The Dark Mod "Official Story"

[nbohr1more]

(My apologies if this is an ancient topic...)

(All this came about from some TTLG folks whining about a lack of a strong protagonist...)

 

While there is a "Universe" wiki that outlines characters, factions, settings (etc), there is no official "Tale of the Thief".

 

I know that at one point a Campaign was planned that would spell-out things thematically but even if that is still "in the works" some sort of prequel story that sets the stage for FM's might enhance the experience. Especially for story oriented players. I didn't really have that much vested stake in the story concept as I have always played the mod as it I were "entering the Holodeck and pretending to be an old-timey thief" but Sotha's excellent story work has made me realize how much this adds to the experience.

 

Maybe a story writing contest and the winner's "prequel story" goes on the TDM Front Page?

 

Unless you guys already have something like this behind the scenes and are waiting for some milestone?

[Fidcal]

Presumably you are looking for some kind of universe story rather than a particular character's story - but on in which FM characters can get involved?

 

Some ideas:

 

War?

Plague

Famine

Dictator/Revolution

Undead Threat

Inventor or Invention Threat

Mages Threat

 

All of the above.

[nbohr1more]

Actually, a specific protagonist could be specified for the telling. As long as enough of the Universe was outlined in the story and it had a dramatic hook.

 

Like:

 

Starting Scene:

 

Thief's Father:

 

"My boy, times are grave. With the Builders taking over the town it's hard to earn the kind of living...

...You will need to start work at an early age..."

 

Later:

 

Thief meets kindred scoundrel and cooks up adolescent hooligan robbery...

 

Thief meets inventor with "Ultimate Secret idea" who has been on the run from The Empire...

 

Some hinting expository stuff about the universe.

 

The character in the story doesn't have to be the protagonist for all FM's but we would get to see TDM's Universe from the protagonist's eyes.

[Summer]

Presumably you are looking for some kind of universe story rather than a particular character's story - but on in which FM characters can get involved?

 

Some ideas:

 

War?

Plague

Famine

Dictator/Revolution

Undead Threat

Inventor or Invention Threat

Mages Threat

 

All of the above.

 

 

I like the Inventor and the Mages threat ideas. Endless possibilities there.

 

The undead threat has been done to death (pardon the pun). I realize there is a Plague Ward, but it doesn't have to be the undead every damn time. Maybe there was a clash between the machines of the Inventors and the magicks of the Mages, which resulted in... well, I haven't gotten that far, but it could be responsible for the so-called Plague Ward - or some other ward.

 

There's a war going on in the background in Thief, with Blackbrook, if memory serves. How about a dictator this time in TDM? Could have some stories centering on him or his favorite nobles. Hey, could be fun to rob someone who abuses the masses!

 

Well, it's obviously the decision of individual mappers to get the story balls rolling. If the story is strong, who cares if the protagonist isn't Garrett, ffs (bad language, my bad). Write what you want, fellas, I'll play!

[Sotha]

The character in the story doesn't have to be the protagonist for all FM's but we would get to see TDM's Universe from the protagonist's eyes.

 

So basically you'd like to have the mapper pay attention to something else in addition to the main story in their FMs?

"Something else" meaning in depth description what the surrounding world is like, what interesting places there are, what specific road is beset by robbers, what it is living the daily lives in the city, etc, non mission-critical lore.

 

Essentially we are talking about inter-FM-lore-linkage. I try always to refer to particularily cool places in other FM's when possible, like the Cathedral in the NHAT missions was mentioned in the Glenham tower undead thesis as one example of undead infestation (I'm not sure anyone noticed?).

 

Linking these places in readables makes the world more 'real' as places are consistent. Over time TDM lore will be accumulated. There will be many places and things every TDM fan will know, like the weird mechanical wonder, The Swing. Braeden also is a good and well established example of a place that is mentioned frequently, probably it's official.

 

So mappers! When planning your map, and your story, try to draw small links from your map to other FM's! They don't have to be emphasized or have any critical significance for your FM, just a brief mention that the surrounding world exists out there, not the void finding it's way to leak into your map. A letter to a sister living in Braeden. Newsposter telling of Builder witchhunts in the misty Glenham. A bold plan to clear St. Mathius of undead once for all. A wild rumor about some mad builder priest who tried to blow up the city.

 

But always remember to do justice for the thing you're referring to.

