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Just throw in however many joints you think looks right. The model will stretch and shrink in-game, and we can decide how many joints we need for the maximum length to look right. For now, anything will do. Make it 5 or something. Here, please have a read of this http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=1052&hl= It describes what the rope will be, in detail.

For now I'm going to spawn the hanging light for the rope, but its going to get in the way, with the huge light fixture at the bottom. It would be really good to have a working rope mesh to work with. We have a lot of aesthetic models, but nothing functional. No weapons or anything. Does anyone else think that the modelling really has to start to focus on the things us programmers are going to have to test with? Modelers will need to go here http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...indpost&p=14120 to see my post on how to find the good tutorials, and learn how to name joints ready for rigging in the game to rag-doll physics, which is what I need for the rope arrow. Well the direct link to the tutorials is here http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic...3017&highlight= Just remember to follow my tip (in that post I linked to) about scrolling down PAST the video tutorials till you get to the text tutorials. Then scroll down to the modelling section, it has the info you guys should need. (If you see "modelling the plasma tick" then you're in the right section) (Also there is how to get animated models in the game, which you guys will need to know to make the weapons) Well the most pertinent link I could find quickly is this http://www.planetdoom.com/leveled/videotut...ain/index.shtml Which actually has tutorials on animating and rigging. However, they're all video tutes. They are all about 20mb, but you should only need the one that has rigging in it (down the bottom). I'm sure if you search, you'll find some text based tutorials. I found built in stuff for a ROPE in Doom 3 - yes a rope, that has physics applied to it and everything - however you can't climb it, it's just another form of rag doll. What it does mean is that probably the hardest part of the "visual" part of the rope has been done already, but the game is missing a rope mesh. Looks like they half implemented it and didn't make the mesh. So all you guys really need to do is model a rope mesh with the appropriate number of joints, and name them correctly. But I'm going to tell you guys how to look into the parts that links your model to the physics in game. At the very least, you can see where your joint names need to match up with what's listed in the .af (articulated figure) files. Either you'll have to make your own .af files, or at least give us programmers a list of joint names in your model. So here's how to get your hands dirty by looking at .def files. There's no programming in there, its just a bunch of file name associations and settings for individual objects. It's where meshes and animations are linked to the in-game objects. In pak000.pk4, there is a folder called "def". That is where all the def files are. The one with the rope in it is called "env.def". Open it and search for rope. Here you can see it is pointing to mesh files at models/md5/environments/ropemesh.md5mesh and models/md5/environments/ropeanim.md5anim But if you go to the "models" folder (in one of the other pak files, I can't remember which one), you'll see that neither of those files exist. You'll see a line that says "articulatedFigure" "env_rope.af" To get to the env_rope.af file, no need to delve through pak files - in the Doom 3 editor, type "editAFs" in the console tab. It brings up a window where you edit "articulated figure" properties. Choose "env_rope". Now you can see a bunch of settings, but really, I think I will take care of the details there. But you guys should know about it because I THINK that's where you start telling the game what you named your joints when you were modelling. That's pretty much all I can tell you for now. The rest should be found by searching www.doom3world.org or the rest of the web. The link I put up there is still a good place to start.

TYROT has a little too much on his plate right now, so he's asked that I assign the lightgem to someone else. Here's what we need: A lightgem model based on the first design on the page: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=703&hl= The design should stay fairly close to this, although there is room for modification. Specifically, the gap between the outer ring and the lightgem isn't necessary. Adding certain design elements from either oDDity's or Atti's model would be fine. The gem and the compass should be modeled separately, even though they should look like one model when on screen. The gem will have 16 different textures (from light to dark). The metal parts should be textured in a dark and rough fashion, like oDDity's version on the page above. Only one spike (the North one) should remain smooth and shiny. The gem itself should be very similar to Oofnish's version, as everyone quite liked this look. Any takers? Now that Spar has the lightgem more or less working, it would be great to have the actual model in-game.

