Thief TDP and Thief TMA

[lowenz]

People over at TTLG are working on it, see here for more details: http://modetwo.net/d...p-cover-source/

 

In the meantime, TafferPatcher is one of the best solutions for creating a new working installation on modern machines.

 

http://www.ttlg.com/...ad.php?t=131106

 

Looks like there's an update on the last page of the thread, so skim the pages.

TafferPatcher (name is amazing ) is pure gold.

 

No problem running T2 on Win7 64 @1680x1050 or @1920x1080 with an Intel i3 530@4 GHz + GeForce GTX 460.

Edited July 11, 2011 by lowenz

[Baddcog]

 

 

Honestly, I am not nearly as interested in creating a rip-off storyline in a rip-off world of the Thief world. I would much rather preserve and improve Thief. Yes, I like fan-missions, but usually the fun goofy ones (like A Mother's Love...my fav), not the intense story-line driven ones. When it comes to them, Thief has never been out-done.

 

 

 

 

That confuses me so maybe I'm not getting your meaning.

 

To me it sounds like:

 

I'm not interested to help with TDM because it's a rip-off. No I'd rather FULLY rip-off redo Thief because it was so perfect, and yet I want to improve upon it because it wasn't good enough.

Ironically I don't like the serious quality FM's but rather like the goofy non-thief like ones better. (I can't recall 'A Mother's Love' personally so I am not sure how that is fun/goofy) because serious ones can't outdo thief so I like the ones that have no chance better.

[Durad]

That confuses me so maybe I'm not getting your meaning.

 

To me it sounds like:

 

I'm not interested to help with TDM because it's a rip-off. No I'd rather FULLY rip-off redo Thief because it was so perfect, and yet I want to improve upon it because it wasn't good enough.

Ironically I don't like the serious quality FM's but rather like the goofy non-thief like ones better. (I can't recall 'A Mother's Love' personally so I am not sure how that is fun/goofy) because serious ones can't outdo thief so I like the ones that have no chance better.

 

No, I am not saying that TDM is a rip-off. I am saying that rather than me build a level based on Thief (ei, what I would create would be a rip-off), I would rather work toward preserving Thief. And yes, just because I love Thief does not mean that I think it is perfect. I would nonetheless though want it in its original form as well, thus the purist version FIRST. A Mother's Love was a mission where you could summon tons of creatures in an arena and fight them/make them fight each other. It was happy-go-slashy fun.

[Shadowhide]

A Mother's Love was a mission where you could summon tons of creatures in an arena and fight them/make them fight each other. It was happy-go-slashy fun.

 

check out "Garret and the beanstalk" from same author

 

its great !

 

 

[Glyph Seeker]

Sorry, Durad, I didn't mean to get mad but I seriously don't get why a lot of Thief die-hards keep knocking TDS, and naysaying Thief 4, but then also say they have no interest in The Dark Mod...

 

Here's a thought - if you really love Thief and want to do things without copyright stomping - would you and your friends not be satisfied to just follow the /theme/ of Thief? ie, create a campaign with very close objectives (Manor Theft, Prison Rescue, Crypt Raid etc.) and broad level layouts, but improving on them based on the new lighting techniques and physics we have?

 

Surely you can squint and imagine the Builders are Hammers? =-3

[pusianka]

Ehm... Maybe my brain is fooling me but wasn't it said that thief 4 will be an upgraded remake of one of first two installments of Thief? Actually I'd love to see thief 1 and 2 redone in TDM... Why? Because I know perfectly the storyline and all the lvl but not because I played them but because I watched them all on YouTube. Yes! If you're looking for a fanatic then I might be one of the freakiest. I couldn't play the first two installments because I couldn't take the graphics that are in those games. I liked TDS because it had great story. Yes it was easy, but it was involving and scary at parts. I had problems with getting into TDM because first person is not a common way of experiencing a platformer. It has it's good sides but it also has drawbacks. I for one would love to see 2 camera modes so I could admire the climbing and skill jumping in 3rd person and sneak through the rooms in 1st person. TDM FMs still didn't reach the lvl of really involving stories. I am mostly not convinced by map makers that I am a unique thief who can steal from anyone. Tho I love to experience your work because I admire it as it is. I am aware that you'll get better with time and for now it's just teasing but it's good enough to satisfy. Sotha is quite good at convincing that I am a thief in some kind of world he created from a scratch but to be honest his missions doesn't surprise me in anyway... (Surprise me Sotha, Pls Do! I hold my thumbs that you'll surprise me!) I really hope that someday you'll all come out with a story comparable to thief! Builder bless thee all!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<< BUILDER FUEL US>>