[Springheel]

So mappers! When planning your map, and your story, try to draw small links from your map to other FM's! They don't have to be emphasized or have any critical significance for your FM, just a brief mention that the surrounding world exists out there, not the void finding it's way to leak into your map.

 

Yes, this is a good idea that I heartily encourage as well. I'd much rather have the setting grow organically through mission development, rather than someone writing fiction about it.

[SneaksieDave]

There was internal(?) talk some time ago about developing three(?) different thief/rogue types, to give options and deeper interest to the world than just one Garrett clone. I quite liked this idea, and it leaves open possibilities for a pauper turned thief, the high society thief, the guild rebel, etc. As well as support for both male and female player characters. This would also leave open competition possibilities within missions, something like meeting one of the other characters and having to defeat him/her.

[nbohr1more]

I can't believe I am forwarding this discussion as I have always found the mood, atmosphere, and setting of the mod compelling enough to draw my attention to it. (Now I'm full-blown obsessed ), but perhaps I have so much evil in me that I can't resist playing Devil's Advocate.

 

The Dark Mod is an homage to Thief and most players and FM authors are well aware of the link. But the link has a down-side which is that it makes the mod's thematic scope essentially coast on the fumes of it's progenitor. Smart folk will get it, "If Thief is Bob Dylan, then The Dark Mod is Jimi Hendrix"... inspired by the style, themes, and mood but a new breed.

 

New players who have never played Thief are bound to find some aspects of this mod a little confusing and will puzzle over certain thematic obsessions and their motivation. They will not have the emotional investment that was developed via the lineage of playing Thief.

 

I suppose the easy solution is to make sure that all newcomers play Thief but that means that The Dark Mod is always reliant on Thief. While crediting Thief as the inspiration is one thing, being dependent on it is probably not ideal. Having one original tale that sets the backdrop for the universe would make the mod thematically self-sufficient.

 

Heck, Saint Lucia could possibly even be that point of origin if more story exposition were written about it.

 

Yes, FM authors are free to create their own universes that parallel the concepts of the mod so I suppose we could just say that when a specific FM author strikes a personal chord with a specific player then (for that player) they have found the true story for the mod. But Thief players can enjoy nearly all FM's because they can ignore the FM author's own universe and pretend that they are continuing the exploits of "the protagonist", they are living out an expansion of the original story whether the FM author intends it or not. This means that poorly storied FM's have less of a negative impact, the players are just adding the FM experience to the story in their mind.

 

If The Dark Mod also had a starting tale that players could appeal to for inspiration before embarking an FM play-through. Even FM's with the weakest story elements would be perceptually embellished by their own imagination.

 

I guess this is silliness. I am perfectly capable of enjoying the FM's without the hoopla of a novelization or movie that spells out a coherent plot-line.

 

In it's current form, the diverse FM output is kinda reminiscent of something like "The Twilight Zone", a bunch of rich self-contained stories that have a tenuous but tangible link to each other. (...and the "Stories from the Shadows" even sounds kinda like a late-night knock-off of the "Twilight Zone").

 

Maybe a small video clip that has a moody author reading something like:

 

"Hark,

It is the age of the Inventors and the dead of the night.

These are the tales of those who dare defy the iron fist.

These are the stories of the ghosts in the halls.

This my friends is the time of The Dark Mod"

[Baddcog]

 

So mappers! When planning your map, and your story, try to draw small links from your map to other FM's! They don't have to be emphasized or have any critical significance for your FM, just a brief mention that the surrounding world exists out there, not the void finding it's way to leak into your map. A letter to a sister living in Braeden. Newsposter telling of Builder witchhunts in the misty Glenham. A bold plan to clear St. Mathius of undead once for all. A wild rumor about some mad builder priest who tried to blow up the city.

 

 

 

we also had quite a bit of internal discussion about exactly this type of thing and my suggestion was for people to add their 'hotspots/characters' to a section of the wiki.

 

for example Sotha's mage guy (from Glenham) could be added with a small description of what he considers essential details. the last being he is now dead...and why.

then it would be easy for someone else to know:

 

name

job decript (whatever he did)

location

basic unchangeable lore of chracter.

 

then i could easily reference that page and say another mage was trying to steal a certian item, etc... but try not to impose changes on Sotha's lore, just add enough to tie it in...this could help build up alot of backstory of the city and make all missions feel a bit more tied together without need for a 'plot'.

