Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

Facebook Buys Oculus Rift For $2 Billion


Vae

Recommended Posts

Valve are alright. They certainly have helped with improving the profile of Linux among game developers so that's good to see, even if you don't use it (competition is always good).

 

I only have two real issues with Steam:

 

1. I don't like buying software that's vendor-locked, even with Steam's reasonably balanced DRM. I don't expect Valve to disappear anytime soon, but it's very unsettling to me the concept of buying games that require authentication against a third party every time you want to play. It means you're more invested in Valve's ecosystem than you might want to be, and if Valve change their terms in a way that you don't approve, it's even harder to leave since you still need to use Steam (cracks notwithstanding). With GOG on the other hand, you buy the games, download them and can do what you like with them, GOG be damned. It's much more freeing an experience and instills greater confidence that YOU are in control over the software you purchased, not someone else.

 

2. Moreso to do with Valve, but there's a shitload of Valve/Steam fanboys out there. It makes it very difficult to have a discussion about any deficiencies or issues one might have with Steam or Valve, because no matter how reasonable or sensible or innocent you present your concerns, the fanboys take it very personally and defend Valve to the hilt, and often not in a particularly polite way. It makes me not want to talk about it in the first place and so I don't bother anymore, except for this thread because people here seem a lot nicer than in other places. :wub:

 

I still think Valve are overall a positive for the gaming world - I just wish they pushed more publicly for DRM-free games. At least we have options like GOG and the Humble Bundles I suppose; keeps everyone happy.

Edited by At0mic
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's proven otherwise on countless occasions.

 

Yeah, like when? Where is HL3? What caused the delay of HL2 that killed Troika off? Why are Valve only releasing pimped up mods by buying out their teams instead of actually creating a game themselves? Why have the leaders of these teams left Valve again in the meantime although their flat company architecture is supposed to be so great?

 

Besides, they originally made Steam so that they could patch Counter Strike without days-long disruption to their service, not because they're evil masterminds who live only to mildly inconvenience you.

 

You really believe that? Like the whole online distribution is only a side effect of patching? Don't make me laugh! Newell is not dumb, he got the headstart that made Steam a success by using Counter-Strike. EA is doing the same right now with Battlefield: take a blockbuster and use it to force your system on people! Also the whole Valve-supports-Linux stuff was only done to lay the ground work for their Steamboxes. Maybe you don't know, but it pretty much broke a lot of HL2 mods that way and Valve didn't care at all!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Online distribution was inevitable. It's like an aircraft carrier and mods were a gnat's sneeze to stop it.

 

Everybody knows HL3 has been in development hell. Saying it's a cynical calculated strategy is like saying companies plan on bankruptcy to avoid paying their debts. Development hell is development hell. It's repulsive and agonizing for everybody. And if you really knew the silver bullet solution to avoid it that you seem to imply Newell is cynically not doing (because the last thing they want to do is sell more games), you'd be a billionaire right now and probably not hobnobbing with us on this forum.

 

Turnover is high throughout the entire industry. It's one of the worst fields to work in if you want a stable life. Arkane is the only studio I can think offhand where anybody is happy being there, and I'm happily surprised they're still around.

 

As for them pimping up indie mods... This is a bad thing? They picked up Blackcat games, the makers of Thievery & Alien Swarm from our own community. As I recall, most people around here were happy for their success.

 

Edit: Wait, isn't the topic the Oculus buy? We're not even talking about Valve. Sorry, I should have Kvorning's advice...

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, like when?

 

Charity work, game development courses, educational funding, continual patchwork, crazy Kickstarter pledges, humble bundle donations and an AMA in a pear tree.

 

Where is HL3?

 

They've already admitted on several occasions they have no idea what they're doing with it. They're not pretending that it's still coming or that they've even started it; they're just thoroughly afraid that they won't live up to all the hype people have built up for it. I for one don't care about HL3 anyway. I'm glad they're working on L4D3 instead.

 

What caused the delay of HL2 that killed Troika off?

 

Wha? They closed down because their spiritual successor to Fallout couldn't convince any publishers to fund them. It could have been to do with messing up VtM:BL or just not having a good enough pitch, but the delay to HL2 did nothing but give them more time to patch VtM. Release delays happen to every other game just due to the nature of trying to predict when you'll be done. Acting like a delay is a personal affront is the kind of entitled attitude I see all over community hubs of major games, with people asking for refunds because it came out late or they're too bad at it to get anywhere and acting like it's the fault of the devs.

