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I'm just here to gush embarrassingly about another Wellington Crab mission. MD2: LHMN is a delicious bit of offbeat strangeness, dreamlike, surreal, but made odd sense to me at the right moments, so that I made it though the entire thing by myself this time, instead of being constantly (though enjoyably) overwhelmed as in Iris. Of course, it's lovingly crafted and peppered with clever little bits of window dressing that might seem distracting and extraneous in a lesser mission. I still have little idea what the overall story was, but I enjoyed every minute of the experience. Wellington Crab, you are a genius and an artist, and I look forward keenly to your next mission.

Cute mission, was a bit short though. Really loved everything about it, but was really expecting a longer mission until I saw that it was an April Fools' mission.

Nice mission, good atmosphere, and I liked... ...particularly, but after hours searching for... ...and I was forced to move on. .

https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Objectives#Mission states: Is this correct? Because DR's objective editor creates an entity called atdm_target_addobjectives . Edit: Changed it into atdm_target_addobjectives

The translation pack has the german string in the base pack rather than in the fm subfolder. I will fix it in the mission database. Edit: Fixed in the mission db Edit 2: Nope. Not exactly fixed. It seems that lang files in the mission string folder need to be "complete" because they fully override the core strings. If I am correct, this was broken in 2.11 when we permitted in-file overrides of core files in missions. Edit 3: Still broken in 2.10, rolling back to 2.07 Edit 4: Still broken in 2.07. Something has gotta be wrong with the translation specific to this mission. Edit 5: The core mission XD files don't use the strings so nothing happens if the lang files are in the strings/fm subfolder. Probably means that the translation packs "never worked" for many missions unless impacted players sought out special editions of the missions on Tels' server. What a mess. Fuzzy recollection time: I think Tels was trying to push the team to mass convert all missions to move XD data into strings/fm/english.lang but nobody wanted to broach it and even mission authors weren't happy about this way of handling things. If the translation pack takes precedence, the best way forward is to include the converted XD file into it. Testing... Edit 6: Couldn't get the XD update to work, so I decided to checkout Darkfate's version. It works flawlessly. I copied their pack into the standard translation pack and the added string files for the other languages worked as well. Darkfate's packs include map files so I'll need to study whether we can avoid that. Otherwise we are basically doubling our mission db or "damaging" our hosted versions to make them translatable. Since this mission is so small and probably will never be edited again we can probably use darkfate's version as-is.

It very well could be from another TDM mission, but it felt very reminiscent of Thief 3. It felt like a core memory when I heard it.

Absolutely loved this mission, great job. I immediately recognized the minimal piano key track once you get inside- is that from Thief 3? I want to say it's from the seaside manor mission in T3, but maybe in another part of that game? Let me know, now I'm super curious. This is one of my favorite missions recently!

This is how i18n typically works in code: Developers write the strings in English (or their native language), but mark all the strings with a function/macro which identifies them for translation. In C++ this might be _("blah") or tr("blah") — something which is short and easy to write. A tool (which may be integrated into the build system), extracts all the strings marked for translation into a big list of translatable strings. This list is then provided to the translators, who do not need to be developers or compile the code themselves. They just create a translation for each listed string and send back a file in the appropriate format (which may or may not be created with the help of translation tools, perhaps with a GUI). At runtime, the code looks up each translatable string, finds the corresponding translated string in the chosen language, and shows the translated version. At no point do developers (who in this case would be mission authors) have to mess around with manually choosing string IDs. All they do is use the appropriate function/macro/syntax to mark particular strings as translatable. String IDs may be used internally but are completely invisible to developers. I suggest that any system that involves instructions like "search the list of known strings for a similar string" or "manually choose a string ID between 20000 and 89999 and then write it as #str_23456" are over-complicated, un-ergonomic and doomed to be largely ignored by mappers.

We get it, you don't like the mission. No need to stamp it into the ground. This is total nonsense. There are much larger missions than this with more story and they get good reviews.

Well if you go to the mission downloader again, it will show a new update for the mission, which is the translation pack. If I select Germain language and activate The Outpost, TDM will not start anymore (2.13 dev)

Then your experience is different than mine. I just recently downloaded a very old mission, The Outpost, that is listed as having German, French, Italian translations, to test out language capabilities. It was not converted (no "#str" found in .map file). Nor was there a language pack included (at least not from thedarkmod downloader).

I agree; a very tasty little morsel of a mission.

If all written strings were kept in XD files, the process would be easier. We shouldn't need map edits for this. The current system makes mission updates a real problem to the point that only long dormant missions are viable for translation.

Merci pour cette mission délicieuse, c'est magnifique!

I don't understand this. When I download a mission, I can still download and update the translation files for it using the build-in mission downloader. Also, the language packs are downloadable for the missions that have them. Nobody is making these language packs though. Not sure why. I heard the translation conversion script is hard to use. I only know 2 languages and there's no need for language packs in one of those (Dutch).

