Seasons Constest Preliminary

[nbohr1more]

Last time it was just beautiful. Fids said: "Vertical" and the mappers came to him with joy.

 

This is because Fidcal is the kindly King who helped bring the gift of TDM to his subjects.

 

I am the 3rd tier chancellor\bureaucrat who is trying to wrangle the democratic process out of a conflicting public.

 

 

As long as anyone feels they have just as much legitimate say in how things are run as "the organizer" there will be some noise. But that is the noise of democracy and I think it will work out in the end.

 

Fidcal has been acting as an advisory in this process but it seems that the TDM team in general has been reluctant "lay down the law". (perhaps to avoid internal arguments over silly stuff?). I will again, extend the offer that any of the "Kings of TDM" may intercede and make specific requirements.

 

I kind of wish "Radiator" Yang would pop in and offer some suggestions. His academic take on design ideas would at least lend a somewhat scientific air to anything that is proposed (if only a perceptual one). That kind of "logical" persuasion would likely quell folks holding out for a 3rd re-vote for "Water-slides and moving coal cars mission"...

 

(Gotta make that "The Goonies" themed mission someday... but "The Rift" is enough to tide me over for now )

[ocn]

Perhaps a vote on the actual theme of the contest introduced too many individual ideas and opinions from the start. I can only speak for myself, but I started creating a map in my head to go with my favourite theme when the vote was going, and I registered a slight disappointment when it didn't turn out the way I wanted. Perhaps this phenomenon is real for others as well, and interest gradually wanes. The crowd splits and returns to everyday lives after the execution. "Nothing more to see here."

 

I'd love to enter even though I didn't get my Dark Secrets, but at this point I feel I am simply too unexperienced to provide any quality mission within the time limit. Mapping and atmosphere is one thing, introducing challenging gameplay is another.

[Melan]

I'd love to enter even though I didn't get my Dark Secrets, but at this point I feel I am simply too unexperienced to provide any quality mission within the time limit. Mapping and atmosphere is one thing, introducing challenging gameplay is another.

I am on the opinion that a contest could be the best way to teach yourself. You've got a focus, you've got a deadline and you've got a community that's ready to help you if something goes wrong.

[ocn]

I am on the opinion that a contest could be the best way to teach yourself. You've got a focus, you've got a deadline and you've got a community that's ready to help you if something goes wrong.

 

Perhaps I should enter? The worst thing that could happen is total humiliation, which I'm fairly used to anyway. I gather I can't be sued or anything if it turns out I can't meet the deadline and have to step down?

[nbohr1more]

We are still hopeful that some of the summer vertical contest entrants will release their missions. So any effort will be appreciated.

[Fidcal]

I probably didn't make my advice clear enough. Let me try again.

 

Contests do not need the approval of anyone on the Dark Mod Team.

 

There has been discussion and a vote and 'seasons' was the most popular. Discussion is good. Respect and take into account the various views aired but ultimately someone has to take charge. nbohr1more took the initiative but was a bit too flexible and open to discussion. This thread has just become an extension of the first one and can go on forever and get nowhere. Instead, do this:

 

• 
   
  
• Abandon this thread.
  
• Start a new thread something like: Seasons FM contest entrants. Please post here.
  
• Don't invite any discussion.
  
• State precisely your chosen contest theme.
  
• State precisely your rules.
  
• Anyone else is free to run their own contest.
  
• Something like this (but put your own choices)
  
• This contest is for any type of FM having a clear seasonal element such as weather etc. sun, snow, rain, fog.
  
• Because summer is not distinctive visually it is recommended (but not essential) that entries for summer be daylight FMs
  
• Voting will include how well the mapper displayed the seasonal element as well as the usual gameplay, etc.
  
• There is no size limit.
  
• Contest length: 3 months
  

 

• 
   
  
• Those interested in entering the contest please post below in this thread.
  
• Please state whether you're a maybe or a certain entrant and when you are free to start.
  
• The start date (and thereby the final day for entering) will be 1st March BUT
  
• If we get sufficient entries well before then we shall start early.
  
• If we do not get two or more then the contest will be abandoned. Discussion can then begin for a different topic.
  

 

This thread is not for discussion of how the contest should be run or whether it should be different. The only discussion should be for entrants or would-be entrants where their entry would be affected. For example, if there are 3 prospective entrants but two cannot start until mid-march then it's worth putting it back slightly to have all 3. Or if several entrants don't think they can finish in the time given or the size is not enough (not applicable here) etc.

 

Don't worry about it being the *perfect* contest or it's the end of the universe. It's just a contest. If no FMs are produced because of lack of entrants or lack of completions then there is nothing lost and a new contest can be organized later.