Yes. You can throw punches from different sides and do a counter-attack, which usually leads to death of your enemy I just recently (not a week ago) played the game through. Here're some of my thoughts: What I didn't like about it was the feeling of me running in a tube. The levels were too narrow and pretty straight forward. You never really got any choices to make, saying which road to go. And in a sneaking game that's pretty much the worst thing you can do IMO. I did like the whole Riddick character. Anti-heros are always my thing. And yes, Vin Deasel do rock your socks, and so does the other voice actors. Also liked the 'preying mode'. Kinda succesfull. The HUD is pretty much perfect: when you're just running along without no combat or anything, there's nothing disturping you on the screen. Very well done. (Take a hint Dark Mod team. Oh, and when you were hanging on a rail and moving sides-to-sides the view throwed you in the 3rd person mode. Otherwise it's always 1st person. This system could allow you guys to make the Dark Mod game environment even more usefull, like I've stated in my previous topic -> http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=679 This way it wouldn't look bad to make the thief more acrobatic. The drawback is of course can the thief fans take it. Overall it was worth the 36 euros I payed for it, but it could have been A LOT better.

now that's why we dont give access to our forums for any greenpeace activists... btw do i underand correctly that you throw these things together on one day?

Ishtvan, I raced through your post as I'm at work, so pardon me if I'm stating what you've already written. First thing, loudness (dB) decreases as the inverse square of the distance, yes I think retracting aditional dB depending on the material the sound collides against is well in order, but coming up with a muffling factor for every material is more a trial and error thing - it all boils down to what "feels right" ingame. Regarding your steps question - a whisper heard from 10cm is about 30dB loud. A normal talk between two people is approx 70 dB loud. Using these two as reference I'd say normal steps would be in the 50dB area, while running 60dB at least (add clothing noises, breathing etc). Sneaking steps would be in the 30dB area. A 10dB increase in loudness is perceived twice as loud as the original sound. A 20db increase in loudness is perceived 4 times as loud as the original sound. Some trivia: sound becomes painful at 120dB and at 180dB your hearing tissue dies. Don't ask me where I pulled this from, my memory is a dark realm of foggy matrixes and unidentified information. I'm sure more detailed (and perhaps correct) data can be found online, but as a starting point this should do. mrD

I don't know much about sound, but I can guarruntee that the other Thief games didn't go into this level of realism. Footsteps are artificially loud for game purposes.

Hi guys, Eventually, I will need input on realistic values for sound propagation. In order of priority, here's what I'll need: -Data on the human hearing threshold for impulse sounds -How loud (in dB) is the max volume caused by typical walking footsteps when you're standing right next to them? How about jogging footsteps, sprinting footsteps? How about on different surfaces (carpet, floor)? Then I'll also need values for jumping up and down and dropping stuff. If you have time to do some measurements with a sound meter that resembles the human ear frequency response, that would be awesome. (I realise that a lot of these you guys have already made a lot of these into SFX files. I could simply measure the rms or peak-peak volume from those, but I'm not sure if they're normalized to their real-life volumes. That is, do we make some SFX, like stepping on carpet, louder than it actually is to make sure the player hears it?) -Loss per unit length when going thru various materials (metal door, wood door, etc). I can probably look these up in a table (actually, the reference site I posted in sound programming has values for loss thru materials for a few frequency ranges, so I'll probably just use the mid-range losses and see if it sounds realistic). Finally, I want to make sure I'm using realistic formulae. Doom3 uses quadratic falloff (1/r^2), which I believe models geometric spreading of spherical sound waves in free space. Sound waves confined to a cyllindrical tube falloff as (1/r) if I remember right. Which is more accurate for propagating thru typical indoor spaces (rooms, hallways?). Also, I assume this gives sound in dB, that is : sound( r_0 + r ) [ in dB] = sound( r_0 ) * 1/( |r|^2 ) [in dB] (for free space sound starting at vector r_0 and propagating to vector r). Also, for later on, for a room that absorbs a lot of sound energy upon reflection from the walls/floor/ceiling (eg, a carpeted room). If you had to account for this by multiplying by an additional loss per unit length, [dB / m ] what do you think this value would be for various lossy materials on the floor/wall/ceiling? (eg, carpet, wood panneling, tapestry lined wall). Any help is appreciated, and again there's no hurry, I'm still writing the code framework, and tweaking values to reflect reality will be the last step.

You know you're playing too much Thief when... ..you start making posts on internet forums entitled 'You know you're playing too much Thief when...'

I thought we had an agreement that we keep silent on public forums about the new abillities of Garretts special moves and martial arts capabillities.

Yeah, the requests were the main reason why I started this thread. Maybe we should let the others know about it.... post a link in the other forums, maybe?

