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Deadlove

Reverb on sounds

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I hope reverb will be a possibility in the future.

That was one of the most amazing features in the Thief games.


"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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I really hope Deadlove, or someone, has the time to release a package of sounds with reverb added. Reverb on sounds is as important as bump and specular maps on textures imho. Sure, it would be nice to have it coded but that seems to be a long way off and the current, dry sounds are, for me, the most distracting part of TDM. I've never found myself engrossed in the atmosphere as I have in the two original games/fan missions.

 

Also, I think there's a tendency in the team to stick to what is 'realistic' at the expense of a better gaming experience. Thief had an insane amount of reverb baked in to many of its sound files and it was all the better for it imho.

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I really hope Deadlove, or someone, has the time to release a package of sounds with reverb added. Reverb on sounds is as important as bump and specular maps on textures imho. Sure, it would be nice to have it coded but that seems to be a long way off and the current, dry sounds are, for me, the most distracting part of TDM. I've never found myself engrossed in the atmosphere as I have in the two original games/fan missions.

 

Also, I think there's a tendency in the team to stick to what is 'realistic' at the expense of a better gaming experience. Thief had an insane amount of reverb baked in to many of its sound files and it was all the better for it imho.

Very true. Thief wouldn't be Thief without the input of the genious that is, Eric Brosius.

Some of us may not notice it, but it probably acts uncounciously onto our mind somehow ;)


"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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I hope reverb will be a possibility in the future.

That was one of the most amazing features in the Thief games.

 

That`s not that easy.

As far as I know the Thief we all know & love has been build `twice`.

First the geometry-map . Then the level has been build a second time in cubes, which simulates the different reverberation-rooms.

LG developed a special tool for displaying both maps side by side.

Then if u enabled EAX, which amphasises the different reverbs u got the boombastic Thief-feeling [Eric Brosius awesome sounds]

 

I dunno exactly how it works in "dark radiant", but the sound-positioning in TDM is pretty good.

not that bold, than it was in Thief 1 & 2, but very good.

As mentioned in another thread, ther`es EFX-support coming up.

I think,we have to wait, til it`s implementation has been finished and look afterwards, what additional reverbs are useful, before

we all get what nobody wants: a total reverbal-super-palooza with no exact positionig.

Edited by vvGarrettvv

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I generally play with headphones on in stereo and the positional audio through stereo seems really good actually.

 

Maybe some of the environments could be a bit more reverby but I'm satisfied as it is until EFX comes along and in all honesty if that never happens, I don't personally think I'd miss it with the audio in its current state.

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An interesting conversation. Hopefully we can keep this going...

 

Here's a video of Thief Gold showing software sound, EAX 2.0 and OpenAL -

 

To jump straight to the 'I've been thinking, the Sir could really beef up security some...' conversation go to:

 

 

There's a definite enhancement with EAX and OpenAL but I think it shows the dry samples also had a fair bit of reverb wetness to them before any of that was applied. Making this compromise perhaps muddy'ed the sound with EAX but I think it was still worthy, and TDM can keep the dry samples if and when a solution can be implemented. What do you think?

 

 

I never had the opportunity to play Deadly Shadows with EAX but I just found a nice video that shows how awesome it is with a software to EAX comparison. TDS gets a lot of derision but does some things really well -

 

Deadlove - what are the chances of you running a batch of sounds through something to just add a generic reverb level?

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Rich, sadly, batch processing only works with conversion, and not effects. Different sounds require different amounts of verb, so what sounds good on one may be too much or too little for another.

 

Garrett, in regard to positioning, pretty much all the sounds I've come across so far from TDM are mono, so positioning is relative to the sound source, it doesn't affect the stereo field.

 

Mr. Mike, I intend to do all the sounds but it's going to take some time. I will indeed post for all to download and apply if they wish to.

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Rich, sadly, batch processing only works with conversion, and not effects. Different sounds require different amounts of verb, so what sounds good on one may be too much or too little for another.

 

Garrett, in regard to positioning, pretty much all the sounds I've come across so far from TDM are mono, so positioning is relative to the sound source, it doesn't affect the stereo field.

 

Mr. Mike, I intend to do all the sounds but it's going to take some time. I will indeed post for all to download and apply if they wish to.

 

all the more amazing, that I can allocate where the sound is coming from.

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Sounds have to be mono in order for you to target them. Stereo sounds (and there are a few) will play on all speakers at once.

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yes.I know.

["all the more amazing, that I can allocate where the sound is coming from."]

thats was more ironic :-)

I never sayed that the sounds sources are stereo mixed sources.

The sound engine does the positioning of the individual source (mono)

as far as I know. But what I mean is, that a too excessive final reverb is

1) complete unrealistic

2) makes it impossible to hear where f.e. a guard is walking

Sometimes I found the reverb in T1&2 too overemphazised. But

I love them though, more as a stylistic element.

I really love the TDM -sound as it is. It`s kindof realistic and more dry.

The ambience in TDM lived up to it`S purpose. After playing some minutes playing T4 til the gamebreaking

bug I stepped into, I aprreciate all the sounds even more than before :-) :-)

If there`s something I would change, it`s

the volume levels of the voices (guards) =higher

or dampening the steps of our Thief.

Edited by vvGarrettvv

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Well yes of course manually doing the work is ideal. But if we don't make concessions than this effort is no different than waiting for the implementation of EFX. I thought the whole point was that we didn't want to wait. We wanted reverb now.

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Well, I don't know the logistics of EFX, but I'd imagine that once it was written in the code, then the missions would all have to be tweaked for the areas/rooms to be responsive to the EFX. At least with the files, they can just be replaced in a directory and then they immediately work in all missions.

