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Ocn's questions on TDM editing.


ocn
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Ah - a readable - I thought you were talking about your map.

 

I can't get it to crash so I can only suggest a few things.

 

Update your Dark Radiant if it is not uptodate and try again.

 

Close Dark Radiant and extract darkmod/tdm_prefabs01.pk4 into your darkmod folder. Try the readables editor again.

 

You've probably already done the above and it still fails so...

 

In your darkmod/xdata folder open the file named prefabs.xd in a plain text editor and save it back to the same folder as say, test.xd (make sure no other suffix such as .txt)

All of the xdata definitions start with the xdata name, then a { then end on a }

Search down for the type of readable you want (It does not matter too much about the font which you can change later.) So for example...

 

book_hand_popsies

{

stuff.....

}

 

You need to delete all the lines above and below it leaving on the definition that is, the header name plus the first curly bracket on the line below, all the lines below that right down to its last two lines...

 

"snd_page_turn" : "readable_page_turn"

}

 

 

Keep all the above and delete all other lines in the file.

CHANGE the header name to something unique you want, eg, change book_hand_popsies to jims_log

Save it.

 

Create your readable entity in Dark Radiant and in Entity Inspector, type in the following property and value:

 

xdata_contents

jims_log (or whatever you named your xdata above.)

 

If you now open the readables editor it should display your readable above and you don't need to change the name.

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In your darkmod/xdata folder open the file named prefabs.xd in a plain text editor...

 

 

 

Ah... I had no prefabs.xd file in that folder. I manually created that directory. I copied it over, it works fine now. Thanks.

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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So, removing the prefabs.xd file makes DarkRadiant crash? Is this the cause?

 

I would think so as I've had no crashes since copying the file over. But, of course, one can't be absolutely sure.

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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I can't make it crash just by clicking on the xdata name and I have not extracted the pk4 nor do I have an xdata folder in this install. My guess is that it's an old bug already fixed. What version of Dark Radiant are you using ocn? Check menu > Help > about.

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I can't make it crash just by clicking on the xdata name and I have not extracted the pk4 nor do I have an xdata folder in this install. My guess is that it's an old bug already fixed. What version of Dark Radiant are you using ocn? Check menu > Help > about.

 

Dark Radiant 1.4.0 for x86

 

I was adviced earlier in this thread to manually create a darkmod/xdata directory if I wanted to edit readables without issues. A procedure I may well have misunderstood- I admit, but now I get the impression that it's not needed. Perhaps creating an empty xdata folder caused the problem if it's not necessary in the first place.

 

EDIT: Oh, I should add that I've the Steam version of Doom3, but the wiki says it's compatible with TDM. Don't remember if DR is mentioned, but I guess that wouldn't matter.

 

EDIT 2: I just tried to remove the contents of darkmod/xdata edit a new readable and the crashes returned. So, that's obviously the problem on my end at least.

Edited by ocn

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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So an empty or non-existent xdata folder crashes it? So what do you actually need in the xdata folder? Is a blank xd file enough?

 

If I have no xdata folder at all and I create a new readable entity then in the editor I see a default name of:

 

readables/unnamed/<Name_Here> (because my map is not saved yet, ie, is unnamed.)

 

Do you see that? So if you just click that it crashes DR?

 

If I enter test for the name and type some text then try to save I get an error message "failed to open for saving" but it doesn't crash.

 

If I externally create an xdata folder then try again, the editor now correctly saves a new xd file in the folder.

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So an empty or non-existent xdata folder crashes it? So what do you actually need in the xdata folder? Is a blank xd file enough?

 

If I have no xdata folder at all and I create a new readable entity then in the editor I see a default name of:

 

readables/unnamed/<Name_Here> (because my map is not saved yet, ie, is unnamed.)

 

Do you see that? So if you just click that it crashes DR?

 

If I enter test for the name and type some text then try to save I get an error message "failed to open for saving" but it doesn't crash.

 

If I externally create an xdata folder then try again, the editor now correctly saves a new xd file in the folder.

 

prefabs.xd definitely needs to be present. Attached a screenshot.

 

EDIT: Sorry, I haven't tested if it has to be prefabs.xd or if any other file will do.

 

EDIT 2: This might be far fetched, but it occured to me that the crash upon click may be a red herring, perhaps it crashes on an auto-save and I just happened to click somewhere... No, maybe not. Sounded good in my head, though. But then a lot of things do.

post-3566-129251452025_thumb.jpg

Edited by ocn

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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I've followed the wiki on how to create doors, but whatever value I add to the loss_closed property makes no difference whatsoever. It's a sliding door of stone (made from a brush) so I'd like it to block out a fair deal.

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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... The loss to the player is fixed and there is no easy way to manage it unfortunately.

 

This bothers me too much for comfort. You say there is no EASY way... what is the hard way? It's either that or my mission needs a complete redesign.

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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loss_closed only applies to the sound signal passed to AI not the audible sound to the player. The loss to the player is fixed and there is no easy way to manage it unfortunately.

 

Are you sure it's not the other way around?

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Yes, unless there has been a very recent change I don't know about, audible sound loss is fixed by one cvar value throughout all visportalled doors. I've considered dynamically changing that cvar by script as the player proceeds but it feels risky and could probably get stuck in the wrong value - perhaps even for other maps I'm not sure if an FM crashed out.

 

I've tried double visportals in the door.

 

Extra hidden doors linked to the first door (so loss is doubled) and controlled by script so the player can't see them.