[Shadowhide]

Because I know perfectly the storyline and all the lvl but not because I played them but because I watched them all on YouTube.

 

holy cow,you saying you know storyline perfectly from youtube videos ?????? watching Thief on youtube is crime a too ! tell me,what Constantine wants from Garrett ?

 

I couldn't play the first two installments because I couldn't take the graphics that are in those games.

 

NO,GRAPHICS IS GOOOD IN FIRST THIEF GAMES !!!11 TEXTURES IS LOWRES,BUT LEVEL DESIGN IS GREAT AND GAME LOOKS GOOD,ESPECIALLY T1 !111

 

I for one would love to see 2 camera modes so I could admire the climbing and skill jumping in 3rd person and sneak through the rooms in 1st person.

 

OMG,PLAYING THIAF IN THIRDPERSON IS BAD !!!!!!1 PLAY FPS ONLY RESPECT THE CLASSICS !111

 

TDM FMs still didn't reach the lvl of really involving stories.

 

agreed.TDM needs campaign

 

Surprise me Sotha, Pls Do! I hold my thumbs that you'll surprise me!

 

 

wait surprise from Johannes Burock,he is the best TDM visual artist so far

Edited July 11, 2011 by Shadowhide

[jdude]

No, I am not saying that TDM is a rip-off. I am saying that rather than me build a level based on Thief (ei, what I would create would be a rip-off), I would rather work toward preserving Thief. And yes, just because I love Thief does not mean that I think it is perfect. I would nonetheless though want it in its original form as well, thus the purist version FIRST. A Mother's Love was a mission where you could summon tons of creatures in an arena and fight them/make them fight each other. It was happy-go-slashy fun.

 

Remaking Thief1 or 2 in TDM is ripping it off. What you are saying is the equivalent to saying, "my fake Rolex is a tribute to real Rolexes."

[Tels]

Remaking Thief1 or 2 in TDM is ripping it off. What you are saying is the equivalent to saying, "my fake Rolex is a tribute to real Rolexes."

 

 

Unless you build it all yourself, then it would be really "my handmade Rolex is a tribute to Rolex". See f.i. all the guys that build something big in Lego, or from matches, or whatever.

[pusianka]

holy cow,you saying you know storyline perfectly from youtube videos ?????? watching Thief on youtube is crime a too ! tell me,what Constantine wants from Garrett ?

 

 

 

NO,GRAPHICS IS GOOOD IN FIRST THIEF GAMES !!!11 TEXTURES IS LOWRES,BUT LEVEL DESIGN IS GREAT AND GAME LOOKS GOOD,ESPECIALLY T1 !111

 

 

 

OMG,PLAYING THIAF IN THIRDPERSON IS BAD !!!!!!1 PLAY FPS ONLY RESPECT THE CLASSICS !111

 

 

 

agreed.TDM needs campaign

 

 

 

 

wait surprise from Johannes Burock,he is the best TDM visual artist so far

 

 

Constantine wants an artifact from builder cathedral and then as a reward he rips your eye ;p

 

I have full respect for first 2 installments but its simply the generations thing, if I started playing this game back when it was high quality graphics I would probably play it till now but I didnt so I admire the story line and characters creation. I just can't look at a guard with boxhead and pretend he is my enemy, sorry I really wish it was different.

 

Johannes showed beautiful visuals but it isn't something that others did't achieve on satisfying lvl as well. However I say that to sotha because his missions seem to be technically best(scripts and conversations). Also you shadowhide, you showed nice scripting work tho your visuals were not that good (and all the bugs!). I strongly believe that you will surprise me some day with your beautiful FM. (You almost did in with your first one, SH!)