 

Why have the leaders of these teams left Valve again in the meantime although their flat company architecture is supposed to be so great?

 

Because some were being assholes, be it the firers or the fired, as both sides were pointing fingers. I've no interest in the individual members, really, because people are people and people are idiots.

 

You really believe that?

 

uh-yeah-office-space.gif?w=500

No need to be rude about it either. I don't know any more about their early 2000 motives than you do, but I tend to go with the one with more evidence and less paranoia. People were complaining day in day out about the downtime of Valve servers while they were performing maintenance. People got madder and madder and Valve became more and more aware until they eventually released Steam so they could do it with a new delivery system. The release coincided with the height of forum nerd rage and was thoroughly ghetto and just a delivery system. HL2 was the first ever game to properly force a player to get Steam, and either slightly before or after (I forget) that in 2004 was when Darwinia first appeared for purchase. Looking at the evidence I'd surmise that Valve had their eyes set on world domination as much as Zuckerberg did when he and a few friends made a communication platform for his campus' intranet.

 

take a blockbuster and use it to force your system on people

 

That's expressed radically in Valve's case but accurately with Battlefield. It's not unheard of to create your own demand, given that supply and demand is the crux of every economy, but this isn't exactly injecting you with a deadly virus and selling you the antidote. If you bought Battlefield full price I feel sorry for you Son, I got 99 problems and Origin ain't one.

 

Maybe you don't know, but it pretty much broke a lot of HL2 mods that way and Valve didn't care at all!

 

I've never really bothered with HL2 mods, rather went for the custom gamemodes in HL2DM and CSS. I played a whole ton of Kreedz Climbing at least and, well, it's still playable today. I don't see how introducing support for something else breaks existing mods on other platforms, and if they managed that it was pretty dumb. I doubt you'd care much if you were rolling in cash and nth party mods got banged up in exchange for gaining a new customer base. I know I wouldn't, at least not enough to fix it myself.

Edited by Airship Ballet
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everybody knows HL3 has been in development hell. Saying it's a cynical calculated strategy is like saying companies plan on bankruptcy to avoid paying their debts

 

Of course it's no strategy, but it shows that all Gabe Newell and Valve care about right now is Steam. Not games. For that they release the occasional pimped mod...

 

Edit: Wait, isn't the topic the Oculus buy? We're not even talking about Valve. Sorry, I should have Kvorning's advice...

 

Yeah, I know. But it's somehow connected because Facebook bought OR to stay "top" like Valve announced Steamboxes. Both only want to dominate the market and have long forgotten what they all started about.

Edited by wesp5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Airship Ballet', I just can't quote your badly formatted posting, so here comes my reply out of my head.

 

Valve doing charity work and so on - Zuckerberg does the same only much more.

 

HL2 delay didn't kill Troika off - Besides that Troika had to restart Bloodlines over and over because the Source engine wasn't finished as Newell only cared about Steam at the time, there was also a clause in their contract that Bloodlines mustn't be released before HL2. So however far Troika was with the game, they couldn't release it as long as HL2 was delayed, so they tried their Fallout 3 pitch instead on working on a game that had to sit on the shelf anyway. Bloodlines came out the same day as HL2, stupid decicion or the last attempt to make some needed money as soon as possible?

 

Steam only created for patching - I never played Counter-Strike much, but I had never the impression patching was too slow in those days. You admit that EA is doing the same thing right now, but Valve didn't? They did it with CS and HL2!

 

Before this escalatates, I just wanted to say that in my humble opinion Valve is as much a "good" guy as Facebook :).

Edited by wesp5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My formatting's like that on big posts because otherwise the quote boxes would make the post a page long, ain't nobody got time for that. It's perfectly simple to quote if you just copy/paste it and use nameless quote tags.

 

the Source engine wasn't finished as Newell only cared about Steam at the time

 

That's a pretty bold claim, seems like fallacious thinking to me: "Source was being worked on, so was Steam, Steam got big first therefore Source was unimportant". The point still stands that Steam was in beta for a long time, was barely advertised and was only really known in the circles who played Counter Strike. It was niche as anything, and expected to fail until long after HL2 had been released.

 

 

they tried their Fallout 3 pitch instead on working on a game that had to sit on the shelf anyway

 

Not quite. It was already finished; the only people who suffered were Activision.

