Hidden Hands: Blood & Metal (Campaign) - 01.09.2024

[MirceaKitsune]

Reaching the last map: Now I'm sad it's going to be over soon. But at least I'll surely enjoy something unexpected

Spoiler

Ended up riding Jonas elevator without disabling the camera and turret guarding it. Apparently I needed two printed circuit boards to turn it off: I had 4 or 5, but for some reason none matched the upper socket and I couldn't find any more of them. Had to press one digit, run and hide from the camera till it lost track of me, repeat.

Obviously I'm betting Jonas screwed something up and I'm going to find everyone (un)dead and stuff. That seems most likely, of course I expect to be surprised by something I haven't thought of once I get to the 5th level.

 

[MirceaKitsune]

Finished it. This was so much more incredible than anything I expected! Especially the last level, that was something else.

Spoiler

I see Jonus was using a keypad for some of his doors. Happy to say I'm... honored to have helped him a little with inventing that one. Didn't know he was such a cool guy till meeting him up close, even if just a bit greedy and maybe not looking out for his employees as well as he could.

The last map felt like DeusEx - Area 51 on steroids. Like really... when I removed the white crystals and climbed the stair to destroy the brain, it felt I was going there to merge with the AI not to destroy it... almost wish that was a secret option to make Jonus roll his eyes at

The facility was so large and complex, nothing done before in TDM. It could almost get boring, if not for the conversations between Jonus and the AI. AI, then gray aliens... finally we get to ride the monorail out of Jonus's personal Black Mesa. Wonder what the ending dialogue is if you leave Desmond behind, not gonna replay just to check that especially since it seems sad, but having that as an optional outcome was another interesting touch.

As a final idea: Think we could put that radio model in vanilla TDM? It fits perfectly and could definitely be used in other FM's. Maybe have some fitting ambient songs that can be looped with it?

Edited December 5, 2024 by MirceaKitsune

[JackFarmer]

On 12/5/2024 at 4:55 AM, MirceaKitsune said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I see Jonus was using a keypad for some of his doors. Happy to say I'm... honored to have helped him a little with inventing that one. Didn't know he was such a cool guy till meeting him up close, even if just a bit greedy and maybe not looking out for his employees as well as he could.

The last map felt like DeusEx - Area 51 on steroids. Like really... when I removed the white crystals and climbed the stair to destroy the brain, it felt I was going there to merge with the AI not to destroy it... almost wish that was a secret option to make Jonus roll his eyes at

The facility was so large and complex, nothing done before in TDM. It could almost get boring, if not for the conversations between Jonus and the AI. AI, then gray aliens... finally we get to ride the monorail out of Jonus's personal Black Mesa. Wonder what the ending dialogue is if you leave Desmond behind, not gonna replay just to check that especially since it seems sad, but having that as an optional outcome was another interesting touch.

As a final idea: Think we could put that radio model in vanilla TDM? It fits perfectly and could definitely be used in other FM's. Maybe have some fitting ambient songs that can be looped with it?

Dragofer will add an improved entity to the core game.

[TerrificTom]

Absolutely epic campaign so far. 

I have come up stuck. I've found Desmond in Mission 5, and gone into the cutscene. However, I never get control back over the character. Desmond simply begins to walk around and bumps into me, pushing me around. But I never get control back.

[JackFarmer]

7 hours ago, TerrificTom said:

Absolutely epic campaign so far. 

I have come up stuck. I've found Desmond in Mission 5, and gone into the cutscene. However, I never get control back over the character. Desmond simply begins to walk around and bumps into me, pushing me around. But I never get control back.

I am afraid this is a rare bug that did not show up during beta (another player reported the problem here).

I can provide you with a workaround, however, that requires two things:

1. You need a working save game (best would be a save game as close to mission end as possible) of mission 4.

2. You need to replace an in game file within the pk4/zip folder.

If that does not work for you, I can provide you with a save game the continues AFTER the conversation in question.  Then please let me know about your inventory (then I will make sure that you have ca. the same resources as you had before the problem), and what you have done so far (I anticipate you have not been to the "deep  tower" till now?) and the mission version number you are playing under.

 

Edited December 23, 2024 by JackFarmer

[JackFarmer]

double post

Edited December 23, 2024 by JackFarmer

[roygato]

First of all, kudos for creating a campaign. Understandably we don't get very many of these.

In general the missions are fun to play, as I'd expect based on the earlier ones in the series, so I don't have a whole lot of meaningful critique for gameplay, but I do have something that bothered me, which is flavor-related. I skimmed through this thread, and didn't see it being brought up yet.