 

I hate when people can't back up what they believe in with something more then "Have respect for the classics". I already said there are pros and cons of that and allowing people to choose would be a nice way to get more people into the community.

[Mortem Desino]

Hee hee. Yahtzee was right: the character models still look like badly folded origami.

[7upMan]

Hee hee. Yahtzee was right: the character models still look like badly folded origami.

 

I love that dude, but I have serious trouble understanding him. Anyway, Pusianka, the main problem with creating storyline-driven FMs is that it requires a huge amount of resources. Part of what made Thief special were the cut-scenes. They had to be written, voiced and produced, which is no menial task. The voice acting alone is serious work, as you yourself have noticed.

 

 

However, Jo and I are trying our best to raise the bar. You'll see if we succeed.

 

 

[Shadowhide]

I have full respect for first 2 installments but its simply the generations thing, if I started playing this game back when it was high quality graphics I would probably play it till now but I didnt so I admire the story line and characters creation.

 

i understand that.too bad you didn't played T1/2 in you childhood

 

maybe texture pack and hipoly models should help ? i think not

 

Also you shadowhide, you showed nice scripting work tho your visuals were not that good (and all the bugs!).

 

soon enough mission be updated to v2. now it looking good and not buggy anymore.see "what are you working on " thread for more details

 

I strongly believe that you will surprise me some day with your beautiful FM. (You almost did in with your first one, SH!)

 

i dont think this ever will happen...

 

Hee hee. Yahtzee was right: the character models still look like badly folded origami.

 

STOP........

 

LETTING.

 

DOWN

 

CLASSICS !11!!!!1

 

 

[Mortem Desino]

Wow, Shadowhide. Feeling personally insulted over Thief, are we? Go outside, cool off, take your girlfriend out to lunch. I think your boohoohoo'ing temper tantum is "letting down classics" right now.

 

Besides, if I planned on letting down and disrespecting thief, I probably wouldn't have been a TDM dev.

[7upMan]

Wow, Shadowhide. Feeling personally insulted over Thief, are we? Go outside, cool off, take your girlfriend out to lunch.

 

This is his "girlfriend". ^^

[Shadowhide]

Wow, Shadowhide. Feeling personally insulted over Thief, are we? Go outside, cool off, take your girlfriend out to lunch. I think your boohoohoo'ing temper tantum is "letting down classics" right now.

 

Besides, if I planned on letting down and disrespecting thief, I probably wouldn't have been a TDM dev.

 

no,i didnt feeling personally insulted over Thief

You just want too much from 1998 game

Quake 1 or Quake 2 didnt look much better.As for tech side,Dark engine have a skeletal animation (when Q1/2 have vertex animation) and in dark engene,single object can swing,rotate, be light source and trigger at once , you dont need to bind func rotate to light ect...

 

This is his "girlfriend". ^^

what exactly ? ornament texture with normalmap ? ok,great joke bro

Edited July 13, 2011 by Shadowhide

[New Horizon]

no,i didnt feeling personally insulted over Thief

You just want too much from 1998 game

 

Shadowhide. Yahtzee is a game reviewer. Yahtzee LOVES Thief. Yahtzee makes his video reviews humorous. Yahtzee's comment about the Thief AI looking like badly folded origami was a joke. If I remember correctly, he also used that comment to firmly demonstrate how good the game was because while playing you don't care that the AI don't look great by today's standards.

 

Maybe there is something culturally or linguistically being misunderstood here, but the comment was not an insult. It was a playful joke.

[Shadowhide]

im feel stupid

i dunno who is Yahtzee and neer watched his thief review

and i really dunno why you think im personally insulted by Yahtze's comparing thief AI's to badly folded origami

i dont care who like thief,who not

for example 7upman comment about T2

SH, thank you for reminding us how fugly the T2 engine looks ^^

in school,people get taste for books and literature

but there is no place to get good taste for games

[Mortem Desino]

in school,people get taste for books and literature

but there is no place to get good taste for games

Actually, video games are very much an art medium. My avatar? It comes from an old DOS game "Betrayal at Krondor", written by a critically acclaimed novelist -- Raymond E Feist. The story is one of my favorites, even if the technical graphics are primitive, and the gameplay is only OK.

