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The points about utterly random events tanking gameplay are correct IMHO, so some sort of clue(s) is in order. Part of the joy of the game is becoming a master of the gameworld, so that you can use odd sounds, visuals, whatever to make crack decisions and win the day. There needs to be some regularization of the Thiefs world. But one of the drawbacks of the T1/2 games was that some clues were so regularized that they were'nt clues anymore they were hazard beacons. If you heard a certain AI making a certain noise, you knew without a second concern that you could do X, Y, or Z. Or if you saw a certain type of floor material, you knew you could run across it like the wind cause it was silent. In the discussion of floorboards and squeaks I propose a blend of regularity and irregularity. Say for example there are six kinds of floorboard in a particular section of a map, one squeaks bad, one a little, four not at all. Fine, the Thief can soon learn which to avoid, which to relax on, great. Now he gets to another part of the map. Same six floorboard, one squeaks bad, TWO squeak a little, three are fine. Not a major, gameplay destroying change, but just a tiny tweak. The thief does his thing fine on the all the floorboards cause he knows which are which, and he's right most of the time but WOOPs, a nice,infrequent, realistic but not overly so, random event bites him in the ass. Both ends are achieved, the Thief is able to successfully learn from his environment (good gameplay) and enjoys those advantages but sometimes even he gets tripped up (realism.) Or is this inviting disaster in terms of complexity or lots of labor for a smaller return?

We have decided to disable guest's right to post on the forums. You can still view topics but if you want to post you will need to register.

That won't be too much of a problem for us. The AI are always going to be following their patrols from the very start of the map. They never "go to sleep" and get activated by the player whenever the player crosses a certain trigger area in a scripted like manner like in some other games we won't mention. We're also planning a lot of randomness in the AI actions, so they might decide to switch to a different patrol route, or look over their shoulder randomly so you can't just assume that because they're moving away from you it's safe to cross a lit area behind them. In other words, even if we still have them start in the same place at the very beginning of the map, by the time the player gets over to where they are, the player may encounter somewhat different AI conditions every time. First of all, it's not a cop out, because we've agreed that our setting includes magic. We're making a toolset, as we have said again and again, and making a strict toolset is not really about removing options and imposing a strict setting on everyone who uses it. Some like magic or woo, some don't. Some have no problem with rope arrows, some do. If FM authors want to make a completely "woo-free" FM and put in the grappling hook but no rope arrow, that's fine, but we still want to support the option of magic rope arrows in our toolset. Side note: Even if the arrow shaft could support that amount of torque without breaking, like if it were made of some strong yet light material like graphite epoxy composite (I wouldn't use nanotube fiber for the arrow shaft in this case because you're bending the shaft down when you climb on it, not pulling it in a tensile direction. I wouldn't think a fiber composite would be strong when bent rather than pulled, but could be wrong), the weakest part of that whole system is still where the arrowhead is sticking into the wood. It's going to pop out pretty easily, either by torquing up and tearing thru the small thickness of wood it penetrated, or by popping out if there is any lateral force on it (which there would pretty much have to be when someone was getting on a rope). As for alerting animals, that's an interesting idea. It can be done right now with scripting for specific cases, and making alerted animals emit sounds that are suspicious to guards so they'll come investigate, but a general method is usually better.

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?act=Post&CODE=00&f=1 WOOT!

I can see the point that many people would find a lot of the more realistic elements I'm talking about frustrating or tedious, but I think that comes down to level design as much as anything. For example, the thief could mask their sound on stone or metal by throwing down their cloak and walkning over it slowly (a heavy enough cloak made of felt or similar material will do this), while making wooden floors more of a challenge (carpeted or not). For example, you can be quieter on wooden floors by walking very slowly, or sticking to the walls where there is usually less movement in the floorboards. Maybe this could be implemented as a difficulty option. Personally, I would not find things like this frustrating, as I guess I have played thief too many times on max difficulty settings to find typical stealth games as challenging. I guess there are two factors for me: 1, realism helps enhance the illusion that you are actually in a castle pilfering some lords goodies, and 2, realism ups the level of challenge closer to what a real thief in the real world would experience. It is too easy to go through a thief level and render every guard and AI unconsious or dead (unless you have the no knockout rules etc enabled). I also want to get away from magical elements to differentiate my game ideas from thief. Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of a game set in ancient rome or babylon, something a bit different than the usual thief setting. Maybe have a game where you can choose between playing a thief or an assassin, and having differnt characteristics etc.... Another thing that bugs me is poor level design, where you are blocked from exploring an area for no good reason (obviously, computer power and level building time will restrict the area that can be explored, but invisible barriers are not cool, nor are walls that should be climbable but aren't). Has anyone else been puzzled by the rooftop apartment in the Auldale level in TDS? How the f*** did anyone get furniture in there, when there are no entrances except by climbing?