 

Good luck and enjoy.

[nbohr1more]

That is why you are a King

 

I will post a new thread with more backbone this time.

[Aprilsister]

I disagree and wish to digress because the very idea is silly and will only make a further mess. Assesrtion is as certain a certain way to a certain circle of hell.

[Baddcog]

I agree with Fids.

 

I know this from experience mapping in TF2. You do a map test, EVERYONE has an opinion what would be best to change whether or not it is.

 

Advice is like... everyone has some and most of it stinks, lol.

 

There's a point where you just have to say, this is how it is, take it or leave it.

---------

 

I agree ocn, you should enter.

 

There's no humiliation in entering, win or lose. At least you gave it a shot which is a lot more than most players will ever do anyway. The community is very supportive and will enjoy playing your mission if it's simple or complex, and complex missions aren't always the best anyway.

Of course the 'seasons' theme puts no limit on using the 'dark secrets' idea you had either. Whatever season you use you still have to have some kind of plot/story.

[ocn]

Okay then. Count me in. But I'm gonna' need a lot of assistance.

[Sotha]

I probably didn't make my advice clear enough. Let me try again.

[..]

 

This is great! Maybe a contest forming wiki article?

 

I agree that contest work the best with announcement type start, rather than let's discuss ad nauseaum and nothing gets done.

 

Okay then. Count me in. But I'm gonna' need a lot of assistance.

 

At your service!

 

Great decision, ocn! My zeroeth law of contest mapping is to make a good initial plan what you want to create. Then stick to it, so that you won't just add new areas and things uncontrollably, resulting in a never ending mapping project.

[nbohr1more]

All I can say at this point is please keep the conversation going.

 

I have not heard anything from Rage3d yet and I do not want to be inconsiderate and nag Lupine when he already informed me that it may take some time. If Rage3d cannot furbish any feedback about vendor involvement by Monday, I will simply let them know that we are starting now and will welcome their promotion even without any vendor.

 

Keep posting your early confirmations.

 

Thanks.

 

[Melan]

My zeroeth law of contest mapping is to make a good initial plan what you want to create. Then stick to it, so that you won't just add new areas and things uncontrollably, resulting in a never ending mapping project.

My method in the two contests I have entered (and, like Sotha, won ) has been to start with a vague plan, start building and see where that takes me. Unbidden Guest had a stronger overall concept ("recreate Life of the Party within the contest boundaries with a darker, TDP-inspired aesthetic") but the details only emerged gradually; Return to the City had very little ("break into a dog oil merchant's shop in a poor neighbourhood and steal some documents") and it ended up in a flaming wreckage as soon as I realised what I was building, and the stock resources at my disposal didn't fit that idea.

 

So there are multiple approaches that may work. Don't overextend yourself, though; that's important. And don't forget that a relatively simple mission can still be good. Of all the TDM missions that have been released so far, the one I have replayed most is Silencium's Special Delivery, a small heist scenario. It doesn't do anything too ambitious, it just works. Also, Thieves and Thief's Den. Small, simple, fun. We need more of those.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Melan

[_Atti_]

Some ideas:

 

Seasons should appear in missions not only as visuals and weather, but as the game-worlds reaction to it.

 

Seasonal activities indoor/outdoor should happen all around, possible reference to seasonal customs of various people should appear. So all in all, the mission should be a good reference of how the mapper feels about a certain season of the year going on in the world. I think it shouldn't even be resticted to the four casual seasons!

This is half a fantasy world... There could be like :A valley where there is a short season in the middle of winter when all the snow melts for a week and the world gets springlike before collapsing into another harsh winter that curses people with flooded areas freezing..So in XY pagan towns they build obstructions for the flood and have praying sessions every night under the willows of the riverbank to ask for help from their gods..

[Mr Lemony Fresh]

Dunno if this has been said yet but It could actually work, I mean providing the map is also based on the feel of that season captured like the sounds and colours and such.

 

Also as far as contest ideas go that I disagreed with, this one seems alright =)

[nbohr1more]

Fantasy seasons, eh?

 

Asteroid season?

 

Volcano season?

 

Spider season?

 

Season of the Witch!!!! \m/

 

I think the bulk of the original voters intended the season to be either Winter or Summer. Adding the other seasons was a tweak to add more diversity. Allowing Fantasy seasons would probably burn the last ounce of patience from some voter who wanted "Snow mission contest".

 

If I were a total scumbag, I would get on my soapbox and find a way to steer this contest into a Halloween ( ) contest by belittling every other season's short-comings.

