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Welp I was dead on about Deus Ex 3. Soon the prophecy shall be fulfilled and Deus Ex will return to it's glory. It shall fulfill it's destiny. However this post isn't about Deus Ex, it's about Thief, specifically Thief 4. There's a curious little tidbit located at this webpage. http://www.eidosmontreal.com/en/games.html AAA games, with high quality licenses that offer exciting challenges – e.g., the first two games we develop will revive successful franchises Games for next-generation consoles – Xbox 360, PS3, PC, and Wii What other franchise could they revive other than Thief? Man I would love to work on those games. Anyway Thief 4 perhaps in the year 2011. Just remember, Unstop told you first. He can see the future. By the way here's the new and improved Deus Ex 3 forum. You can use your regular Eidos forum name and password. http://forums.eidosgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=252

Fidcal, have you read this thread? Was the crate you attached a moveable? http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=7637

@New Horizon: Can you set kshatriya up as Contributor and give him (am I right assuming you're male?) access to the sound forums?

Yes, there's definitely interaction. Contributors are allowed to air their opinion just like everybody else on the team, so Contributors are definitely not second-class team members or production slaves. It basically reflects how much you want/plan to be involved in the project. Team Members are the full-time employees, and Contributors are the freelancers, so to say. Team members are expected to show somewhat more dedication, time-wise. They are expected to stick around, and pull on the same string as the other team members to get the mod done. Sometimes this includes doing stuff which is not that much fun. Contributors can choose to work on whatever they wish. They may also take requests from Team Members to work on something specific. They are more loosely bound - as the name states, they contribute assets (textures, models, sounds) like freelancers and everything they share with the team is appreciated (this applies to Team Members too, of course). Everyone is happy when Contributors are sticking around nonetheless, that's for sure - but people are less surprised if Contributors are disappearing after a short amount of time. There are certain forums, which are only visible to team members, but these generally don't matter to Contributors. Valuable Contributors who stick around are eventually becoming Team Members anyway, the status is not set in stone at all. So it boils down how much motivation and dedication you're willing to offer - we surely need your help, but the decision is yours.

To Komaq Who are you talking to? If you want hard puzzles, there's always Riven. A great game, too. But I certainly don't like OoT for puzzles. "Don't be ridiculous, you can't learn a language by reading a foreign book, unless you have some pre-existing knowledge of the language, or some kind of rosetta stone for transcription purposes, such as a copy of the book in your own language as well." I had a Russian-English vocabulary. At first I was translating every word but then I just started ramming though it... "How could I learn Russian only by reading a Russian novel, I don't know a single Russian word, and never would no matter how long I stared at the pages" Russian is a bad example, it's a lot more complicated than English. English is a very intuitive language. You need to know a few words, but what is more important is the ability to recognize a noun from a verb. My vocabulary was pretty non-existant, it wasn't even the 300 ESL words. I understand that not everyone can drone onto a book like that. I can. "You obviously had many other resources available to you for learning English, and reading English novels did nothing but help straighten out your grammar a little." Complete rubbish. The vast majority of my vocabulary, and pretty much 90% of my grammar knowledge and feel (since learning English grammar through rules is pointless) came from Harry Potter. You obviously have no idea how the brain works when it reads books do you? Never tried it yourself, have you? I go as far as I want to go, and I find proper to go. And where did you draw that conclusion? What tells you that I am obsessed with Oblivion, for that matter? Last game I played was Lander for like an hour (that game won't let you play it too long). I haven't had Oblivion installed for like a year now. Well, that's your opinion on games. But not mine. I wouldn't know, didn't play BG much. I played NWN as NWN. Nope it doesn't. It just means you don't like certain games, that's all... And you hang around a forum. I don't see a difference. IRC is just another medium (which I only use for the Project Offset game at the moment because, you know, the forums are down). You should understand that the medium is not the message if you have brains. Oh, but, you know, while people join games on SC, they also sit in bnet, discussing the game, which is pretty normal for anyone who wants to be good in that game. Where the heck did that came from? lol I am probably less obsessed than most people on this forum. <quote>First of all, what matters or what doesn't each person decides for themselves. To some, music making matters, or drawing matters; to me, computers, and what they include, particulary programming and gaming matters, and also I watched movies who's names you probably never heard of. Gaming is a hobby just like anything else is. Even then, I don't spend that much time on them. I actually do my homework, and I have some sports to do, and I read (reading Dune at the moment), I exercise, I expore the robotics field on occassion, I program, and I play my games. Don't accuse me of the obsessed scheme, please. I simply don't agree with the label of "horrible" applied to a game that perhaps is not great, but is certainly not horrible. "Anyway, I can tell you're quite a young person, so I'll assume for your sake that you'll grow out of all this nonsense at some point in the future." I am only 17, and already a lot more mature than you are, and I suggest you are past 20. That's kinda sad.