Moved from Voice set Design Document Thread Dark Mod Voice Set: As of January 12th: 2005. This is a key to what types of noises will be available for The Dark Mod. The first several lines are a description of the sounds. Following this is a number. This is the approximate number of wav files associated with the particular type of sound. The last line is the suggested name for the first wav file of that series, a number at the end will indicate which number it is when more than one is recorded (example: builder1sleep_1, builder1sleep_2, builder1sleep_3, etc.). Beneath the names for the files is an example for each line. They will be improvised under my direction to ensure a wide variety of distinctive, yet appropriate, voice sets are achieved. Sleeping Sounds: Make a noise like you're snoring. (This should preferably be long, perhaps 20 - 40 seconds breathe slowly). Number of Wavs: 1 builder1sleep Greeting: You meet up with a buddy and greet them. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1greet_1 "How art thou brother?" ConversationA: General scripted conversations to add realism. Conversation A will be a general greeting. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1conversationa_1 "Greetings" ConversationB: General scripted conversations. Conversation B is a general question. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1conversationb_1 "Dids't thou partake in the holy ritual this fair eve?" ConversationC: General scripted conversations. Conversation C is a general answer. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1conversationc_1 "Nay." Relaxed: These are your humming, whistling, and mumbling noises. Mix it up by talking to yourself in some files, whistling a tune in others, coughing in some, sneezing, singing, etc. Your humming and whistling might be of religious hymns. Number of Wavs: 10 - 15 builder1relaxed_1 "Nothing but contempt for the Builder in this town I tell you." At Alert 0: On the job. Number of Wavs: 10 - 15 builder1a0_1 "Heathens would be wise not to tread in this place this evening." To Alert 1: You notice something, but you're not sure what. This should be general, such as "what is that?" etc. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1t1_1 "Hm? What?" To Alert 1 + Heard: Same as above, only this one means you notice something auditory. This should be specific, such as "I thought I heard something." Number of Wavs: 4 builder1t1h_1 "Twas that a sound I heard?" To Alert 1 + Saw: Same as above, only you notice something with your sight. This is also specific, such as "I thought I saw something." Number of Wavs: 4 builder1t1s_1 "Didst I spy something there?" To Alert 1 + Company: You notice something general when you're with your buddy and you ask him something. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1t1c_1 "Didst thou notice anything?" To Alert 1 + Heard + Company: You notice something auditory with your buddy. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1t1hcompany_1 "Didst thou hear that?" To Alert 1 + Saw + Company: You notice something visually amiss with your buddy. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1t1scompany_1 "Sawest thou anything there?" To Alert 2: You notice something general, and it caught your attention enough to warrant an investigation. (note, you're not investigating now, but will be right after you say this) Number of Wavs: 3 builder1talert2_1 "What was that, that didst disturb the Builder's hallowed ground?" To Alert 2 + Heard: You hear something loud which you should investigate. Same as above only now it's specific to hearing. "I heard that! Come out!" Number of Wavs: 3 builder1t2heard_1 "Who maketh such sounds to disturbeth the Builder at this hour?" To Alert 2 + Saw: You saw something in the shadows which you should investigate. Same as above, only now specific to seeing. "What's that in the shadows? I see that!" Number of Wavs: 3 builder1t2saw_1 "Whatever manner of creature be there in the shadows, come out now or be smote." Investigate General: You're wandering around looking for some kind of intruder. Number of Wavs: 8 builder1investigate_1 "I shalt spy thee, whoever thou be." Investigate barrel Number of Wavs: 8 builder1investigate_1 "Better check behind those barrels." Investigate chair: Number of Wavs: 2 builder1ichair_1 "Better check behind that chair." Investigate couch Number of Wavs: 2 builder1icouch_1 "Better check behind that couch." Investigate crates Number of Wavs: 2 builder1icrates_1 "Better check behind those crates." Investigate desk Number of Wavs: 2 builder1idesk_1 "Better check around that desk." Investigate door Number of Wavs: 2 builder1idoor_1 "Better check behind that door." Investigate ladder Number of Wavs: 2 builder1iladder_1 "Better check around that ladder." Investigate machinery Number of Wavs: 2 builder1imachinery_1 "Better check behind that machinery." Investigate shadows Number of Wavs: 2 builder1ishadows_1 "Better take a peek in those shadows." Investigate shelf Number of Wavs: 2 builder1ishelf_1 "Better check behind that shelf." Investigate statue Number of Wavs: 2 builder1istatue_1 "Better check behind that statue." Investigate table Number of Wavs: 2 builder1itable_1 "Better check under that table." Investigate curtains Number of Wavs: 2 builder1icurtains_1 "Better check behind those curtains." To Alert 3: You notice something general which makes you just know there is somebody snooping around. You haven't spotted the player exactly, but you're sure he is there. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1talert3_1 "Ha! Tis an intruder that doth call me to my arms tonight. Come out at once!" Spotted the Player: You see the player and are preparing to attack. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1spot_1 "The Builder shall strike thee down villain!" Spotted the Player with a Body: You see the player carrying a dead or unconscious person. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1spotb_1 "Unhand that faithful servant and prepare to meet thy doom!" Spot player distant - rafters: You see the player in the rafters. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1sdrafters_1 "There's someone up in the rafters!" Spot player distant roof. You see the player on the roof. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1sdroof_1 "There's someone up on the roof!" Spot player distant steps. You see the player on the steps. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1sdstepss_1 "There's someone on the steps!" Spot player distant street. You see the player on the street. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1sdstreet_1 "There's someone out in the street!" Charging the Player: You're going ballistic and running straight ahead at the player. RAAAAAA!!!!! Number of Wavs: 3 builder1chrg_1 Shooting: You're shooting arrows at the player. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1bow_1 "Builder guide my arrow!" Frustration: The player is out of reach (such as standing on a table) and you can't reach him. You're angry and frustrated. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1frst_1 "Thou art a craven to shy from thine punishment! Come down here!" Throw Object at Player: The player is out of reach (such as standing on a table) and you can't reach him. You're angry and throw something. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1throw_1 "Thou shalt come down and face me fiend! Take THAT Craven!" Running Away for help: You're scared and running like a sissy. Call out to your brothers for help. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1run_1 "Brethren! Help me!" Return with help spot player: You have returned with help and found the player. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1sphelp_1 "Believe me now? I told ya there was someone here." Return with help lost player: You have returned with help but the player is missing. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1lphelp_1 "There was just someone here...I swear it!" Tell by Revelation: You have been searching for the player with the help of your other Hammerites, and suddenly found him! Number of Wavs: 3 builder1rev_1 "Twas I right brothers, we doth have a Thief!" Tell by Confirmation: You saw the player, lost him, began searching for him, and now found him again with your brothers close by. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1conf_1 "The Builder hath guided me to thee again! Thou canst hide!" Tell by location alley: Saw the player in the alley and you tell your comrades. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1alley_1 He's in the alley! Tell by location atrium: Saw the player in the atrium and you tell your atrium. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1atrium_1 He's in the atrium! Tell by location bathroom: Saw the player in the bathroom and you tell your comrades. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1bathroom_1 He's in the bathroom! Tell by location bedroom: Saw the player in the bedroom and you tell your comrades. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1bedroom_1 He's in the bedroom! Tell by location basement: Saw the player in the basement and you tell your comrades. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1basement_1 He's in the basement! Tell by location chamber: Saw the player in the chamber and you tell your comrades. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1chamber_1 He's in the chamber! Tell by location chapel: Saw the player in the chapel and you tell your comrades. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1chapel_1 He's in the chapel! Tell by location courtyard: Saw the player in the courtyard and you tell your comrades. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1courtyard_1 He's in the courtyard! Tell by location hallway: Saw the player in the hallway and you tell your comrades. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1hallway_1 He's in the hallway! Tell by location inside: Saw the player inside and you tell your comrades. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1inside_1 He's inside! Tell by location kitchen: Saw the player in the kitchen and you tell your comrades. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1kitchen_1 He's in the kitchen! Tell by location library: Saw the player in the library and you tell your comrades. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1library_1 He's in the library! Tell by location outside: Saw the player outside and you tell your comrades. Number or Wavs: 3 builder1outside_1 He's outside! To Alert 0: Relax. No need for alarm after all. It was just the wind. Number of Wavs: 6 builder1t0_1 "Twas surely the work of a Heathen to get me riled up." Lost the Player: After seeing the player, the player slips off into the shadows. You are mad you lost him. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1lost_1 "Tis surely pagan shadows that envelope thee, coward!" Notice an Extinguished Torch: You notice that a torch is out. You complain to yourself about it. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1torc_1 "How canst we expect to be holy with such unreliable mechanisms lighting our way. Bah!" Relight Torch: You notice that a torch is out. You relight it. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1trelight_1 "This is the last time I relight this thing tonight!" Refuse to relight Torch: You notice that a torch is out. Refuse to relight it. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1ntrelight_1 "To hell with it. I'm sick of these things sputtering out. Someone else will get it.!" Notice Suspicious Item: There is something nearby which should not be there or something which is amiss (such as when a guard notices that a door is open and it shouldn't be open: "Hey, this isn't right."). However, you're not going up to max alert. It just seems strange to you. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1susp_1 "Hm, tis odd that." Found Body: You found a body on the ground. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1bod_1 "Thou shalt be avenged, fair servant!" Found Something Missing: There is something mission that shouldn't be. You've been robbed and you know it. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1mis_1 "Huhhhhhh! Tis gone! We have a thief amongst us!" Recently Saw Player: You just saw the player not too long ago, but the player escaped. Now, you're telling your brother that there is an intruder and that you have seen him. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1rsaw_1 "Stay sharp brother, we have an infidel amongst us." Recently Found Body: You recently found a body and are relaying the information to your buddy. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1rbod_1 "Be careful brother, one of our own kind has just been slain!" Recently Found Something Missing: You know you've been robbed and you're telling your buddy about it. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1rmis_1 "Fellow brother, didst I just see an artifact go missing in the other room. Be on the lookout for a thief." Attacking and Not Losing: These are general combat grunts that occur during fighting. These usually occur just as you're swinging your hammer (remember you're using a hammer and not a sword). They can also be taunts that occur as you swing, such as "Take THAT!" Number of Wavs: 8 builder1atnl_1 "HIYA!" Attacking and Winning: You're grunting and attacking, only now you're a bit cockier because you're winning. These can be grunts, like above, but can also be cocky remarks you spout out as you swing your hammer. Number of Wavs: 4 builder1atw_1 "Take this!" "Hiya!" Attacking and Losing: You're grunting, but now you're worried because you're losing the fight. These occur, as above, just as you swing your hammer, and should basically be the same in nature. However, you probably want to sound a little more strained... you're exerting yourself as you swing your hammer. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1atl_1 Hit the Player: You just thwacked the player with your hammer. Celebrate and ask him how it feels. Number of Wavs: 4 builder1hp_1 "One lump or two, thief?!" Hit the Player + Company: Same as above only your fellow Hammerite is nearby. Brag about hitting the player to your brother. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1hpc_1 "Look how he bleeds, brother!" Blocked the Player: You blocked the player's attack. Respond with a cocky remark. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1bp_1 "No skill of the Trickster canst match my hammer!" Blocked the Player + Company: You blocked the player and a fellow Hammerite is nearby. Tell your brother the player can't fight worth a crap. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1bpc_1 "Look how he fails! Tis poor fighting indeed!" Hit By the Player + Hi Hit Points: You just got hit, but you still have a lot of energy left. This is a grunt of pain as you get hit with the sword. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1hhi_1 "Ow" Hit By the Player + Low Hit Points: You got hit by the player, but now you're feeling some pain. This is a grunt of pain that sounds more strained. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1hlo_1 "OW!!!" Hit By the Player No Damage: The player tried to blackjack you after you'd seen him. What an idiot. Number of Wavs: 4 builder1hnd_1 "Thou canst not defeat me with such a weapon!" Blocked by the Player: The player blocked your attack. But he can't block them all. Number of Wavs: 4 builder1bbp_1 "Thou werest lucky thief!" Blocked by the Player + Company: The player blocked your attack, but you still have the advantage with a friend nearby. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1bbpc_1 "Help me get his guard down brother!" Player Tried to Block: The player is trying to block your attacks, but isn't doing so well. Laugh at him or make fun of him. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1pnb_1 "Thou arst no warrior!" Player Tried to Block + Company: The player tried to block and failed. Your friend is close by, so brag about it. Number of Wavs: 3 builder1pnbc_1 "he failed to stop our blow! We canst not be beaten!" Ambushed: You got hit in the back while you weren't looking and are feeling the pain. This is a grunt of pain, but also might be a remark to the effect that the player is a dirty backstabber. Number of Wavs: 4 builder1amb_1 "Ahhh! The trickster doth stab me!" Coming to assist: A comrade called for help and you are on your way to assist them. Number of Wavs: 4 builder1assist_1 "Hold on. I'm coming!" Ambushed + Company: You got hit in the back while you weren't looking. Why isn't your brother next to you doing something? Number of Wavs: 3 builder1ambc_1 "ARGGGG! I am ambushed!" Fatiqued: You are out of shape and have been chasing the intruder for too long. You really should get some more exercise. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1fatigued_1 Blinded: You have been blinded by a flash of light. This hurts, but try not to express it verbally. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1blinded_1 On Fire: You are on fire. Scream like a sissy. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1onfire_1 Gassed: You have been gassed. Cough, sputter and pass out. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1gassed_1 Drowning: You are drowning. Gurgle and choke. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1drowning_1 Plummeting: You are falling to your death. Let it be known that you don't like the idea. Number of Wavs: 4 builder1plummeting_1 Die Quiet: You got assassinated or blackjacked and are going down. Make a grunt, but as the name suggests, it's kind of quiet. This should only be about a second in length. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1diequiet_1 Die Loud: Yep. You're dead. Theatrics are welcomed here. This should be about 3 - 4 seconds in length. Number of Wavs: 5 builder1dieloud_1

