Nameless objects... a missed opportunity

[snatcher]

On 1/9/2025 at 9:28 PM, Frost_Salamander said:

I feel for you here, [...]

It's fine, this topic serves different purposes. Thanks for your comments.

On 1/9/2025 at 9:28 PM, Frost_Salamander said:

As a mapper I would want just a single spawnarg to set if I want a name displayed.  Preferably a new one like 'display_name'.

We already have 'shouldered_name' and I propose 'grabbed_name'.

On 1/9/2025 at 9:28 PM, Frost_Salamander said:

I'm not sure I would want all objects to be named by default.  I don't see the need for it and maybe this change is what's putting others off. Ideally existing maps wouldn't change.

I can help you make up your mind. Find attached to this post version 1.3 of the Nameless Objects Mod. Download it an place it in your root TDM folder. You need, in addition, Core Essentials, which is available in the TDM Modpack. Just grab the relevant pk4 and place it along with the Nameless Objects mod:

• x_modpack46_core_essentials.pk4
• z_nameless_objects_mod_v1.3.pk4

Launch a mission (in example Business As Usual) and grab some junk. Do names bother you?

Delete both pk4 once you are done.

EDIT - The latest version can be found in the opening post.

 

Edited February 6 by snatcher

[snatcher]

Here is version 1.4, almost final.

I am not longer using any def. Everything is done on the fly with a single script.

The script can take up to a minute to complete on large missions. Few items are scanned on each frame and the impact on gameplay performance is, dare I say, zero.

Here is the result in Iris:

If anything, because of the all the string literals, the script memory usage raises considerably, but we still are under 50%.

Again, in Iris:

Since there is little interest in the initiative for the core game it will be integrated in the next version of the TDM Modpack.

EDIT - The latest version can be found in the opening post.

 

Edited February 6 by snatcher

[snatcher]

This is no longer a proof of concept - I am taking it seriously now!

The Lieutenant 2: High Expectations

[datiswous]

I think I just tested this the first time. Pretty awesome!. It seems to work on all missions?

The only thing is: This also activates other things (part of core essentials), like for example the loot grab animation. I don't like it and so was wondering how to remove that, because the nameless objects, I think I like to keep it activated always.

Why does this need the whole core essentials package? I guess maybe core essentials was made before 2.11 and therefore needed to be all in one pk4?

 

Edited January 30 by datiswous

[snatcher]

19 hours ago, datiswous said:

[...] It seems to work on all missions?

It does! Actually... I was naming objects based on the name of the def but I started looking at custom objects in mission and noticed sometimes mappers keep the definition but change the model of the entity. I have now changed strategy and I now check (for the most part) the name of the model. Not only naming is more reliable and accurate now but it allows me to name (most) custom objects created by mappers. Work in progress.

There still are edge cases though that deserve attention and a decision. In example model "apple.lwo" would be named as "Apple" (I try not to take extensions into account) but, what if a mapper use "applepie.lwo" as the name of his/her model? The pie would be called "Apple"

I'll do my best.

19 hours ago, datiswous said:

Why does this need the whole core essentials package? I guess maybe core essentials was made before 2.11 and therefore needed to be all in one pk4?

I built the functionality of displaying names of bodies (on grab), inventory items (on drop), objects (on grab)... in Core Essentials. The Modpack is continuously evolving and I simply don't want to deal with duplicated code.

[datiswous]

Yeah I saw some errors in naming here and there. I think lanterns in Iris are called candles for example.

[snatcher]

On 1/31/2025 at 10:55 AM, datiswous said:

Yeah I saw some errors in naming here and there. I think lanterns in Iris are called candles for example.

Here is v1.5.

This version uses the "new strategy" and it is faster and way more reliable than before. Those lanterns should be properly named now.

This version does not include items modified or created by mappers. I am currently scanning missions and naming custom objects (half way there with great results!).

EDIT - The latest version can be found in the opening post.

 

Edited February 6 by snatcher

[snatcher]

I am no culinary expert but this does not look like a cake to me

[snatcher]

I changed my mind and I am abandoning this.

I have removed the downloads from the different posts and I have updated the opening post which now includes v1.6. This new version includes custom items by mappers.

If anybody reports anything relevant I may update the mod but otherwise this is the end of this road.

Cheers!