[_Atti_]

By fantasy i really only meant some creativity..especially since TDM is half fantasy it could take in a bit more than snow/fallen leaves/ birds singing on the rooftops when talking about seasons. Like in the real world its not just winter/spring/summer/autumn carved in stone but has a lot more colour to it.

 

Another idea based on the above concept: Bridgeport industrial area's springtime means not sunshine and happiness, but acidic rains and poisionous heavy fogs,among these conditions nature's remaining forces fight for its yearly resurrection.Alchemists of bridgeport sets out to gather the rare short-living ingreadients this time of the year,which means a scavenge amongst the eldest of the city's ruins and sewers, some are trying with indoor/underground fields...meanwhile the natural areas are still in their slowly melting late-winter days, pagans making huge bonfires that are sometimes visible at nights from the city's towers to celebrate the coming warm.

 

So basically i think if its handled not like a snow/fallen leaves contest but as how it could happen in this strange dark world, how it effects the life of people around , it could get real interesting and valueable .

[ocn]

Gotta make that "The Goonies" themed mission someday...

 

Do it! Do it now! Love that classic it never gets old.

[Fidcal]

Yes I understand what _Atti is saying is use story to convey season not just snowflakes, for example a summer fair which brings together many traders and nobles and perhaps some opportunity for a thief. But I think that wants handling as a separate 'implementation ideas' for mappers not built in to the contest rules. (maybe that was intended?)

 

The contest imo should be simply defined as seasons. Voting will be affected by useage of that. So if someone does a roof top level and it just happens to be snow covered then that's fine. But another mapper might do a story about some great Ice Mage who is setting up to obscure the sun and bring perpetual winter. He might have a kind of open ice palace and the player has to recover his ice magic wand or something to thwart his plans.

 

I think the real reason this is a seasons contest is that it will take all four seasons to discuss it.

[Aprilsister]

I think the real reason this is a seasons contest is that it will take all four seasons to discuss it.

 

 

...

 

I too like the creativity-inspiring bent of _Atti_'s post:

 

Bridgeport industrial area's springtime means not sunshine and happiness, but acidic rains and poisionous heavy fogs,among these conditions nature's remaining forces fight for its yearly resurrection...

 

Here we have a chance to set about defining a bit of "canon".

 

This is an "open" world and there may not be a May-pole but there may be some other traditions or fables or conditions or who-knows... that are associated with the seasons of this open world.

 

Tabula Rasa!

[ocn]

I assume there's a certain element of "open for interpretation" here. And I think it should be, because that opens up a whole bunch of creative avenues. How do I implement this concept into my map? I would think that most of us look for a challenge rather than throw in some snow patches or lush green fields and leave it at that. It will be interesting to see what comes out of this, if it is left up to the author how to implement the seasons concept rather than give them a bunch of guidelines.

[Aprilsister]

All I know is that if a butterfly (or like-ish) model/animation/particle-effect thingy doesn't come out of this, the thing has been a complete failure.

 

[Springheel]

It will be interesting to see what comes out of this, if it is left up to the author how to implement the seasons concept rather than give them a bunch of guidelines

 

+1

[Baddcog]

All I know is that if a butterfly (or like-ish) model/animation/particle-effect thingy doesn't come out of this, the thing has been a complete failure.

 

 

There is already an animated butterfly/model/texture lurking in the files. (a Monarch to be exact)

 

However the implementation was 'questionable' at the time I we never really pinned down what to do with it.

 

ie: if it's a flying creature, then we still have to set up flying creatures (they are inDoom3, not TDM). That way it could random path, bump into things, like a rat. Lot's of work, little know how.

 

Or do I make it a 'non-flying creature'. ie: it's just like a rat, except it's always in the air, it is basically walking on the ground, but looks like it's floating. Collision might be weird. It could have random landing anims to cycle through.

this is stuff that was done before the rats, and not looked back into.

Probably the best choice.

Landing would always be on ground (probably no way to get perfect landing height /location for specific flowers/branches/etc..)

The problem with landing/take of anims is getting them to cycle in order, but random.

(ie: takes off, then only has choice of flying or landing, lands and only has choice to flap wings or take off (but not flight anim [flapping wings in air], once in air can't choose flap wings on ground or take off again, can only choose flight or land)

Rats just cycle ANY anim randomly.

 

Or, is it just an animated object (as it currently is). It has an aim (sitting on flower, flys up in circle, lands back on flower). I didn't like this option and at the time seemed like the only one.

The animation file was HUGE, and it was short and repetitive.

----------

 

So I guess the team should answer, finish it like a rat?

[Shadowhide]

you gonna talking forever guys