 

 

Bloodlines came out the same day as HL2, stupid decicion or the last attempt to make some needed money as soon as possible?

 

Well, no, because it had already been made. That was Activision making good on the ability to publish it the moment they could, nothing to do with Troika.

 

 

I never played Counter-Strike much, but I had never the impression patching was too slow in those days.

 

Fair enough, but it was. The servers would go down for a day or two when big updates were rolled out. Obviously big then and big now are two completely different things, hence it being such a big deal.

 

 

You admit that EA is doing the same thing right now, but Valve didn't? They did it with CS and HL2!

 

Valve and EA are two completely, completely different companies. Valve made their money early and have been gaining frankly had and passed up the opportunity to make a monopoly. They made it to where they are now through simple, transparent, honest business movements that you can follow right back to its inception. EA is the polar opposite. There's no comparison, other than Valve made a unique move in starting a new branch of the industry and now EA and others are trying to follow suit. EA is underhanded and enforces pure scumbag tactics that drooling idiots fall for again and again, only starting the thing because they saw how successful Valve was.

 

I just wanted to say that in my humble opinion Valve is as much a "good" guy as Facebook

 

You could do with being a bit more humble about it, really, rather than acting all facetious.

Edited by Airship Ballet
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure the reason Bloodlines came out on the same day as Half-Life 2 is that Valve didn't want anyone releasing a Source-powered game before Valve did with their own flagship game, so as part of the agreement to license the engine, Troika/Activision had to hold off release until at least when Half-Life 2 was released (which obviously was the same day, even though Bloodlines was finished a while beforehand). Bit of a shame it had to be like that; but that was the licensing agreement (if you believe the story).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mhmm. I see that kind of talking all over the internet though. It's so, so easy for people to get carried away when they're typing and end up with some weird tinfoil hat conspiracy. Somehow people with no experience of the game industry's structure suddenly know how it works inside out and have it on good authority that one company--that they've never been a part of--is on a plot for world domination. Like it's a bad thing for a company to want to make money and do better than other companies, and they should feel bad for ever striving to outdo others and bolster their own success.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is got way off-topic, but, wesp5, could you find that interview with Tim Cain about Activision 'freezing' final build of VtMB? Can't seem to find it and don't even remember how it looked like(some scanned page?). I bet you remember better.

 

But yeah, I don't see how comparing Valve to Facebook is appropriate. Valve's finances aren't based on advertising and collecting personal data. So in context of VR it's not much of a dilemma of who I would trust more.

Edited by chedap
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is got way off-topic, but, wesp5, could you find that interview with Tim Cain about Activision 'freezing' final build of VtMB?

 

Sorry, but I don't know about that interview. I have only one with Boyarsky in which he tries to avoid the contract question:

 

Terra-Arcanum: The Internet abounds with rumors of Half-Life 2 delays. Allegedly, there is a clause in the contract that Bloodlines can only be released after HL2. Is this true? ... Leonard Boyarsky: We aren't at liberty to reveal details of Activision's contract with Valve.

 

But Brian Mitsoda said in an interview with Grupo: In the end, there was only so much we could do or were allowed to do and it was taken out of our hands.

 

Valve's finances aren't based on advertising and collecting personal data.

 

But right now Valve's finances are based solely on the fact that Steam keeps it's distribution dominance, because they earn from almost every title downloaded from there. They surely couldn't survive from the few mods they released on their own! Also what really made me start the rant is the fact that Facebook is regarded as evil, I agree of course, but Valve is regarded as good, for which I see little reason. They collect a lot of data too, just check their hardware surveys, and have a DRM client running always in the background. GOG looks much better as a distribution platform to me...

Edited by wesp5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Facebook has done an awful lot more than run hardware surveys, I think that goes without saying. Nobody's contesting that it's no fun having Steam DRM, but until GOG grows a lot both in terms of catalogue and infrastructure I just use it to easily play old games that require a ton of setup otherwise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, but I don't know about that interview.
Here, found it (on my own hard drive, no less).

 

Edit: checked if it's shopped, just in case. It isn't, here's the source.

