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The New Info On The Front Page...


Arumakani

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Does this mean the tools are going to be released soon?

The beta picture, the second one from the left is not loading up when clicked?

Who is leaving the team?

ZylonBane's confession about himself:

"What can I say, I'm a jerk. A three times all American Jerk, from Jerksville, Kentucky. Yee Haw"

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Does this mean the tools are going to be released soon?

 

No, definately not soon...the update simply meant that we don't want to be working on this until 2010. I think we're tentatively on track for a 2008 release of version 1.0 of the toolkit. Of course, that could come sooner...just depends on how much more help we get in the coming months.

 

Who is leaving the team?

 

Nobody is leaving the team. The update said that after the 1.0 release, some of us will stay to work on a campaign while others will move on.

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Who's handling the actual campaign?

 

Nobody at the moment, the campaign isn't being touched until we have a working toolset. When the toolset is in a near feature complete state, we may be able to assign some team members to start working on it. Until then, our primary focus is the toolset.

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I know you guys have probably already talked about it, but what it sounds like is that the easiest stuff to postpone are the non-essential, labor-intensive, discrete stuff like specific AI, textures, objects, ambients that are relatively easy to add to the package piecemeal ... and it's the core mechanics, and some core AI, textures, and objects that will come out in release 1.0.

 

Well, it sounds like a reasonable plan, like out-sourcing labor-intensive stuff to the community post-release. I'd also think you really want to get the core mechanics down as tightly as possible before the first release.

 

Anyway, I don't think I'm making any new revelation, but just thinking aloud for the sake of the public forum.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Speaking of team members leaving--well, I read this earlier on the defunct awesome express forum (and how horrible it was...). Someone was quoting oDDity for whatever reason and it was said that he was no longer on the team, so that quoting him wouldn't reflect the team's opinions regardless, although an individual's opinions wouldn't reflect the team's anyway. I was curious though, is this true?

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Speaking of team members leaving--well, I read this earlier on the defunct awesome express forum (and how horrible it was...). Someone was quoting oDDity for whatever reason and it was said that he was no longer on the team, so that quoting him wouldn't reflect the team's opinions regardless, although an individual's opinions wouldn't reflect the team's anyway. I was curious though, is this true?

 

Yes, oDDity is no longer actively making models for us as an official Team Member. He has moved on to some other projects so he can continue to push himself in new directions, as an artist of his skill should. His membership is still active however as he may contribute a model here and there in the future and he left us with his character templates so that all of our future models will still fit with the rest of the characters.

 

As for 'individual opinion' not speaking for the team, that has always been in place. It's far too easy for someone in the community to say, "I HATE that mod because 'such and somebody' said something sucks...so the entire team must feel that way". Unless we voted on something in our development forums, it certainly wouldn't be considered a "Team Stance". Heh...even then, it's only the opinion favored by the majority of the vote. So, you see...there is never really any hardcore team opinion and it drives me NUTS when people base a ridiculous argument on something like that.

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Well, as an individual, an observer and frequenter to the forums not in anyway associated with the team, it's sad that there are so many simple minded people out there. It's most often not even the issue at hand that gets them in a tizzy. They just enjoy vehemently playing opposition simply because they know it will drive you crazy.

 

I'm actually glad to see he is a free spirit. It kind of fits the personality I've seen him as portrayed on the forums. I wish him luck in the future and hope he can continue pushing forward.

Edited by Ombrenuit
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I also thought that line meant someone was leaving the team right now! I think "At this point" would be more clear if it was "At that point" instead. Not a big deal though, at all.

 

What if that first version was a "beta version 0.90" so that the call to the community to help with textures/models/etc can be a "Help make the full 1.0 version, be a part of history!" type thing? Just a brainstorm

shadowdark50.gif keep50.gif
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I think it would be much better to be more liberal with the Beta-Mapping position as it gets closer to release.

 

Public-betas are bad ideas, esp with something like this, because people will treat the release as if it's a finished product (warning or not), and it just isn't finished, and shouldn't get any notion of being "public" until all the core stuff is in, IMHO.

 

But I think, as I just said, it may be a good idea near release time to start letting even newbie mappers try out the system as a beta-mapper, (esp if they have a nice full Komag tut to guide them by then ;) ) just to see if there are any issues from their perspective.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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But I think, as I just said, it may be a good idea near release time to start letting even newbie mappers try out the system as a beta-mapper, (esp if they have a nice full Komag tut to guide them by then ;) ) just to see if there are any issues from their perspective.

 

We will likely be in a better position to do that, when we are close to release, but for now...we need experienced Dromed and T3Ed users to let us know what they need...what they have always wanted to see in a Thief editor...etc. If people simply decide to 'wait'..then they're going to miss an amazing opportunity to help guide the very future of their FM needs. I just don't understand why some have been so reluctant to even come over and try Dark Radiant at the very least.