I love how writing sound propagation code leads me to post uninformed questions in so many other development forums... Anyway, I have to load a collision model for doors early on in my code, and I have a choice about whether to let it go ahead and use the rendermodel as the collision model if no .cm file exists for the model, or give an error at this point about the door not having a .cm file. I don't know how you guys make collision model .cm files, maybe they're automatically generated from SURF_COLLISION surface when importing the model? I dunno. I'm inclined to just do what D3 does when it loads collision models, which is try to find the .cm model, and if not, use the rendermodel. Because maybe you guys like to use SURF_COLLISION in your models themselves rather than generating a separate .cm file? I just wanted to check what you modelers' preferences are. As a side note, if I'm reading the code right, for a collision model to be precached on map load, the model files MUST include a .cm file, otherwise it's dynamically loaded from the rendermodel every time an entity using that rendermodel needs a clipModel (which I would think would be bad). So that may be one argument for making .cm files.

Man, that's a funky material file entry... Try this instead: //Wood- textures/Thief_Core_2/Woodblt { qer_editorimage textures/Thief_Core_2/Woodblt.dds diffusemap textures/Thief_Core_2/Woodblt.dds }

Anything you guys would like to see from us on the PR side of things (this isn't a mod feature discussion, mmk?), or to make these public forums better, more exciting, a public IRC channel, anything? We're a touchy-feely mod team, we want our fans and critics to be treated well. :lol: Seriously though, don't suffer in silence!!!!

Not many forums can have the luxury of allowing guest posting, and it's no wonder really. http://penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-03-19

My opinion (though I'm sure it counts for little like most opinions) is that the release of the Deadly Shadows editor actually helps TDM. Why? well... Here's a quote from Krypt at the TTLG forums: I think it's apparent that no matter how great the future TDS FM's will be (and based on community precident, they will be great), the gameplay elements that were removed from TDS will be impossible to implement even WITH the SDK. Alot of people held high hopes for the TDS SDK not only for the ability to make brand new missions with the brand new engine, but primarily to re-implement gameplay dynamics (and some would call staples) of the Thief seiries that most believed the programmers were unable to fully realize due to time constraints, but that the elements themselves were still in fact latent in the editor itself. I think, even now with this new information, there are pioneering modders who are trying deperately to make a rope arrow or swim around. Unfortunately, water and rope arrows simply weren't programmed in at all. My point is that even if TDM is half as good as it appears it will be, it will feel more like Thief than it's Official sequel (TDS). People didn't moan and groan about no water and no rope arrows just because they wanted options, but because they wanted more of what they had come to expect...look how aggrevated fans of the Fallout series became when thier beloved RPG became a RTS sim. No matter how large the levels become, or how high-res you make the texures, it'll still be TDS. Once people start realising that they'll never have rope arrows and water and leaning forward etc, I think the community will be ready to try anything resembling a true Thief experience. Right now, TDM is our best bet. I think some of the TTLG crew bite at TDM because they care so much for the original programmers and creators of the "Official" thief sequel. Seems to me there'd be alittle trepidation at the thought a mod made by a bunch of guys on a game forum with no monetary incentive could make a better all around experience for free than a huge group of paid, established developers, many of which worked on previous iterations of the game, and force us to shell out $50 to play it. Just a thought. Or two. Hylix.