 

==============

needless to say this conv is stemming from the fact that a few people want a campaign before they will even consider playing FM's which is quite stupid imo anyway. A campaign might give a certian feel or protagonist to the mod, but it won't matter to TDM as a whole anymore than to the original tfm's.

 

and those people will not be pleased unless the campaign matches the depth asnd breadth of T1-T3 anyway.

 

sure, it might be a bit easier for some authors to reuse/add/change that protagonist, or for some players to 'feel' the part.

 

but in the end each FM to be good has to stand on it's own anyway, and if done well would stand on it's own campaign or no.

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so i say if you have details, locations, characters, magic items that you want to be more of the overall tdm lore, then we need to get a wiki page going where people can add the info they want shared and everyone can use as ref without stepping on toes and screwing someone elses story up.

 

we already have a good deal of tdm lore on the wiki that really spells out the basics of the city, maybe if players read more of it they'd already have a better feel for tdm

[Sotha]

we also had quite a bit of internal discussion about exactly this type of thing and my suggestion was for people to add their 'hotspots/characters' to a section of the wiki.

And the wiki would serve as the 'official' background. A set of free plot elements and threads. A decent idea!

 

so i say if you have details, locations, characters, magic items that you want to be more of the overall tdm lore, then we need to get a wiki page going where people can add the info they want shared and everyone can use as ref without stepping on toes and screwing someone elses story up.

Sure, I've nothing against adding things to the wiki for others to use. But people should still be able to leave minor references to things without worrying of someone getting angry.

If someone is going to do some major referencing to someone's else creation, it should be checked that it's alright. I wouldn't be pleased if someone else made an FM where the hero vanquishes The Hag forever. I'd like to have Porter do it..

 

A summary:

• Minor referencing okay at all times. Example: mentioning the misty Glenham moor. Discussing about an earthquake near Glimmerheight Tower.
• Major referencing only from wiki or permission. Example: a full-length FM campaign about Lark Butternose's life and exploits. If it's in the wiki, it's free game.
• In both cases reference should deal the subject with respect and original concept. Example: The Hag is not going to be suddenly a nice girl giving roses to passersby (unless they're cursed.)

we already have a good deal of tdm lore on the wiki that really spells out the basics of the city, maybe if players read more of it they'd already have a better feel for tdm

 

Yeah, hey there is a map of the city, but it is really low res:

http://modetwo.net/d...:Bridgeport.gif

Is this intentional?

[nbohr1more]

I look forward to seeing some of your characters here:

Notable Thief Characters

 

Or even add The Hag to a new character class listing in the Notable Character heading for the Universe wiki

 

Universe

 

Sotha

 

 

For now, I will be playing all FM's as; myself, Thomas Porter, or some historical version of "V" (from V for Vendetta).

[Sotha]

There. Wrote a short description of Glenham is someone want's to make FM based there:

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Other_Cities_and_Towns

 

Could someone add a link to this article from the universe/Places-article? Thanks!

[Fidcal]

I'll add Edridge and Thaskbury Moor to that sometime. We should also make a hig res version of the map (if it is not too big for the wiki) and any FMs with a strong location should be added.

 

Edridge was going to be in the far north west of Bridgeport not far from the coast but I need to check myself.

 

Thaskbury Moor is a huge area possibly roamed by werebeasts. I've not located it yet but the small community of Thaskbury and Thaskbury House itself are definitely on the east side of the moors. The moors area is so large it could be a rich area to base other manor FMs (just keep off the east edge! )

[Springheel]

Having one original tale that sets the backdrop for the universe would make the mod thematically self-sufficient.

 

Yes, but who gets to write that tale, and what if some FM authors don't like the "theme" it sets?

 

In both cases reference should deal the subject with respect and original concept. Example: The Hag is not going to be suddenly a nice girl giving roses to passersby (unless they're cursed.)

 

I'm not sure how to avoid things like this.

 

Yeah, hey there is a map of the city, but it is really low res:

http://modetwo.net/d...:Bridgeport.gif

Is this intentional?

 

Yes, it was intentional (there's actually two different maps available). This topic has come up a few times in the past. We have always wanted to keep the city kind of sketchy--some vague sense of where it is and what it's like is fine, but getting really detailed becomes restrictive for mappers.