Spoiler

"Find three special locations (Reward X loot)"

I have a few issues with this kind of objective design. First of all, it has that immersion-breaking quality that Thief 3 also had. Aside from all its other shortcomings, what I particularly disliked was how they did away with the thematically appropriate objective descriptions from the earlier games. In T1/2, you have something like

"I've heard of this fabled item Y being hidden somewhere within these halls. I should find it"

But in T3, they just got lazy with this kind of

"Find X special loot objects"

These special location objectives instantly gave me that T3 vibe - too gamified, and none of that T1/2 immersion. Considering these are seemingly random locations, I think they could've just been regular secrets, with nice loot stashed inside as the reward. It's even stranger in the first mission with its "Break into all the rooms" objective. I don't think you need to tell TDM/Thief players to break into locked rooms like this, I reckon they're compelled to do so anyway. Just have an appropriate reward waiting, if the process is something more involved.

The other thing is having a loot reward for an objective at all. It can work, but only if there is an in-world reason for the thief to receive money then and there. But simply breaking into a bunch of rooms, and having money appear in your pocket, doesn't really fit that. Not to mention, if your objective is to steal stuff from someone's chest, surely the contents of the chest should be the reward, and there would be no need for an additional one.

Another immersion-related oddity that stuck out

Spoiler

When descending the elevator between missions 4 and 5, who is selling you items along the way? I understand the shop was put there presumably because all the other missions had one, and to let the player gear up before arguably the hardest mission, but I couldn't help but find it bizarre. Maybe instead either the guild office, of the underground lab, could've had a storage room with equipment that the player could find. Have more/less items based on difficulty.

Finally, and this might just be an incredible nitpick.

Spoiler

I wonder if having the interactivity of certain items be tied to certain conditions would make sense with these puzzles that require the player to collect strange objects. Of course, it's an adventure game staple, to collect random garbage for no reason, but it just came to mind, since we don't get these kinds of puzzles very often. I suppose it would come with the drawback of requiring the player to possibly re-search a bunch of places they've already been in, so I dunno if the immersive quality would be worth the hassle. Not a big deal in any case.

I also found an amusing bug, dunno if it's known already.

Spoiler

If you scare Jonus and Desmond before the final cutscene starts (like shoot a fire arrow near them), they'll just run off, and the cutscene will play without any characters or audio. The mission will conclude just fine, though.

Of course, at first I tried blasting them directly, but sadly this fails the mission.

But as I prefaced this post with, I really did have fun. I enjoyed the variety of locations, and the final mission in particular feels like straight out of some other notable immersive sims, which was cool.

Edited January 4 by roygato

[PsymH]

Mission 1: I have the feeling that I'm going round in circles. Where can I actually find the safe with the combination of the paintings with the sea battles? I've already walked up and down the inn, but haven't found a combination lock yet.

[JackFarmer]

13 hours ago, PsymH said:

Mission 1: I have the feeling that I'm going round in circles. Where can I actually find the safe with the combination of the paintings with the sea battles? I've already walked up and down the inn, but haven't found a combination lock yet.

Spoiler

In Room 3 you will find a readable with a clue explaining how to find the correct numbers.

 

[PsymH]

@JackFarmer Thank you for your reply. I must have been unclear. I was already in room 3 and found the diary, so I know where to find the numbers. I have now found the number box in the cellar, but I can't use it. There's a note next to it that says: “For security reasons, the code can only be entered with the camera activated.”
You wrote in the Discord that you have to use a screen to do this. But where is the screen?

Edited January 13 by PsymH

[STRUNK]

@PsymH

Spoiler

When you stand in front of the door with the numlock and the note, go back and keep going right where you can, after a few corners you will enter the room with the screen.

 

 

Edited January 13 by STRUNK

[Thiefette]

So finished this up on the weekend and missions 1-4 were enjoyable with just the right amount of challenge

Spoiler

In Mission 3, I had some difficulty figuring out the head placement. I had already put out all the fires, which did nothing, and had put off the head placement as I didn't want to summon some demon to fight. Anyways, got that sorted and put out the fire again and then I couldn't get in the circle. So went up top and did a slow drop, not sure if that was the way or not but it worked, only to find I had a hard time getting out. Eventually found a sweet spot but it left me a little frustrated.