There are tutorials on doom3world.org on how to get your own weapons into Doom3. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...indpost&p=14120 That is in the resource thread. If you don't have access there, Ive pasted my post here; http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic...3017&highlight= Just scroll down (past the useless Video tutorials section) down to the TXT/HTML tutorials section. There, they are all categorised, into Scripting, Mapping, Lighting, In-game models, etc.

You really got the effect of the soft stuff (whatever that white material is). That's a normal map, right? My only critisism is that overall it looks a bit to clean and straight. It needs roughening up, in terms of colours and maybe shape too.

You can already block doors with heavy objects. Taking torches from walls is currently being discussed - for game play reasons, not if its possible or not. Don't know what you meant by pulling down curtains. Not many games go to the effort of cloth simulation because it isn't worth it for the resources it uses up and little it gives in return for game play. Some games have a scripted "locked in" material cutting sequence that happens when you attack a tent wall or whatever.

:lol: Just a few seconds ago I posted a similar thread in the models section. We should discuss this together, so we don't need to reorg every few months. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=1335

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...indpost&p=19130

How would you "see" me around EvilAvatar unless I registered? I don't think I need to post in the forums to be able to form a conscious opinion of the site.

Hmm.. where could this have come from??? Nah, similar to BT. I jumped into the forums around when DromEd was to be released, and had no nick. Assuming that it would just be a matter of "grab the editor and disappear" I had no idea this awful choice of a name would be around for years. Since then, I've had a few ideas for good ones, but how does one change? Bah.

Direct link: http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/archive/i....php/t-268.html

welcome to the tdm forums uglyed nice to have you here (@ others he's a pretty nice guy from the german ttlg. made some awesome custom objects for T2 )

I have searched now high and low for Doom3 tutorials, but haven't found anything beyond the most basic stuff. Do you know of any thing I should bookmark and read? Here are a couple I found: http://doom3.planet-multiplayer.de/article.php?150.200 (only the most basic stuff - I already read it) http://forums.glenmurphy.com/4/ (Not much there) http://www.planetdoom.com/leveled/tutorials/ (Simple, basic, not good...) There are a few that I think might be interesting (e.g. more than just "create your second room, create a ladder): http://www.planetdoom.com/leveled/videotuts/ (Edit: Ah, crap, planetdoom is part of fileplanet, which wants you to register with the evil[tm] gamespy before you download. Screw that Unfortunately, most of the "custom" objects (e.g. animated objects, textures) stuff deals with 3DS Max, which I do not have access to. So, there goes this idea. Is there are a comprehensive guide to doom3 mapping/scripting? If not, would it make sense to start one? I wouldn't have a problem in hosting a wiki letting us pool our wisdoms together. Best wishes, Tels

There is one area in which T3Ed could be far, far superior to TDM - The City. The City could be expanded upon (see the Map Project over at TTLG Thief Gen forums) and new missions could be plugged into it. I've talked all about this over at thiefpetition.com. And I think it is early to knock T3Ed - you have no idea what it will be like. I know the D3 engine is next-gen in comparison but still, you don't know.

now is that guy naturist or just plain perverse ? sometimes i feel things are a bit ill around these forums:)

Hi, I am registed, was logged in (it said I was) and tried to post a message, but got this message. "Sorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information. The error returned was: "Sorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information. The error returned was: Sorry, you do not have permission to start a topic in this forum Useful Links · Forgotten Password Recovery · Register a new account · Our help documentation · Contact the forums administrator" I have never been able to post when logged in, I have to logout to guest post. Could someone fix this please? I have registered, and was logged in. Doesn't make sense, if as a guest I can start a topic, but not as a logged in user. Fix this please...

You should try to make them match up as much as possible for obvious repeated actions like walks, runs, attacks etc One thing about doom animations is that they aren't basic 'run on the spot' cycle loops like most games. A walk cycle can be several strides and actually moves forward along the ground. YOu can get a plugin from the doomworld forums to import the original doom charcater animations into max to study them.

Hey guys- Here's something that we all wish we would have seen over at the Ion Storm Forums..... First of all, a semi-tribute....