 

Maybe one could have two thin doors func static between so they look like one door and two visportals one in each door. So the two door entities are linked and look like one door but two visportals close! (you can see I've gone rather crazy with ideas.)

 

As I say, I can't think of any easy realistic solution.

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You can't control the volume level of certain soundsources through the open/closed state of a door?

 

ADDITION: Don't mean question anyones authority, it just sounds incredible that it is not a relatively easy soltution. And if it is not then I regard it as a monumental shortcoming, especially for a game of this nature. Is it the engine itself, or a not yet implemented function of DR? I really hope it's the latter.

Edited by ocn

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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You can't control the volume level of certain soundsources through the open/closed state of a door?

 

I don't really understand why you'd need to. In any case it might be an idea to look at the location separator entities, there should be a wiki page for locations. IIRC they you can set spawnargs on them to control some volume stuff, tho I might just be thinking of ambient music. Try keep visportals nice and tidy near entrances(make 100% sure that they are working correctly too, sound uses visportals and broken ones will make things sound all kinds of wrong), maybe use speakers with triggers... :mellow: Most of the time things sound fine if you're not trying to base mapping around trying to be super realistic.

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You can't control the volume level of certain soundsources through the open/closed state of a door?

 

ADDITION: Don't mean question anyones authority, it just sounds incredible that it is not a relatively easy soltution. And if it is not then I regard it as a monumental shortcoming, especially for a game of this nature. Is it the engine itself, or a not yet implemented function of DR? I really hope it's the latter.

In most cases it is OK and it's only now there are FMs that it is a noticeable problem. During development there were not the range and size of maps and door types and sound situations I guess. There have been discussions and it might be on tracker. It ought to be fixable because eavesdropping works. If you lean into a door the loss is decreased. Check around and what has been discussed and maybe add it to tracker yourself if it is not there.

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Um... What would the criteria be for a secret to really be a secret, in your opinion? I mean for the player to really feel that they've discovered something hidden.

Something else I just remembered that I think is included in the definition of a secret: it should not be part of an objective or part of the way you have to go anyway to complete the FM. I think incidental loot found is OK though. So, finding a secret hiding place up a chimney that is not essential to the main mission might be a secret, even if you find some loot there. But not if that is the only way forward in the FM to the next section which everyone has to do.
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Woke up in the middle of the night and thought I had a brilliant, just brilliant idea. I was convinced I'd get a mention in the history books, a statue in the main square, key to the city- you know, the lot.

Wait for it...

 

No-clipping, nodraw textured, func static brushes with visportals carefully and cunningly vedged between them.

 

No, no go.<_<

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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Are you sure it's not the other way around?

 

No, it's definitely the way he stated.

 

You can't control the volume level of certain soundsources through the open/closed state of a door?

 

ADDITION: Don't mean question anyones authority, it just sounds incredible that it is not a relatively easy soltution. And if it is not then I regard it as a monumental shortcoming, especially for a game of this nature. Is it the engine itself, or a not yet implemented function of DR? I really hope it's the latter.

 

I've not tested this but I think the best way to achieve what you want is to control volume control with a script that runs when the door is frobbed. I guess this is what you have in mind? Unless there is something particularly weird in adjusting sounds with a script in Doom3 it should be quite simple to do.

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I've not tested this but I think the best way to achieve what you want is to control volume control with a script that runs when the door is frobbed. I guess this is what you have in mind? Unless there is something particularly weird in adjusting sounds with a script in Doom3 it should be quite simple to do.

 

Cool. Since loss_closed/open controls the sound travelling to the AI, all that remains is to somehow adjust the sounds that reaches the player. And I can't see why that should involve complex real world physics algorithms or anything like that. The player is not an AI. It's just controlling the volume level of a speaker or entity through a set of conditions like is the door open or closed. Or am I completely out in the fields here, I could be- seems to happen a lot.

 

@Fidcal: Yeah. I know.;)

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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Cool. Since loss_closed/open controls the sound travelling to the AI, all that remains is to somehow adjust the sounds that reaches the player. And I can't see why that should involve complex real world physics algorithms or anything like that. The player is not an AI. It's just controlling the volume level of a speaker or entity through a set of conditions like is the door open or closed. Or am I completely out in the fields here, I could be- seems to happen a lot.

No, it seems simple enough. I guess thousands of judgements had to be made during development and who knows what the reasoning was behind this. There may have been difficulties with being able to change it on all doors. As I say, your only option is check bugtracker and maybe add it.

 

Meanwhile, if there is a particular sound speaker and doorway that is causing a problem then consider moving the speaker as far away as possible; reduce the minimum distance to the least you can. The min distance should definitely be beyond the door. The loss through a door is really a virtual distance added to the sound so if that total distance is still less than the minimum then there will be no loss at all!

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It's here....

 

http://bugs.angua.at/my_view_page.php

 

You should browse through first to see if its' already on there. Maybe search for loss or door or something.

 

Alright, thanks. Doesen't appear to be anything there.

 

Had this weird thing happen... Typed r_showtris 2 in the console. And if I'm not mistaken it shows the effect visportals have on rendering, ie what's actually being rendered. Now if I view a random visportaled area from a specific angle the visportal's effect disappears and the polys that should have been, well gones, show as if there was no visportal there at all. So, does this mean there is something wrong with my portals?

Edited by ocn

Where are the REAL brits?! The one's we have are just brit-ish.

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