Life in the US

[Maximius]

This is how things work here in the US when you get sick:

 

I have recently had to leave work due to post traumatic stress syndrome, a result of my robbery and the fact that I worked in dangerous neighborhoods. I wanted to take Family Medical Leave and I got the forms. I was told that they had to be back in fifteen days, but I told my human resources manager that the therapist Im seeing would not be able to get them back in that period of time.

 

Today, Ive been informed that I am ineligible for the Family Medical leave because I missed the paperwork deadline. Despite the fact that my treatment made returning the paperwork impossible, I am ineligible for paid leave. Besides, the paid medical leave was only one quarter my original pay. Thats right, when you get sick, you can get as little as a quarter of your original paycheck while on leave. But, due to utter circumstance, I get nothing.

 

So now we have to live on one salary. Im going to try to see about unemployment money while I job hunt but Im not betting on getting anything. God, I hate this fucking country, this festering shit pool. What other advanced nation throws their sick onto the streets? It makes no sense from the perspective of maintaining healthy, productive workers, whats the possible point? There is none, its just the usual fuck job, companies trying to get away with the minimum that the already deficient laws proscribe, no safety net to turn to, just the prospect of sink or swim. A nation of starving rats piled one atop another, scrabbling and clawing. Im going to take this to the community legal service people to see if they can find a loophole but Im betting Im screwed.

[Dram]

I feel for you man, I hope it turns out to your benefit

[demagogue]

Yeah, our whole healthcare system is pretty archaic from the bottom-up. I don't think it has much longer to limp along before people really start clamoring for change. Coverage has too many gaps that too many people can fall through, quality is patchy even when you are covered, and costs are STILL outrageous! There really isn't a good excuse with the experience of other countries working so well.

Edited May 8, 2007 by demagogue

[Komag]

A good idea is to have 3 months of living expenses saved at all times. We can all do this if it is a priority to us. This situation is the perfect example of when it would be the most useful.

 

The generally advised percentage of one's pay to save/invest is 15%, but 20% or 25% is better. After three months expenses are saved up, then start diverting those funds into real retirement and other investment accounts. In just a few years you'll find yourself feeling FAR more secure and able to handle problems that come along with a lot less stress and worry.

 

Budgeting to be able to save that much is said to be hard at first, but then it should get very easy once you develop a system/habit. It's should be doable on any income, although if you currently are used to living at or beyond your means then the real difficulty is more personal, getting used to living below your means.

[SneaksieDave]

I won't even go into the joke that is healthcare here. The whole country collectively shakes its head in disgust and suffers, and yet nothing changes. It's become an all too common bitter topic of commiseration over water coolers.

 

Maximius, I'm not sure, but I have to guess that living inside the city is costly, isn't it? You've mentioned before that you're working on getting out. Well, if it really is cheaper outside the city (in some areas - I'm thinking a small rental place in a suburb or something), this might be exactly the opportunity to cut the chains and move out! Leave that shit behind. I know people in Newark who hate the city, yet they stay and pay a lot to live there; why? Get the hell out and live in a better area for cheaper.

 

I lack the words to describe how much I loathe that type of city.

[Maximius]

I won't even go into the joke that is healthcare here. The whole country collectively shakes its head in disgust and suffers, and yet nothing changes. It's become an all too common bitter topic of commiseration over water coolers.

 

Maximius, I'm not sure, but I have to guess that living inside the city is costly, isn't it? You've mentioned before that you're working on getting out. Well, if it really is cheaper outside the city (in some areas - I'm thinking a small rental place in a suburb or something), this might be exactly the opportunity to cut the chains and move out! Leave that shit behind. I know people in Newark who hate the city, yet they stay and pay a lot to live there; why? Get the hell out and live in a better area for cheaper.

 

I lack the words to describe how much I loathe that type of city.

 

 

We actually live pretty cheap for the city, though generally you would be correct. We are ready to move but we dont own a car and have no desire to have to do so. Her job moves to East Falls (a nearby suburg) in a week or so, we are looking there, not perfect but safer than where we are right now. But with this god damned kick in the teeth thats only going to be harder to do. But we have to so we will.

 

Komag, Im sorry but its not that simple. The personal responsibility schtick has worn through. I have roughly that much money set aside in fact. It was for another class this semester, but thats out of the question. Its survival money now and I hope its enough to carry me until I find something else. To say one should save up this or that amount is to discount life coming along and taking it away in one swoop. It happens all the time, but we simply mumble "Shoulda saved more." and continue to trudge along like good field hands. No, we should have real healthcare and sick leave laws, like civilized nations do. Instead, we have a insanities like fifteen day cutoffs for paperwork that can help but take three weeks to fill out, medical leave that pays a quarter of your paycheck. I would be financially more secure if I got fired, I could get at least 60 percent.

 

And if saving up three months salary alone for a possible sick leave is supposed to be the standard, we as a nation are in deep shit. Our savings rates are negative, personal debt is at historic highs, we are a constantly unfolding disaster in progress when it comes to personal finance. Most people are several years in debt, let alone three months ahead.