I only wanted to discuss it here before I knew you were being added as a contributor Now we can discuss it in the dev forums of course.

Hey guys, feel free to use stuff from our "official response" (thread hidden to the public) and let me know if it needs changing. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...indpost&p=11426 One of the major selling points for me, is this; http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic...=asc&highlight= This tutorial shows how any texture can be used just like "stained glass windows", to project a colour image the same way an overhead projector does. This can be used for many dark moody effects, such as dappled moonlight coming through tree branches or windows, and obviously stained glass windows in churches. The effect will fall onto static geometry and moving objects the same, because of Doom 3's dynamic lighting. Try and imagine what someone walking under the coloured image cast by a stained glass window in a church, or under the dappled moonlight through the leaves of a thick tree. Also, the Doom 3 renderer excels at dynamic lighting and lighting quality. The shadows and lighting effects look much better than Half Life 2. The downside is that having many intersecting lights can slow down the renderer more than it's worth, hence, the Doom 3 engine is suited to really cool dark looking levels. Guess what Thief has always been about?

Hi Natureboy, Sorry for the occasionlly abrasive critiques. I know it can be quite frustrating to have people critique work that isn't complete. In the future I think I'll move these kind of posts to PMs. But what Sparhawk said is essentially true. We have so many models right now we're having a difficult time keeping track of them. Our needs fluctuate as people come and go, though, so you could always check back in and see how things are going in a few months. And you can feel free to hang out in the public forums in the meantime. Thanks again,

more or less...the sparse announcements are documented at TTLG forums (there is a Bioshock Anticipation forum there). There's been some discussion of the premise, plot etc. there, and how it is a 'spiritual sequel' to SS2.

I was trying to figure out a way the arrows could make the T2 clicking sound without using magic. Although my adventure in creativity was probably a bit of a waste of time, I wanted to try to show the mechanics of what I thought would be somewhat plausible; mechanically. The main reason for creating this is to show that if we go this mechanical route, we might want to encase the mechanics using an appropriate enclosure. I know this may not be 100% realistic, but it seemed kind've fun for me to imagine for the Thief universe. How this noisemaker arrow works: * When launched, the arrow is at it's fullest length. Arrow is at full extension. * When the arrow strikes a target (e.g., a wall), the arrowhead sticks into the target. However, some energy is absorbed on impact as the tip of the arrow retracts into the air chamber casing, forcing the rubber gasket (which is attached to the arrow tip) to compress toward the rubber gasket stop. (I say arrow "tip," but I'm referring to the front 6"-12" (roughly) of the arrow.) * This compression causes the air inside to be forced through a fairly small hole in the rubber gasket stop. The air that escapes through this hole does so at a high velocity. *The air escaping the air chamber through this hole blows the wooden fins in the center of the wooden gear which causes the whole wooden gear to quickly rotate on its axis. I envision this to rotate pretty easily. A very well-designed mechanism. * There are different sized pegs on the wooden gear, at varying heights. The distance between any two pegs also varies. The variety in peg sizes results in a variety of different *click* sounds being produced when the wooden hammer lever appropriate reacts, causing the hammer to strike the wooden platform. Some clicking sounds are softer, some louder; some possibly different pitches than others. The varying distances between pegs causes the delays between clicks to vary. * The hammer striking the platform creates clicks -- naturally. Also, the hammer lever (opposite end of hammer) creates other various clicking sounds when it strikes the gears. * There is spring tension in the hammer mechanism to allow it to return to it's default point. The tension is not so great, though, that it wastes all the energy that is being transferred through this system. I wanted to throw this idea out there. I didn't create as many views as I wanted... and didn't get to finish my visualization of the hammer lever mechanism, but I hope it makes some sense. With these mechanics, we could make the encasing larger or smaller, depending on how much sound you think will be created by the hammer. The encasing can also be pratically any shape we want it. If you feel this concept alone wouldn't be loud enough. then perhaps an amplifier and speaker could be attached to the inside of this. We know speakers existed in the Thief universe (Thief 2). The amp/speaker would also be powered by the impact the arrow makes on a target. In-line with the need to re-use, this arrow could be reused. All that needs to happen is the tip needs to be re-extended. The fact that there are sound vents makes this possible, as air can re-enter the air chamber. Note: My scanner isn't working, so I just made these from scratch tonight. The length of the arrow and other dimensions may not be very accurate. . I liked GIMG's concept of the 'drill' appearance of the noisemaker. By somehow incorporating this into my concept (see 3rd pic below), we could imagine this would create the 'whirring' noise as it travels through the air toward its target, like in T2. As a side note: I really don't like the fireworks idea. I hated them in Thief 3. I actually laughed the first time I heard it... I was like WTF??! Sounded like the 4th of July and just killed the immersion for me. It didn't seem very professional to me and I just loved the subtlety of Thief 2 clicks so much better. Let me know if you need higher res shots of anything here.

