking about fan mission platforms, where players also make the content for the game, I feel like the best thing we’ve got is you can look at the number of content releases for the games. Keep in mind the graph counts campaigns as single missions - so for example NHAT and TBP both count as 1 mission. A good year for TDM has has approaching maybe 50% - mostly we’re 25-30%. https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152494 You could also look at the number of ratings thief missions get on https://www.thiefguild.com/ vs TDM ones, but that is pretty iffy in that you could chalk that up to more awareness of the site in the thief community than TDM Out of curiosity is there a reason a thief player can’t be a new player? I kind of think a player is a player and new players would be ones who are playing the dark mod who weren't? Is there disagreement the base of players most likely to pick up the game are fans of the thief games? They are certainly the most fruitful place to find feedback on the game beyond the sphere of this forum that I have seen. When we were trying to finish up SLL there was a lot of discussion on the forums about how long it had been since there was a release for the game. I am thankful that the stats show at least some stability over the years in terms of releases for TDM, but the trend for all of the games is decline. Not doing anything is a valid response if that’s what the devs want to do - it is not possible to provide evidence that any effort will slow that inertia. As a player and content maker I would just prefer trying to find feedback where it is offered from players who were willing to try the game but ultimately could not engage with it and see if there is anything that can be done within reason to ease them into the game. The game has a lot to offer imo. All those players are potential contributors - contributions in turn attract players - it’d be nice to see the cycle go on as long as it can.

I was asked to help test the mantling changes and I was neutral about them, but I am supportive of any changes that might encourage new players while at the same time not ruining my own experience. Since upgrading to the 2.12 beta branch I've got used to the faster mantling and quite like it now. Same with the frobbing changes, leaning and all the other stuff that's gone in.

All right y'all. We need some good ole data instead of 28 pages of -- well, you know. The "mantle roll" is the amount the view rolls or tilts during a mantle. So, if you could be so kind as to: Launch TDM 2.12 Beta Go to Settings -> Gameplay Set "View: Mantle Roll" to: 1.0 and test in game (100% of original mantle roll) 0.5 and test in game (50% of original mantle roll) 0.1 and test in game (10% of original mantle roll) Finally, vote for your preferred setting. The increased mantle speed changed the feel a bit and perhaps the mantle roll would feel better tweaked some to match it. (Edit: To clarify, this is about a potentially different default mantle roll value. The "View: Mantle Roll" slider in the settings will remain, regardless.) This thread is for your click-ity click vote on the poll at the top of this page. All constructive comments about the increased mantle speed in 2.12 are welcome on its own, wonderful thread:

Strange things you’re seeing. There was a hang/CTD early in beta, but that was fixed. If it happens again, capture your log files (darkmod.log, qconsole.log).

Your latest design is OK, but doesn't touch on several aspects that I addressed in my design: ring lower edge no longer crushing the top of 1st line text excess backing field below text 2nd line trimmed, to allow space for (1) backing field behind ring, as I believe requested by snatcher & datiswous I could further discuss this and the narrowing issue, where views differ, but I'm more than OK to "switch from background boxes to outline around text", as you suggest. There is still leaves improvements to ring vertical spacing - a la (1) - and not have the ring interior be transparent (probably just opaque) - similar in spirit to (3). And of course, actually implementing it in the beta. snatcher found 8-fold to be visually best. The minor artifacting with the scaled Stone font (e.g, a wisp to the left of a capital T) will become more prominent with drop shadows. But that could be addressed in a font update to include native Stone 12pt in 2.13

I have been quite careful to ensure that making the subtitles narrower for barks (but not story verbosity) is not potentially breaking. Examples of this treatment have been included in all my more recent testSubtitles... releases. Yes, this is "crucial" for me. Regarding the padding issue, to restate: TDM 2.11 and on through the 2.12 released beta version use a subtitle right text padding of 20 px. While some padding is necessary, this does a poor job of centering the text visually in the backing field. This is obvious with a short bark. My redo of this, with padding of 7.5px on both sides, fixes it, while I believe not causing any problems for word wrap of subtitles with the given compressed font & scale. I'm provided several versions above of this fix (code hidden as Spoiler). Most recently, this was with snatcher's suggested tabbed location ring and vertically-tighter backing field, here This version will also be incorporated into testSubtitlesDrunk, to be released tomorrow just released. I would urge you to incorporate this code (or a close variant) into the next beta release.