[sparhawk]

A good idea is to have 3 months of living expenses saved at all times. We can all do this if it is a priority to us. This situation is the perfect example of when it would be the most useful.

 

I don't know about you, but I'm not even able to save up 1% consistently for such cases. Everytime I manage to put something aside, something happens that needs to be paid, and everythig that I have is gone. Last time my washingmachine broke and we have to replace it, some payment from kindergarten has to be returned, because the fucking clerk gave us a wrong information and now we have to pay back fee for 1.5 years and in court we couldn't proove the wrong information. And such thigns happens quite often. If you live alone it's easier a little bit, but not much.

[OrbWeaver]

I think one of the problems is that many Americans have bought into the "Socialism == evil Communist Stalinist totalitarianism" propaganda peddled by the capitalists (who obviously don't want to have to pay their employees sick leave because it might jeopardise the CEO's next yacht), so any attempt to reform the healthcare system is likely to meet with rejection.

[oDDity]

I've always seen the US as a huge pile of shit with a molecule thick layer of shiny gold plating over it. It's all completely vacuous gloss - vacuous gloss that they've been trying to force feed the rest of the world for the last 50 years, and mostly succeeding as well, that's the criminal element here.

I blame the current vacuous, puerile cultural abyss we're in, an all time low, entirely on the USA.

However, all the desperate wannabes from around the world who would kill to get US citizenship see the US as a mecca, since they can only see the shiny gold plating from where they are.

I suppose there's a good 20% of the US that great, so if they could just gather up their belongings, they'd be welcome to come back to Europe, and then we can just nuke the rest.

[Maximius]

@Orb: Im reading a book right now called "the way we never were", its about myths about the US family. One of the points that the author stresses and I found interesting was how even the language to speak of things in a collective sense has atrophied in this country. We literally lack a robust set of concepts and words in our everyday lives to effectively discuss ideas such as the role of the state, the need for collective action, the public good or a social safety net. We tend to view things as the fault of individuals and their personal choices, generally failing to develop a social context around them. This is how people here in Philly can actually make the argument that its the families of the killers that are primarily to blame for their violence, that if only Mom and Dad were to crack down the problem would dry up. As if Mom and Dad weren't living hand to mouth, as if a kid with a gun is going to stop to listen to Mom or Dad lecture them. As if we didn't live in a culture that glorifies violent solutions and the idea that might makes right.

 

A few voices in the mainstream point to the dire unemployment in these communities, the deep rooted illiteracy, the rotting schools, the crappy public services, the empty lots and collapsed houses filled with vermin, the trash a foot deep on some streets when the wind collects it in a corner, but theres little money for those problems, what with heavily reduced social spending on all levels of government, tax breaks for the 1 percentile, and a never ending war where billions are spent, or lost, merely trying to bribe local governments and leaders to play ball.

 

If anyone is still dying to get US citizenship out there, you can have mine. Im sure there are wonderful places and people here, don't mind all my bombast to the contrary, but ultimately this place sucks, unless you happened to be born atop the heap of rats. Then its a good time, you can spend and do almost as you please. Unlike their counterparts in other industrialized nations, many of the citizens here worship those with the wealth and power. Instead of hating them as their mortal enemies, we are taught that they are our natural leaders, that their position in society is a product of their own great work, and that if you work hard enough, you too may someday get to enjoy such luxury. And the whole sorry lie works when you can provide some level of comfort, keep a fat and dumb middle class to absorb social tremors from below, but now that protection is disappearing.

 

So what comes next, given that something will have to give way at some point (which is not guaranteed)? Revolution or reform or Reich. Reforming this system would be next to impossible as it currently stands in my inexpert opinion, the foxes are in the henhouse and selling eggs, the whole political system absolutely depends on huge amounts of private money, the corporate/government/educational/military circles are tighter and more intertwined than at any other time in history, and the government is piled high with debts and lethargy. Revolution (a socialistic/progressive one) here would also be wildly problematic, its a corrupt rotting beast but its still got a powerful domestic police state, a big military and lots of nukes and worst of all a fairly docile and compliant citizenry still waiting for the USS AMERICAN DREAM to pull up to their dock with Jesus at the helm and ESPN on all the monitors. So, again given some sort of collapse, economic, environmental, political, I see Reich, US fascism, developing. Illiterate in a number of ways, irrational and superstitious, deeply nationalistic, this population seems ripe for a deep reactionary shift. I hope to fuck Im a Canadian by then, at least.

[Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat]

I wonder how safe it'll be for us, sharing the largest unprotected border with the 2nd reich. with the manifest destiny and all.. I actually think it's alright if you're one of the people living in new england or mid northern states, idaho, utah, dakota.

Edited May 8, 2007 by Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat

[Maximius]

I wonder how safe it'll be for us, sharing the largest unprotected border with the 2nd reich.

 

 

Good point.

[OrbWeaver]

As if Mom and Dad weren't living hand to mouth, as if a kid with a gun is going to stop to listen to Mom or Dad lecture them. As if we didn't live in a culture that glorifies violent solutions and the idea that might makes right.