 

My taste for literature ties in with video games more than you might think, Shadowhide. I loved reading "A Clockwork Orange" many times over, and I also loved playing "Amnesia: The Dark Descent". I've read Orson Scott Card, and I've played countless Sci-Fi RPGs. I enjoyed H.P. Lovecraft's "Shadow Over Innsmouth", and I loved playing "Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth".

 

Video games (if a person wants them to be) can be treated as nothing more than toys. Some toys are rusted clunkers, but still a lot of fun to play. Some toys are space-age with shiny chrome, and may not be any fun to play. But -- only if a person allows -- they can be so much more than that. Tastes change and mature over time. My ex-girlfriend admitted that Half-life 2 EP 2's ending was the first time a video game made her cry.

[7upMan]

While I do admit that I'd be the first to play a re-made Thief 1/Thief 2 in TDM, I'd be doing so because I love the original games. The Thief series established Garrett, a character unique in the world of games. It also established a whole new way to play, along with a compelling art design.

 

If you check my profile, you'll see that my favorite games are Homeworld 1 and Ground Control 1. Both games were ground-breaking - as was LG's Thief series, and while their looks might have aged by today's standards (though not as horribly as T1 or T2), I still immensely enjoy playing them. Just like Thief, they have a powerful story that sucks you right in. Like T3, their successors looked better but were a let-down in regards to gameplay and story.

 

What I'm trying to tell you is: To have played T1/T2 is a must, but clinging to those games just because they are canon is nonsense, IMO. The TDM team's approach is the best to this day: Take what you've learned and use it to create something new, with better graphics, better AI, better physics, better everything. In time, big campaigns like Thief 2X (which I very much enjoyed) will follow.

 

All of this is the result of us - as a community - having played (and enjoyed) the Thief series, but if the core team had followed your approach to cling to the original games, there would be no The Dark Mod. What a sad world that would be.

 

 

Oh, and by the way, I just looove pulling your leg.

[Shadowhide]

The TDM team's approach is the best to this day: Take what you've learned and use it to create something new, with better graphics, better AI, better physics, better everything. In time, big campaigns like Thief 2X (which I very much enjoyed) will follow.

 

You can create something beautiful using any thief game if you are have talents for that

 

this is looks bad ?

 

or this ?

 

or maybe this ?

 

nope,all this screens looks gorgeous and this FMs is better than anything released so far for TDM . but if you didnt like them,you just a graphic sucker who didn't look at design,colors and so and mind only hires textures and hipoly models

 

personally,i hate when someone saying : "wow he's t2 map looks nice,how to make him work in TDM????"

if you respect classics,why the hell you call them ugly ? (you called T2 engine ugly,you probably great programmer who looked at T2 source code with disgust)

 

 

i wonder : if T2 engine port will have shadows,physics and ragdolls,per-pixel lights,shaders....

 

 

 

I just looove pulling your leg.

 

praiseworthily !

Edited July 13, 2011 by Shadowhide

[7upMan]

i wonder : if T2 engine port will have shadows,physics and ragdolls,per-pixel lights,shaders....

 

...it would still have AI that looks like badly folded Origami.

[Shadowhide]

thats everything you have to reply at ?

 

 

[New Horizon]

i wonder : if T2 engine port will have shadows,physics and ragdolls,per-pixel lights,shaders....

 

If it does get all those fancy things added to it, every texture will have to be remade from scratch in high resolution....with bump maps and specular. Essentially, it will look a lot like TDM looks now.

[Shadowhide]

If it does get all those fancy things added to it, every texture will have to be remade from scratch in high resolution....with bump maps and specular. Essentially, it will look a lot like TDM looks now.

 

NV already called talented artists

 

one of the WIP examples

 

 

 

another:

 

 

and another :

 

 

 

of course badly folded Origami be retextured too !!!!1

 

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2011 by Shadowhide