Mission 5 was a struggle for me. After receiving the objective to find Jonas, I was going down a hallway with no doors nearby and I just "transported" into where ever he was. He gave me verbal instructions and sent me on my way to find the crystals. Upon finding the first one I couldn't remember what he'd said and thought I was to take the crystal. But it was now in a box so I ran around looking for a way to open it. Thought maybe it had something to do with the switch in the vent. Nope.  I could of really used some written instruction here that I could check in my inventory. As it was, I had to load a previous save and return to Jonas to write it down for myself. He hadn't really said to take it, my bad,  so I just continued on. Frustration eased. I did notice as I continued that my objections changed to what his instructions were so all was good and I was able to finish.
Couple questions:

What did the switch in the vents do? The vent with the electricity on the way to the crystal.

Where did the locked door in the gondola room go? Did I miss something?

.Thank you for all your hard work. I look forward to more missions from you. 

[datiswous]

On 12/1/2024 at 1:11 PM, High John said:

But with automatons, your options are limited.

I think they are easier to fight with a sword. At least this was my experience in HH4, so I don't know for sure.

[PsymH]

@STRUNK Many thanks. Somehow I must be blind or I didn't recognize that as a camera screen. Now I'm in mission 2. That's looks very promising with pagans and caves.

[PsymH]

Still in mission 2. What I have to do with the three skulls to unlock the 3 rings over Belmond's head?

[JackFarmer]

1 hour ago, PsymH said:

Still in mission 2. What I have to do with the three skulls to unlock the 3 rings over Belmond's head?

Spoiler

You have to place them correctly in the middle of the room on certain round shaped objects.

 

[JackFarmer]

On 1/4/2025 at 7:37 PM, roygato said:

First of all, kudos for creating a campaign. Understandably we don't get very many of these.

In general the missions are fun to play, as I'd expect based on the earlier ones in the series, so I don't have a whole lot of meaningful critique for gameplay, but I do have something that bothered me, which is flavor-related. I skimmed through this thread, and didn't see it being brought up yet.

  Reveal hidden contents

"Find three special locations (Reward X loot)"

I have a few issues with this kind of objective design. First of all, it has that immersion-breaking quality that Thief 3 also had. Aside from all its other shortcomings, what I particularly disliked was how they did away with the thematically appropriate objective descriptions from the earlier games. In T1/2, you have something like

"I've heard of this fabled item Y being hidden somewhere within these halls. I should find it"

But in T3, they just got lazy with this kind of

"Find X special loot objects"

These special location objectives instantly gave me that T3 vibe - too gamified, and none of that T1/2 immersion. Considering these are seemingly random locations, I think they could've just been regular secrets, with nice loot stashed inside as the reward. It's even stranger in the first mission with its "Break into all the rooms" objective. I don't think you need to tell TDM/Thief players to break into locked rooms like this, I reckon they're compelled to do so anyway. Just have an appropriate reward waiting, if the process is something more involved.

The other thing is having a loot reward for an objective at all. It can work, but only if there is an in-world reason for the thief to receive money then and there. But simply breaking into a bunch of rooms, and having money appear in your pocket, doesn't really fit that. Not to mention, if your objective is to steal stuff from someone's chest, surely the contents of the chest should be the reward, and there would be no need for an additional one.

Another immersion-related oddity that stuck out

  Reveal hidden contents

When descending the elevator between missions 4 and 5, who is selling you items along the way? I understand the shop was put there presumably because all the other missions had one, and to let the player gear up before arguably the hardest mission, but I couldn't help but find it bizarre. Maybe instead either the guild office, of the underground lab, could've had a storage room with equipment that the player could find. Have more/less items based on difficulty.

Finally, and this might just be an incredible nitpick.

  Reveal hidden contents

I wonder if having the interactivity of certain items be tied to certain conditions would make sense with these puzzles that require the player to collect strange objects. Of course, it's an adventure game staple, to collect random garbage for no reason, but it just came to mind, since we don't get these kinds of puzzles very often. I suppose it would come with the drawback of requiring the player to possibly re-search a bunch of places they've already been in, so I dunno if the immersive quality would be worth the hassle. Not a big deal in any case.

I also found an amusing bug, dunno if it's known already.

  Reveal hidden contents

If you scare Jonus and Desmond before the final cutscene starts (like shoot a fire arrow near them), they'll just run off, and the cutscene will play without any characters or audio. The mission will conclude just fine, though.

Of course, at first I tried blasting them directly, but sadly this fails the mission.

But as I prefaced this post with, I really did have fun. I enjoyed the variety of locations, and the final mission in particular feels like straight out of some other notable immersive sims, which was cool.

Yeah, the shop after mission 4 is a convention.
Regarding your amusing bug: A future update will include a script event that hinders the player to do what you have done.