duzenko Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 Is it something we want to add to the engine?https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtournament/forums/filedata/fetch?id=343728If so, does it need to be per material or per entity? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooks Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 Judith actually hacked together a kind of rim light consisting of a radial gradient texture on a cubemap (IIRC), I'm sure he can re-post his steps here. In general I've always found the Deadly Shadows rim light frob highlighting a bit better, but even if you undertook the task of find & replacing all the old frob highlight code in the materials, I can't think of anything else that would benefit from something like that ATM. Quote My FMs: The King of Diamonds (2016) | Visit my Mapbook thread sometimes! | Read my tutorial on Image-Based Lighting Workflows for TDM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_spy Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 (edited) Is it something we want to add to the engine?https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtournament/forums/filedata/fetch?id=343728If so, does it need to be per material or per entity? Hell yes! Some kind of fresnel function would be great to have, I wanted to do a frobbing shader that would look like that, but it could have other uses too. This should be defined by material IMO. Edited September 30, 2018 by Judith Quote Misc. assets for TDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbohr1more Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 ??? The HDR light post process includes rim lighting: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/10518-id-like-to-contribute-my-hdr-implementation/ Did that get removed? Quote Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod: http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod (Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duzenko Posted September 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 ??? The HDR light post process includes rim lighting: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/10518-id-like-to-contribute-my-hdr-implementation/ Did that get removed?I never noticed it. Can you see that with ARB shaders? GLSL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbohr1more Posted September 30, 2018 Report Share Posted September 30, 2018 I'll double check when I get home. Here is a screen from 1.03: The highlighting on the normal map on the left wall is influenced by rim lighting. Whether we do too much or not enough is an open question. As well as whether we should give more control of this aspect to mappers. Quote Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod: http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod (Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbohr1more Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 OK I tested tonight: Left Image = 2.06 GLSL Default Interaction Shader (No Rim lighting) Middle Image = 2.06 GLSL Enhanced Interaction (Rim lighting on the barrel closest to candle) Right Image = 2.04 ARB Enhanced Interaction shader (Rim lighting on the barrel closest to the candle) Quote Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod: http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod (Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbohr1more Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 Now, whether we also want something extreme like the first (top post) screenshot is another question. Judith made a custom cubemap material for frob that matches that look: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/18990-custom-frob-idea/ Do we really need a custom GLSL program to do this when we can do it already (albeit less efficiently)? Quote Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod: http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod (Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_spy Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) Do we really need a custom GLSL program to do this when we can do it already (albeit less efficiently)? Yes, to control it in more meaningful manner and without using lights.The shader I made often goes through the whole model: While Duzenko is talking about something like this:https://api.unrealengine.com/udk/Three/MaterialsCompendium.html#DotProducthttps://api.unrealengine.com/udk/Three/MaterialsCompendium.html#Fresnel And that can be used for things like frob outline, force fields, but also for stuff like metals or transparent glass. Edited October 1, 2018 by Judith Quote Misc. assets for TDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_spy Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 This is something we could achieve with dot product/fresnel, a more elegant frob: 2 Quote Misc. assets for TDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMart Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 Rim lighting is not only good to make a better frob highlighting like Judith showed but can also give characters well more character, by making them stand out from the background, Valve for example used it for good effect on all their games since HL2. https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DavidRosen/20091103/85835/Character_Rim_Lighting.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duzenko Posted October 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 Can we sort out the terms here.I was talking about the ambient silhouette highlighting from all sides, not that "specular" stuff from the point light direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_spy Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) Rim lighting is not only good to make a better frob highlighting like Judith showed but can also give characters well more character, by making them stand out from the background, Valve for example used it for good effect on all their games since HL2. https://www.gamasutr...im_Lighting.php Yup, rim shaders are often used to separate characters from the environment a bit, or to differentiate friend/foe teams in coop games. I was talking about the ambient silhouette highlighting from all sides, not that "specular" stuff from the point light direction. That's how I understood it, fresnel effect from in engine lighting is a different thing. Edited October 1, 2018 by Judith Quote Misc. assets for TDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMart Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 Can we sort out the terms here.I was talking about the ambient silhouette highlighting from all sides, not that "specular" stuff from the point light direction. That is also rim lighting, it is a term for a particular effect "Rim lighting is a light that typically comes from beside or behind your subject", Valve just used specular to do it in that case. Search for rim lighting on google you will see the picture bellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_spy Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 @Duzenko, do you plan on working on this? IMO that would be pretty useful shader to have. Quote Misc. assets for TDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duzenko Posted December 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 @Duzenko, do you plan on working on this? IMO that would be pretty useful shader to have.Yes, I just need to be poked every so often so I remember that it's something useful for mappers/players What's the consensus on controlling this effect? Material flag / entity spawn arg / etc? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_spy Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Material flag seems right. The input will be a color or a texture (normalmap?), and the fresnel effect would need some kind of exponent value. Something similar to this: https://api.unrealengine.com/udk/Three/MaterialsCompendium.html#Fresnel Edited December 4, 2018 by Judith Quote Misc. assets for TDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duzenko Posted December 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 Material flag seems right. The input will be a color or a texture (normalmap?), and the fresnel effect would need some kind of exponent value. Something similar to this: https://api.unrealengine.com/udk/Three/MaterialsCompendium.html#FresnelWe're talking ambient lights here, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_spy Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Um, no, model / geometry materials. Edited December 4, 2018 by Judith Quote Misc. assets for TDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duzenko Posted December 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 Um, no, model / geometry materials.Right But the this rim highlight should only appear as a component of ambient light interactions, no? Because we already have some fresnel in the point light interactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_spy Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 Yeah, it will be a fake rim light, independent of a light source. Probably the most common use will be the blend add mode. Quote Misc. assets for TDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duzenko Posted December 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 Yeah, it will be a fake rim light, independent of a light source. Probably the most common use will be the blend add mode.Independent of light source meaning a separate material stage resulting in one more draw call and needing a new GLSL shader?Or rather a parameter for the ambient light interaction that adds brightness on visible rims when doing our existing ambient light interactions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_spy Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 I think that separate material stage will be more versatile, as you can use different blend modes, textures, and such. Quote Misc. assets for TDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duzenko Posted December 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 I think that separate material stage will be more versatile, as you can use different blend modes, textures, and such.In that case we might as well use the new custom material shader I've added recentlyDo you have a test map for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_spy Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Here it goes: https://we.tl/t-XIAHMSqMhI Let's start with a test sphere that is translucent white and two sided, and try to make it look like this (ignore the stuff on the right side): Basic material for the sphere is: textures/frestest/models/sphere { translucent twosided nonsolid qer_editorimage textures/frestest/models/sphere_d diffusemap textures/frestest/models/sphere_d // TDM Ambient Method Related { if (global5 == 1) blend add map textures/frestest/models/sphere_d scale 1, 1 red global2 green global3 blue global4 } } Edited December 4, 2018 by Judith Quote Misc. assets for TDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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