 

I'm going to continue to do the files manually, and post links as along the way that I go. I want to see best possible result, and also even though selfish, I want the game to sound better for me! :wub: Hopefully in due time more people will see the benefit in approaching it this way.

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Well, I don't know the logistics of EFX, but I'd imagine that once it was written in the code, then the missions would all have to be tweaked for the areas/rooms to be responsive to the EFX. At least with the files, they can just be replaced in a directory and then they immediately work in all missions.

 

I'm going to continue to do the files manually, and post links as along the way that I go. I want to see best possible result, and also even though selfish, I want the game to sound better for me! :wub: Hopefully in due time more people will see the benefit in approaching it this way.

 

Hi Deadlove, have you had any time to process more sounds? I'd be happy to help test if you need.

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Great news for everyone waiting for the reverberated sounds...

 

I've gotten a new tool to help get batch processing done and it work terrific! The only downside is I still have to manually rename all the files. After processing I have to listen to them to make sure they are sounding nice and purdy, and some of the files required editing (either cutting off the beginning where a lip smacking, breathing, tongue rustling, as the artifacts are much more present in these versions of the sounds. Also, the cleanliness of these version also brings out a bit of some of the background noise that was present in the initial recordings. I'm not very concerned about that though, as though things will be attributed to the environment once played within the game. This is the price we pay with labors of love, can't expect professional quality from all sides. I do have very high hopes for the sounds getting done now in at a much more rapid pace, I did the entire "jack" set in about 45 minutes, whereas before it took up to four hours per each character.

 

Also, now that I've ironed out a good method, I'm going to be redoing the player/grumbler/revenant to reflect this, so all sounds cohesive.Even though I think that those sets are really great sounding, I have a much better picture of the whole now and want to make sure everything fits together perfectly. I'll have the download link posted soon, and will send you a PM with it as well. Anyone else who wants, just keep a lookout in the sounds thread!

 

I also found a new method for creating an underwater effect and am using that on all the "drown" death sounds, so the sound actually sounds like it's underwater!

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HI, thanks for the link Deadlove. About to try it out in-game but I went through the file and compared a few to the original. Definitely improves the overall quality of the samples imho. If anything, it was maybe a bit too subtle, but I won't comment further until I hear it in-game.

 

How are you renaming files? If it's basic stuff then perhaps command prompt or Total Commander can help?

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As of now I'm manually renaming files, I have to chop off the end of each file that gets exported so it retains the original file name I started with.

 

Start with "cheekygit" and then after processing/exporting I have "cheekygit_DVRB01" or something like that and I have to manually delete the end part of every file.

 

Is there a program or something that can get rid of certain characters in all file names in a folder?

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And yes, the reverb and compression are much more subtle on these versions. But it is also dependent on the sound source, some voice sets are louder than others (as in real life some people talk louder than others) so those will have a bit more verb present.

 

I think it's best to go light with this as the main thing I'm trying to do is round out the sounds so that they aren't so dry. There is really only needed a small amount of reverb. I know that TDP/TMA has loads more verb baked in, but I view TDM as a different animal, and am taking that kind of approach. I can't predict where a mapper will put an AI and don't want to have some AI sounding like they're in a larger chamber if they are just in a small room.

 

With this type of approach, it will also be compatible once EFX is incorporated into the game as well. If I use too much verb it would sound extremely washed out (like TDP/TMA with EAX enabled) and that is not what I want to achieve at all. IMO I think TPD/TMA sound best without hardware acceleration. Also, I only play with headphones on in total dark........

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There's a lot of tools that will rename that for you but I used to use Total Commander to do that sort of thing. There's a rename panel in Total Commander that's fairly simple to use but give me a PM if you need help.

 

I just went through the new fan mission where you start in a sewer and have to rob some house. Can't recall the name but unfortunately I don't think I heard the guard vocals you replaced. One thing playing that mission did highlight though is how poor TDM handles a player in water. The samples aren't the best but the main problem seems to be sounds are cut off as soon as the next one is called. When you're walking in water this gives a very jarring and poor impression. Definitely one for the 'things that can be improved' thread.

 

Is there a fan mission where you know the sound files you made will be used? I'll fire up Tears of Lucia and try there.

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Business as usual has the jack voice set for both guards in the sewers if you noclip you can get to them easy. They are in a room in the sewers, it's got candles and some loot in it. I used that to test with notarget on/off etc.

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There's a lot of tools that will rename that for you but I used to use Total Commander to do that sort of thing. There's a rename panel in Total Commander that's fairly simple to use but give me a PM if you need help.

 

Thanks! This is just what I needed in one click all the file names were changed! THANKS!!!!!!

 

Edit: it took a couple clicks to set up what directory and how to change, but then one click changed it all :wub:

Edited by Deadlove

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The volumes of sounds depend not just on the source but also on the sound shader. If you're altering the volume of the original sound it may change the volume in unexpected ways, which is generally undesirable.

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The volume change is very small, I'm only mentioning it because it is part of the processing, but to most ears, they probably won't even hear a difference in overall volume. The same with reverb, it's much more gentle this time around as I've gotten a better grasp on making it work well.

 

What do you mean about sound shaders? Example as in a shader can be put on a machine with a machine sound but the shader can be defined to make the sound louder or lower than the original source volume? Is that a correct understanding?

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What do you mean about sound shaders? Example as in a shader can be put on a machine with a machine sound but the shader can be defined to make the sound louder or lower than the original source volume? Is that a correct understanding?

 

Basically, yes.

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