Sparhawk, I sent it to New Horizon (because he's in charge of PR, I figured he'd have people's emails ), so that he'd forward it to you and Domarius. If it hasn't reached you that way... [edit - found your email on ttlg forums. I will try sending it directly to there]

... which would probably need additional sounds. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=864

Thanks Ishtvan...we're discussing these very issues on the dev forums at the moment.

I sent you several mails without response and you never really participated in the forums. From the task that I set you I have seen nothing up until today. So the question is: What exactly do you want to help us now all of a sudden?

AND THE OUTCOME AND REASONS WHY ARE ALREADY DOCUMENTED!! READ IT, PEOPLE!! BTW, in case you missed it, this IS a direct link to the Noise Arrow Outcome post. And here it is again, just in case. I think "The Grand Desicion Thread" is the best kept secret on the entire forum. This thread is called "Noise Maker Concepts". Any discussion as to the usefulness or workings of the noise arrow should be started in a new thread, AFTER reading this policy first. Back onto Noise Maker Concepts, HOPEFULLY... As much as I appreciate the thought (and illustration time) that has gone into Springheel's ball bearing one, I really think that the original clockwork concept from T2 is great, and doesn't need to be changed. It could be loud, it's re-usable (we can assume it's wound up when retrieved or before firing), and it's beleivable. The only valid question raised against this concept, that I can remember, was by sparhawk, that it wasn't confusing enough to warrant the guards attention for so long. (Ball bearings wouldn't be any different.) But with the recent idea of elite guards not paying so much attention to them, and the fact they worked so well in T2, I don't see why the concept should be changed.

god_is_my_goldfish, and anyone ELSE who decides to quote from memory, should read the Desicions Thread (totally readable, even though its currently pending a re-format). I took the time and effort to summarise the discussions so that the outcome was CLEAR AND CONSICE, even providing a link for each topic to the thread where the discussion occured. Noise arrows are re-usable, or they're worthless. And a wind-up clockwork noisemaker (the kind found in the ORIGINAL T2 game), is the best option, since it's totally reasonable to assume Garrett winds it up again, when he picks it up, or before he fires it. And it would be loud. I don't see the point in changing this concept. And one more thing - sorry, but I find it annoying that people who don't even USE noise arrows at all, let alone as exclusively as I do, think that they can make well-informed statements on how noise arrows should work. Good stuff. I like it.

Well in that case wouldn't it make more sense to have the loud crack of shattering wood? It would work in pretty much any environment.

oh yes sure - kids are playing in an museum, or hammerite factory with fireworks at 3 o'clock am just remember your post: does your argument make any sense ? Anyway IMHO the shattering glass is the best option - it's easy for us to create it and it will look good ingame and it makes perfect sense. shattering glass in the night is loud, but not as load as fireworks - a firework would attract guard from the other end of the mansion - and that's certainly not what our thief is looking forward to....