Interesting idea. Not sure about my upcoming time availability to help. A couple of concerns here - - I assume the popup words uses the "Informative Texts" slot, e.g., where you might see "Acquired 80 in Jewels", so it likely wouldn't interfere with that or with already-higher subtitles. - There are indications that #str is becoming unviable in FMs; see my just-posted: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22434-western-language-support-in-2024/

EDIT - v1.1 can be found a few posts below ------------------------------------------------------------------ Nameless Objects Mod v1.0 Description: this mod adds names to almost all core objects players can grab and hold in their hands. ------------------------------------------------------------------- How to use: As of this moment the Mod only works if you have "Core Essentials", which is included in TDM Modpack v4.0. Make sure to have "Core Essentials" and then download the *.pk4 attached to this post and place it in your TDM folder. I try my best to provide stuff people can experience first hand to form an opinion. I suggest you try "Business as Usual" by Bikerdude since this mission includes quite a few items you can grab right at the beginning. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Technical: The mod consists in a couple of def files and a script. I had to include two defs because otherwise there can be issues related with inheritance. The script does most of the work and it will run in the background as soon as a mission starts. The script runs once but it takes its time (10 to 30 seconds) not to hinder performance. All this is transparent to you. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Future: I wouldn't like this to remain as a mod and I volunteer to add names to all core defs for 2.13. I would, of course, use the translation system so that names can be translated in the future to languages other than English. I can name all core defs in a couple of rainy mornings but the Development Team must guarantee this work won't go to waste. The idea is that we name all core objects today and we let it stay: nothing changes in the source code and nothing gets displayed on screen. We get stuff done in the background and someday perhaps, all or part of it sees the light in some form. ------------------------------------------------------------------ There are quite a few things that must be discussed and agreed before we get started but the first step is: yes or no. People that might be interested in supporting and helping with this initiative: @datiswous, @Geep. Cheers! z_nameless_objects_mod_v1.0.pk4

I saw a ring in a toilet once in a thief FM I was playing and thought it would be funny to include that. But now it’s just become a running gag. I didn’t include it in one mission and someone DMd me and asked about why it was missing haha. So I guess all missions have to include it now

In post https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/profile/254-orbweaver/&status=3994&type=status @nbohr1more found out what the Fixup Map functionality is for. But what does it actually do? Does it search for def references (to core?) that don't excist anymore and then link them to defs with the same name elswhere? Also I would recommend to change the name into something better understood what it is for. Fixup map could mean anything. And it should be documented in the wiki.

I'm at the beginning of a new area, where bandits fights each other. Near the end, I imagine, but I'm not going to bother finishing it. The thing is tedious. It's very obvious your focus was on telling a story. The issue is that's not my thing, and I also think this is not the right game for it. You're trying to make it do things it was never designed to, so it feels clunky. I think the game shines best in a smaller map with some backstory and little touches in the mission, like notes one character leaves for another. Here, it feels like I'm being pulled along from place to place, having to go back where enemies have artificially respawned, with locked doors everywhere, JUST to further the story, not to give me an interesting challenge. And in terms of story, it's the same thing we see all the time: Pagans are the poor, downtrodden, nice people, and the Builders, are the heartless monsters. Yawn. I don't get how the gargoyle switch works in that guy's office, even after having read your explanation. I don't even understand what the situation is supposed to be. The gargoyle looks like it's locked inside a glass case, and therefore you want to get that glass case open. The note says the gargoyle switch is behind the downstairs desk. Downstairs from this note, there is no desk. And the note calls it the "gargoyle switch", which implies it's a switch for the gargoyle, not that the gargoyle itself is a switch. It's confusing for no good reason. Random notes: Boring name, as others have mentioned. A cursive font in letters is annoying to read. Loud music and sound effects are not fun, it just hurts the player's ears. The map is a screenshot. That ruins immersion. The light issues have been covered. For me, it never felt like I was in shadows, as opposed to other missions. Almost everything looks pretty brightly lit. I saw someone mentioning rope arrows are pointless, and I agree. You asked how that player could have made it past something without using one; well, I haven't used it either. You can just mantle. Of course, that's not an issue in itself. There's not reason to cry "I'm getting review bombed" when people are just giving their opinion.

Another failure by @kingsal. Firstly the mission is way too short. And like his other missions, the quality is supreme, keeps me playing and neglecting real life duties. Never feeling the frustration of getting stuck, never resolving to walkthrough material. Is it a sign of excellent design or rather a lack of challenge? Also extreme attention to detail, engaging maps from room to a room, gorgeous visually. I understand this is just a free-time effort for someone who could instead make money out of his skills but, I'm sure you could do better.

Another plausible scenario is where the player has a number of tasks/missions to complete but they can choose to do them in any order - giving the player a bit more agency, Tied with this, you might want to be able to re-enter a mission - e,g, it's some sort of hub (memories of the 'Pocket Plane' in Baldur's Gate 2 come to mind).

Ok, but you could also load all maps in your campaign, but in a different order. Or you could make a copy of the map and change some things. So it doesn't have to be an entirally different mission (which indeed might be too much work). So for example the first mission has an objective to place the plans to build a bridge over the river in a specific place. Then the next mission has that bridge (map1), or does not have that bridge (map2). Mapper only has to make a copy of the map and remove the bridge (and maybe a small amount of other things). I just think that having only one specific order is pretty restrictive. But if it's a lot of work to implement it might not be worth it.

Another thing, not sure if it's entirally related: If you have a campaign, you might want to have different maps loaded depending what you do in the mission. Currently there's one specific order, but it would be cool if another map could be loaded. So you could get different debriefings, but also different followup missions based on that. I don't want to derail the topic, so if needed this could be split into a new feature request.

That is interesting question. I think no? In principle, I guess I can cover it as well. If I want to expose persistent info from mission as gui vars, I can as well copy some gui vars into persistent info before mission.