[wesp5]

5 minutes ago, snatcher said:

I changed my mind and I am abandoning this.

Is this because of the cake/bread issue and maybe others that are similar?

[snatcher]

I believe the cake/bread issue is a one-off.

I am confident 99+% of the objects get the right name but I cannot tell for the remaining %.

The mod, while functional, is a waste of resources. This initiative wasn't supposed to go like this.

[wesp5]

1 hour ago, snatcher said:

The mod, while functional, is a waste of resources. This initiative wasn't supposed to go like this.

Do you mean you waste your time or something in the mod itself ;)?

[snatcher]

Sorry, I am not sure I understand your question.

I don't feel like I wasted my time and while the mod seems to work it is not what I set out to do and I am not satisfied and I am no longer interested. Nothing else.

[wesp5]

9 hours ago, snatcher said:

Sorry, I am not sure I understand your question.

I meant are the "waste of resources" yours or those of the game. Like would a system like that slow the game down because everything is labeled in realtime? And what did you really set up to do? I always thought it might be a nice addition to your modpack!

[datiswous]

I think he means that him working on such a mod is a waste of recources knowing it is not satisfying it's intended goal. The goal was to have it integrated inside tdm, but nobody on the team and elsewhere seems to care (enough).

Edited February 7 by datiswous

[snatcher]

My proposal to the Team was to internally add names to all objects:

entityDef atdm:moveable_bones_skull
{
    "inherit"                    "atdm:moveable_bones_base"
    "editor_displayFolder"        "Moveables/Graveyard"
    "model"                        "models/darkmod/graveyard/bones/skull.lwo"
    "mass"                        "3"
    "snd_bounce"                "tdm_impact_largeclaypot_01"
    "item_name"                    "Skull"
}

Why? It doesn't matter. This has no impact on the game but it could allow for who-knows-what in the future.

A use-case is to display item names onscreen when you grab one. If anything, to let players know in some situations if an item is selected and which item it is. I never asked this to feature in the game but I understand the way I presented the initiative could have been perceived differently.

4 hours ago, wesp5 said:

[...] would a system like that slow the game down because everything is labeled in realtime?

No, it only takes more memory.

As explained by @stgatilov string literals (anything between quotes) take a small but considerable chunk of (scripting) memory. The more "" there are the more memory is required. My mod makes heavy use of string literals and while we are within safe margins the mod increases (scripting) memory usage by around 15%, hence the "waste of resources", which are better spent elsewhere.

4 hours ago, wesp5 said:

[...] I always thought it might be a nice addition to your modpack!

And here it remains if anyone wants to use it.

Edited February 7 by snatcher

[datiswous]

10 minutes ago, snatcher said:

the mod increases memory usage by around 15%, hence the "waste of resources", which are better spent elsewhere

I'm sorry. I see I got this wrong. I'll try not to fill in the answers for others next time.

[snatcher]

Absolutely fine by me datiswous!

[MirceaKitsune]

I also support adding default names to all objects, by giving each movable entity a default "inv_name". I don't see how this should break anything, if an existing FM sets its own name on an inherited entity that has priority and will work the same way. As far as using more memory goes, an extra string should only be a few bytes... on an engine that loads GB's worth of assets and a time when nearly every computer with TDM on it is expected to have at least 16 GB of RAM

[snatcher]

10 hours ago, MirceaKitsune said:

[...] As far as using more memory goes, an extra string should only be a few bytes... on an engine that loads GB's worth of assets and a time when nearly every computer with TDM on it is expected to have at least 16 GB of RAM

There sure is a hard limit (hardware) but for scripts there's also a soft limit set by the engine.

For 2.12 @stgatilov doubled it. There's some info in the console:

 

[stgatilov]

23 hours ago, snatcher said:

As explained by @stgatilov string literals (anything between quotes) take a small but considerable chunk of (scripting) memory. The more "" there are the more memory is required. My mod makes heavy use of string literals and while we are within safe margins the mod increases (scripting) memory usage by around 15%, hence the "waste of resources", which are better spent elsewhere.

I think only strings inside .script files are counted towards this memory limit, because they are stored in script program.
Entity spawnargs are stored outside scripting system, then don't count towards the limit.

In particular, "editor spawnargs" take a lot of memory, and nothing fails because of it.
Actually, one of the greatest improvements in savefile size was to not save editor spawnargs in iot.