Show me a game like OoT which is not kiddish and I will play it. But the only games designed like OoT that I know of are heXen and Turok 2, and very few others (that mostly suck). The genre of of hub-based fantasy fast-paced games is extinct, and OoT is one of the few ones that I found in addition. There is no game like heXen, Turok, or OoT, and until that genre becomes popular, I'd play anything from it as long as it's worthwhile. Graphics to me don't matter. Your statement that adults can't play games like OoT is similar to football athletes saying tennis is a girly sport. I read the books, that's where I learned my English from, and I'd like to see you read Harry Potter in a language you know 5 words in. Tell me how "childish" that is. No, it can't. TV is not interactive, and is limited in video image. OoT is a lot more than just that video image that annoys you so much. I understand that graphics ward you off, but please don't call a great game horrible just because it was intended for children, but it has such high gameplay quality that adults love it, too. No value for you doesn't mean no value for me. It's a battleground for me where I can forge my own history, especially with the editor. The thing about Oblivion is that it doesn't really matter what you do in it. You do not appreciate that, I understand. I do. I love Gothic 1 (Gothic 2 wasn't my cup of tea, or Gothic 3), and I like it better than Oblivion, but I also think it's pointless to compare it to Oblivion. Moreover, Oblivion is not what I call an RPG. It's more of a free ride action game with dialogs for me, but not really what I view as an RPG. You can accept Gothic with a low amount of detail, but not OoT with childish design? Inconsistency. If you actually believe advertisements, I wonder how you live. Advertisements are a bureaucracy curse, they are to be completely ignored, disbelieved, and despised. To consider what a game represents you look at what company made it, the name, the team, the design, and the gameplay. Not what someone said in the PR department to make the game sell a bit better. That has nothing to do with the programmers and designers of that game, they did not generate that advertisement. Speaking of advertisement, this may give someone a laugh, a guy criticizing Bethesda's Fallout 3 promotion tactic and Fallout 3 previews: http://www.diablo3.com/forums/showpost.php...amp;postcount=1 And you are...? What makes you better than people who like FF? You remind me of this guy from Twin Peaks, Albert. He was really good at something, too. But he was an ass. And that's what the sheriff told Albert: "I hear that you are real good at what you do. And, well, that's very good. 'Cause normally when a stranger walked into my station talking this kind of crap, he'd be looking for his teeth two blocks up on Queer Street." But I am used to such ignorance. I got kicked out of an IRC channel for liking LEXX and got accepted into another channel for the same reason. Members of the StarCraft Battle.net think I am some freak because they believe StarCraft and girls don't go together. Then again some guys don't want to talk to me because they are aware that I think bisexuals and homosexuals are people, too. All I can say that, unless you change your attitude, and stop being so shut down, you'll miss out on a lot of things in life, be it games, people, or anything else. Perhaps you like it that way, I don't know.

I like that point, and along those lines I have the exact opposite intuition from this: I think that, as ZB says, when a mission is not ghostable, which you can guarantee *will* happen ... *then* if the default is the ability to "not chooose any on loadout" or "in-game drop" essential tools, the mapper will have the real problem of leaving essentail equipment around (which I can see being unnatural in some cases, although it's been done in plenty of FMs and worked; it depends) or tag it undroppable and put it in loadout, and THAT will be the bright neon sign. But if the default is T2 style, can't drop core equipment in loadout or in game (just like you can't drop the ability to jump or mantle, or choose not to have it before the game starts), then the player doesn't know whether he needs it or not. It's just part of the background functionality of the game, again like jumping and mantling. Having the situation like T2 style is the way to AVOID the neon-sign phenomenon in non-ghostable cases (which seem to me will be the majority), it seems to me. But I'm not so invested in it ... because I think players will quickly learn how TDM gameplay is distinctive and there will be a learning curve whichever way is chosen, so practically it may not be as big a problem after time as it may be at first.

I made a new thread for this discussion, and uploaded videos of Oblivion AI sitting http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=7618

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=76471

Ok, I'll open a thread in the Level Editing forum then. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=7623

already done, but there's not alot I can do until I get home in 5 hours... I'd like to move this into a Holy Properties discussion thread elsewhere, if you can repost the outline of what needs to be done in the appropriate forum and close this one I would appreciate it, I'm spending time now getting caught up on 4 years of TDM development forums (at least the important stuff) also I posted in the thread about the new church map about how nice it would be to showcase holy water as well :-D.

Yes, we did, and I'm pretty sure the reasons have been posted in the public forums more than once if someone feels inclined to do a search for them.

It's not possible to let a mover follow path_* entities, these are only for AI. We also don't accept feature requests for the mod in our current state, so you'll have to deal with the following: You can let the mover follow a curve (either a CatmullROM or NURBS curve). There is some info about this on d3world and DarkRadiant allows you to edit them. I'm sure you'll find it when you search for it on their forums.

Hey there Firoso, welcome to the forums. The Dark Mod has actually two large coding projects going on: the first is the mod code itself (gameplay, scripting, difficulty settings, etc.) and the second is DarkRadiant, our customised editor. We need help in both of them, of course, but for my tastes, we need more help with the actual mod code. I recently found that we don't have holy water arrows (yet), so this might be a good quest for a starter like you. It consists mostly of D3 scripting, which you as a C++ coder won't have a problem with, I reckon. The advantage of this task is that you can do it with the Thief's Den stuff right away, as it contains all the weapons and script code you need to get started. It's complicated enought to get you familiar with DEF files, scripting, arrow results etc. We already have regular water arrows working, so you'd need to start from there. Let me know if you're interested in this task or if you have other preferences, I'm open to suggestions.