 

but Valve is regarded as good, for which I see little reason
Oh, sure, they aren't flawless and other than them being somewhat bloated I have my own grudges (you probably don't have to deal with their various regional restrictions). Comparatively though, they still are about as good as it gets, and unfortunately I think if GOG had to deal with big international releases alongside retail launch days, they'd either die or become as 'flawed' as Steam. Edited by chedap
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Edit: checked if it's shopped, just in case. It isn't, here's the source.

 

Very interesting read, it's exactly as I suspected all along, only now I have the prove :)! It also explains why my patch was able to restore so many unfinished things to Bloodlines...

 

Comparatively though, they still are about as good as it gets...

 

I don't see it that way, Newell has already be caught lying his head off, I wouldn't be surprised if other things happen. Maybe they should split Valve into one company that maintains Steam and another that actually makes games ;)!

Edited by wesp5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeez, that second article was cringe material, so pretentious to read. Still, I don't think a slight delay is any reason to mistrust Valve in general. Nobody in their right mind would trust any big business' owner to watch their house for the weekend, but it's been said that Valve is about as good as it gets. I find it difficult to see why you would consider Facebook and Valve equally shady. The latter lied about the release date of a game because he didn't want to admit he'd planned the project poorly and they'd struggle to get it out on time. Look at the list of creepy borderline illegal bullshit Facebook has pulled and really, they're not equals, at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was looking around for OR articles and I found an article on a new Sony VR headset that is also coming out. I hadn't heard about this before and thought OR was the only one.

 

Seeing how since they're both in the same business now, Sony has mASSIVe design and production power. They can build everything themselves. Custom hardware, software, displays, etc.

 

OR doesn't even come close to being able to do all these things alone, and they have put everything in to this push to get their product to market and make it a great product. It seems like with this impending Sony product that if Sony beats them to market, they will basically steal OR's thunder with the mass market and capitalize off of it big time. I at least would bet Sony is thinking that.

 

I'd imagine that OR teamed with FB just so they wouldn't get buried by Sony, and that would allow them to develop their product further, use larger custom display tech (that the PS4 can't run -1920x1080) etc.

 

A 3840x1080 custom OLED display would be soo hottness.

 

If OR teamed with FB for these reasons, I don't have any issues with it.

Edited by Lux
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The latter lied about the release date of a game because he didn't want to admit he'd planned the project poorly and they'd struggle to get it out on time.

 

For me it's not only about the lies as such, but about the background. If you read that article you should have recognized that HL2 was delayed because Newell only cared about Steam. The same is happening right now. Don't tell me that Valve couldn't have done a good HL2:EP3! Besides that the whole episode business was another big promise broken, they just have other priorities now which I think is the main lie behind Valve. They show the front of the friendly game developer while they are really a digital distributer trying to dominate the PC market. Facebook does something similar, it plays the friendly social network on the front and spies on everything the members are doing to target advertisement in the back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recent Status Updates

    • Ansome

      Turns out my 15th anniversary mission idea has already been done once or twice before! I've been beaten to the punch once again, but I suppose that's to be expected when there's over 170 FMs out there, eh? I'm not complaining though, I love learning new tricks and taking inspiration from past FMs. Best of luck on your own fan missions!
      · 4 replies
    • The Black Arrow

      I wanna play Doom 3, but fhDoom has much better features than dhewm3, yet fhDoom is old, outdated and probably not supported. Damn!
      Makes me think that TDM engine for Doom 3 itself would actually be perfect.
      · 6 replies
    • Petike the Taffer

      Maybe a bit of advice ? In the FM series I'm preparing, the two main characters have the given names Toby and Agnes (it's the protagonist and deuteragonist, respectively), I've been toying with the idea of giving them family names as well, since many of the FM series have named protagonists who have surnames. Toby's from a family who were usually farriers, though he eventually wound up working as a cobbler (this serves as a daylight "front" for his night time thieving). Would it make sense if the man's popularly accepted family name was Farrier ? It's an existing, though less common English surname, and it directly refers to the profession practiced by his relatives. Your suggestions ?
      · 9 replies
    • nbohr1more

      Looks like the "Reverse April Fools" releases were too well hidden. Darkfate still hasn't acknowledge all the new releases. Did you play any of the new April Fools missions?
      · 5 replies
    • The Black Arrow

      Hope everyone has the blessing of undying motivation for "The Dark Mod 15th Anniversary Contest". Can't wait to see the many magnificent missions you all may have planned. Good luck, with an Ace!
      · 0 replies
×
×
  • Create New...