 

There's also a map of the western part of the empire: http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=The_World_at_Large

 

needless to say this conv is stemming from the fact that a few people want a campaign before they will even consider playing FM's which is quite stupid imo anyway

 

I agree. Let's not get carried away all of sudden just because of a few critics, who wouldn't be appeased by our efforts anyway.

[nbohr1more]

Yes, but who gets to write that tale...

 

This question boggles my mind.

 

I would imagine that you are the guy who has established much of the art direction and mood for the mod. I would have presumed it would be you Springheel. Unless you don't want to write it?

 

The fact that you are posing this question indicates to me that there may have been some conflict about the story that you and the team could never resolve.

 

I think that, given that you guys have such strong opinions, voting amongst yourselves is probably not the best option to resolve the conflicts. You should resort to games or competitions to see who's ideas take the fore. People are much more amenable to being the loser of a game than the loser of an vote. Something like, "Whoever completes these three FM's with the most loot under x minutes gets to write the story."

 

If you are sincerely saying that you don't want to trample on the wishes of the community, then a writing contest would be the best option but I really feel that you guys have earned the right say "this is the official story" or "these are the official stories" (if you want to expose multiple concurrent story lines).

 

If you like the contest idea, you could always stipulate that the winning entry would also be at the discretion of the team to revise.

 

...and what if some FM authors don't like the "theme" it sets?

 

The FM authors can always rebel against the theme and create their own FM's with a different flavor. I'll bet a lot of FM authors enjoy that. I'll bet that some of the motivation to make FM's for Thief was that the FM author wanted a "perfected" Thief experience that is tweaked to their own personal taste. So having an official story to play with or against is still motivating.

 

On a side note you are absolutely right, uncadonego's "Protagonist" thread at TTLG is hilarious. The idea the a bunch of random forum posters would ever come to a consensus is a terrific farce . I only participated because I like to read my own writing ... and I think the thread will help uncadonego decide who he want's as his protagonist. (And thus motivate him to get started on his TDM FM).

[Noisycricket]

I personally have felt very disconnected to the world in TDM. The story was one of the big things that kept me going in previous games. I think one thing that would be really helpful would be to insert as much artwork of the world at hand as possible into the main menus. For example, having the main menu artwork be an animated scenery of the city at night, with twinkling lights in windows, stars, etc. Something detailed, especially for the main menu. With an ambient track, like wind. Then have the equipment menu artwork show a different location, or series of locations, with more 2d animation. Im picturing something like the shops in TDS, but more interesting, like a large window predominantly in the view with a large ship outside of it, with torches here and there and of course ambient lighting (in 2d) inside. For the objectives menu, maybe make it the character's desk, with a candle and some other interesting trinkets nearby, like a piece of a lantern bot, a map or scroll, a compass, etc. How do this, easily? I'll have to get back to you... don't hold your breath. Theres a lot of budding concept artists out there and lots of art forums, i know theres someone out there that might do that, just for practice.

[Midnight]

That would be great for a large campaign, this is similar to what T2X did with their menu, but I don't have a problem with the menu as it is (except maybe the one thief character model that looks like it isn't posed properly).

 

I'd rather the world is created in the players mind through playing the FMs, having pictures of the city in the background of the menu would require a level of design consistency that is impossible to be carried through to individual fan missions from hundreds of different authors (which is why it would be more likely to benefit a campaign instead).

[Springheel]

I'd rather the world is created in the players mind through playing the FMs

 

+1

[Baddcog]

I think the idea of a shop view for the shop is cool, but you'd deffinately need all the menus to have similar images so it's consistant.

 

And I think good screenshots from in game would be perfect, no need for drawn art imo.

 

But like Midnight says, probably best for an unofficial campaign.

 

I really like the current menus and artwork, it all ties together nicely and has a very strong and consistant theme. I feel that it is as strong as thiefs menu system while being completely different. And it's instantly recognizable as 'Darkmod'

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the thing about story is that it really needs a campaign to build it up. Stuff on Wiki is great for people to browse and get an idea of setting, timeline, overall structure. Anyone can read it but I bet most players don't even go to the Wiki, it's more of a mapper resource.

 

To me without a campaign I just don't see that much need for a story, each FM has their own, and if you're not playing through the story it's not gonna have that much impact.