Well, I think TDS FMs still have their place for the next while, and I'll play them and maybe even make another one, and MAYBE host another TDS contest (sometime in 2007 perhaps). But all along I've felt the Dark Mod was the best solid future for Thief-type Fan Missions. Back when it was first getting started, before we knew we were going to get a TDS editor, I thought Dark Mod was a great idea and that the Doom 3 engine was the best choice for it. (little dark secret - when T3Ed did get released, I half-wished it hadn't because I was afraid it would detract from Dark Mod development, possibly killing it off altogether. I'm VERY glad my fears were wrong)

It's been fun watching Komag slowly come to the realization that no, TDS isn't the future of Thief FMs.

It's not a question of standing up to Oddity, it's a question of which side of the fence you come down on: more player freedom / less player freedom in the name of insured fun. On this issue, apparently Spar, Odd and I are on the player freedom side. @Demagogue: If the mapper forces you to keep the blackjack, that might as well be a bright neon sign saying "This mission isn't ghostable, you will absolutely have to KO someone to succeed!" Which kind've ruins the fun. I agree it takes a little more effort to make sure you put in some blunt objects with which you can KO someone, but considering how many more physically modeled objects we will have lying around than T2 FMs, it's not that much of a stretch. Assuming we code the use of items like we want to, you could use a chair, rock, candlestick, thick tree branch, whatever. As long as the map isn't a void with no items, the mapper shouldn't really have to worry that the player won't be able to KO someone if they choose to drop their blackjack.

IIRC this was a bit more of a problem for some of the FMs. There was one in particular where there were dozens of items that could be picked up for your inventory, but only one or two were actually mission essential. I ended up dragging along almost all the crap because I didnt know what I would need or not. Not that its a huge problem either. I think that if the player takes reasonable precautions, i.e. not dumping items into an abyss before he knows if its important or not, and the author also takes precautions, making more than one item available if its necessary (but not too many!) or maybe providing a note in the briefing to the effect "Dont throw stuff away willy-nilly, it may prove important!" a lot of this heartache could be avoided.

They'll call it Thief because everyone who loves Thief will pay attention and possibly buy the game. We shall see what direction they take Thief in. I bet they'll have more info coming summer as was stated in numerous conversations I had in the official forums. Anyway by the concept art what I had said earlier was true. This time they are loaded with talent like in Deus Ex 1 .

Thief 4 in the works. Told ya so . http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=76374

Just to let people know about this TTLG thread which has information and links to what appears to be evidence of Thief 4 being in development. http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120596

What was the last time you really played Thief? I definitely know, that the inventory may have gotten a little bit annoying, but even in FMs there were never THAT much items in my inventory that I thought they should have redeisgned abit. And I was usually collecting everything just in case. Listening to some of you guys in this threads one could get the feeling as if we are handling hundreds of objects on average, while we are talking a 10-20. Why? There were already suggestions how this could be handled, which I think are much better than just locking it. Though I agree that for questio items it may be ok to flag them undroppable.

I think the intent is being misunderstood. The "itches and glitches" topics are for things minor or unsure (as the first post states). Things like "hey, if I put this here does it cause a problem? It's not solid anymore..." No one's saying don't make new threads for individual topics/issues. Cramming everything into the "itches" threads would also be inappropriate and not very user-friendly. The point (as with the thread of the same name in the member forums) is just so that there aren't 700 threads for every little question or clarification. As greebo mentioned, there was an entire forum page of new threads, most asking simple questions that could've fallen into such an "itches" thread. Anyway, it's no fast rule, do whatever you like. Maybe ask yourself "does this deserve a full thread?" If the answer is yes, do so without fear. If not, just stick it in the appropriate itches thread. No problems. Can't be more clear than that, because again, it's no fast rule, just a suggestion. The threads are only there for convenience of all. So you can also ignore it. It's based on how it is done behind the scenes, and it's worked well.

There were some in the decals mtr, some test ones lying around buried, and one with monsters. Interesting, might have to look into that. I guess another cool mod would be to use them either on jointed sheets, so they could gently wave when brushed against. And maybe even a very subtle heat haze effect to simulate them waving.......... The new versions are now up on SVN. Gave the announce its own thread, since this one wasn't originally about webs. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=7593

Well, let's have a go then. You need a few things to compile the DarkRadiant sources, namely VC++ 2005 Express, the Platform SDK and the sources from SVN (you'll need TortoiseSVN or something like that to checkout the sources). There is a compilation guide on the wiki, which includes some instructions: http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php/...mpilation_Guide VC++ 2005 Express should be available here: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/de-de/express/a...401(en-us).aspx It's a large download, so beware if you're on limited bandwidth. The Platform SDK is available from the MS website for free (last time I checked). I posted some installation instructions for the SDK somewhere in the internal forums, let me dig them out... ...here they are: Let me know if you need help, no point in chewing silently on problems.