 

It would be better if Mom and Dad just didn't have the kid in the first place. Rather than clinging to their stupid notions of "sacred life", the state should be actively encouraging and subsidising abortions in order to remove potential future criminal elements from the pool.

[sparhawk]

So you mean that only rich people should have kids?

[OrbWeaver]

No, I mean that only people with the means and wherewithal to raise a child properly should have kids. Not being rich should not be a disqualifier, but being a violent crack addict most certainly should be.

[Springheel]

I think the "right" to have children is one of the biggest problems in industrialized nations. Having children is too easy, and idiots are doing it over and over again, generally creating future problems for the rest of us to deal with. I've always believed in the idea of some kind of forced chemical castration, and that you have to apply for the antidote when you want to have children, by demonstrating that you're actually competent to raise a child. We force people to apply for a license to drive a car because they can hurt or injure someone else, but we let them barely literate peopel have sixteen kids without blinking an eye.

[Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat]

Limitations on children would cause only the rich to have them. A better solution is eugenics.

[OrbWeaver]

Limitations on children would cause only the rich to have them.

 

That's why I'm not suggesting limitations. I'm suggesting that the abortion of unwanted children should be cheaper and easier, not mandatory. Obviously this first requires getting rid of the superstitious psychotics and their useless ideas about morality.

 

A better solution is eugenics.

 

In theory, yes, however I would never trust any existing administration to implement such a solution correctly.

[Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat]

"Breeding will happen as with the most logical race in the galaxy, the vulcans. Breeding will be once a year, for most of you it means much less breeding, for me - much much more." comic book guy in the episode of the simpsons where the mayor disappeared and the mensa club tried to improve Springfield but got corrupted by power.

[Springheel]

Limitations on children would cause only the rich to have them.

 

The limitations don't have to be based on money, though that should be a factor--if you can't afford a place to live, you shouldn't be allowed to have children until you can.

 

We force people to go through background checks, reference checks, etc, for adopting children. I don't think there's any *moral* reason not to do the same for conceiving one in the first place (admittedly, there are a crapload of *practical* problems with the proposal, but I think it's still something to work towards).

[Maximius]

It would be better if Mom and Dad just didn't have the kid in the first place. Rather than clinging to their stupid notions of "sacred life", the state should be actively encouraging and subsidising abortions in order to remove potential future criminal elements from the pool.

 

 

Well, orb, I think addressing poverty issues seriously would take care of that rather than encouraging and subsidizing abortions. Although I fully support access to abortions for all women and it should be subsidized if the money is needed. These people are not naturally "potential criminals", they are the product of poverty, of racism, of being ignored and powerless and despised. Like almost all US families throughout our history, they need social support, a safety net to help jump start healthy development, both on a community and individual level.

[oDDity]

Well no, that's bollocks, plenty of people in plenty of countries are poor and hungry and powerless, and a lot worse off than these people, but they don't become hoodlums and murdering thugs. I'll hear no excuses please.

It's the entire cankerous structure of US society that' the problem. It's rotten to the core - get rich quick, money and possessions mean everything, get up the ladder any way you can and pull it up after you - that's the problem, and add in the poverty and lack of education after that and you've got big problems.

Extreme capitalism is as bad as extreme communism or extreme fascism, it's just that it looks shinier.

[OrbWeaver]

We force people to go through background checks, reference checks, etc, for adopting children. I don't think there's any *moral* reason not to do the same for conceiving one in the first place (admittedly, there are a crapload of *practical* problems with the proposal, but I think it's still something to work towards).

 

Damn right. The checks for adoption are absurd, you practically have to prove you are a recently-castrated consultant paediatrician in order to give a home to a existing child, but anybody can have their own child and abuse it every day without anyone even noticing.

 

Well, orb, I think addressing poverty issues seriously would take care of that rather than encouraging and subsidizing abortions.

 

And what better way to address poverty than reduce the number of future people affected by it?

[SneaksieDave]

Well no, that's bollocks, plenty of people in plenty of countries are poor and hungry and powerless, and a lot worse off than these people, but they don't become hoodlums and murdering thugs. I'll hear no excuses please.

I'm not a big fan of apologism and blaming the system alone for ills of the individual, either. If one poor, inner city minority (or other!) kid can stay in school and try their best, and ultimately succeed as a result of their efforts (like the rest of us), then there's no reason any other such kid can't at least attempt to do the same. Get a job, or stay at home and help mom cook dinner, or anything besides druggin' and thuggin'. In other words, grow up.

 

There are even (racist) scholarships for many, to help along the way. Those of us ineligible for such discriminatory leg-up bullshit (which only perpetuates the problem) have to depend on merit.

[Vadrosaul]

I stumbled across this article just now, and remembered this thread: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/070508/...charge_study_dc

 

There's probably too many powerful parties with bottom lines to look after. How else can a country with one the world's most advanced medical systems have a large contingent of its populous unable to afford medicine. Drug companies are one the greediest, most powerful special interest groups in America.