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I'm curious to know how the reasons for the vast differences in quality between beta-mappers. No offence, but I find a huge difference in quality between this screenshot and this one. Is it just a matter of skill that the Doom 3 engine requires? Is it really that difficult to make things look reasonably realistic?

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I have had an idea percolating in my head for a while but with the announcement on the front page I think Ill give it a whirl. As many of you know, I've been slowly learning LW8, with the intention of contributing to the project if and when my stuff pasts muster. I purchased "Inside LW8" and its a great help, but I get the feeling from reading it that its going to take a while before I can make any sort of real contribution. There is so much to learn, and so many ways to make a mistake. Its very sequential learning, one thing depending upon the last thing learned, and its frustrating to spend two hours trying to make handles for a chalice only to find out you have done it utterly wrong and must erase and restart. Also, RL keeps sneaking in and dragging me off. For one thing, I will be starting my own research and writing project in the coming months with an eye towards writing a small book in the next year or so. Im also looking to take on a P/T job to generate much needed revenue for our household. You get the idea. That being said, I still am hot to help out the Mod, and now it seems it needs help more than ever vis a vis H

 

Ok, so my point is this: Using the Net, voice messaging, screenshots, emails, passenger pigeons and the Psychic Friends Network, I propose that we attempt to start a TDM Online Design Academy. I imagine it thusly:

 

Tonights class is making basic cups. Someone who is actually able to make a goddamned cup in LW without having an aneurysm (i.e. not me!) will lead a small chat discussion while simultaneously assisting a group of students to make said cup. The real time advice and information would be +invaluable+ to a newbie such as myself. Tutorials are fine, manuals are fine, but neither of them can tell you "Stop, dont do it that way, heres a better way..." in a split second. Mistakes can be caught ASAP and progress can be made in a night, instead of two weeks of trial and error.

 

 

Now the biggest critique I foresee is the time. Who the hell has time for all that? Well, as a teacher, I can tell you all from firsthand experience that an hour spent teaching three people can save you a day down the road. Getting a crew of capable if not masterly designers could conceivably speed up the production fo the smaller, less complex items and free up time for the big shots to do their thing with the hard stuff. Ok, anyway, thats the basic idea, comments?

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I just don't understand why some have been so reluctant to even come over and try Dark Radiant at the very least.

Indeed.

 

My first optimistic guess would be the majority are still very much into Thief; but, hey so am I, and I'm here, trying to learn new things so I can contribute whatever I can - you can do both.

First pessimistic guess would be that they're all lazy and want a finished product handed to them.

 

Guess what folks: the second one ain't gonna happen. :P The more people help, the quicker it's done, and likely the better it will be. If we have to do it all alone, it's going to trickle along at a snail's pace and be very limited on release. Don't like it? Contribute.

 

Is it really that difficult to make things look reasonably realistic?

You've seen Doom3, right? ;)

http://www.counterfrag.com/screenshots/doom%203/1.jpg

 

Of the two you linked, I'm not sure which you prefer. I'd be inclined to say one is "more realistic", as in, looking real (the hallway), while the other is "aesthetically better", as in more pleasing to look at (the chapel scene).

 

Both shots are old (one more so than the other, and was no more than a 15 minute mapping lesson from a concept drawing which was later used to design some textures; it shouldn't even be on the website - we have better looking stuff to show than that!), but yes of course what comes out of DoomEd will depend on the author.

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Would it actually be possible to create a mission from what is available at the moment?

 

We've been saying this from the beginning, you can make a mission in Doom 3 if you want to, you just won't be able to do things as easily as you could in a finished product.

 

To answer your question directly, yes...you could certainly make a mission from what is available. Sparhawk has been saying this for a few months now..I have mentioned it too..just don't expect it to be anywhere near what a finished product would play like. The AI are still infants, but we have a stim/ response system, we have an objective system...doom 3 scripting is quite robust...so with some tinkering in there, you can do almost anything as well. We have rope arrows that work, noise arrows, gas arrows...even vine and moss shouldn't be too far down the road.

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Closer to the release we'll have a public vote for how many stitches people want to see on it as well.

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I like that blackjack one, it looks ace. All Black Thief's stuff and the others, Dram etc are really good. I like that brick wall and the rug in spitter's pic.

ZylonBane's confession about himself:

"What can I say, I'm a jerk. A three times all American Jerk, from Jerksville, Kentucky. Yee Haw"

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Yeah the hallway is very old (as should be evident... it's just a hallway :P). It started out as a concept piece, I believe by kfmcall (his stuff is simply incredible, you'd have to see to believe them... maybe we have some on the site?), then I said 'hey that looks nice and simple, I can do that' and threw it together (didn't even know what a patch was at that time), and then later, BlackThief used it to design the textures seen on it.

 

At least that's how I think it went. :huh: Although I have no full maps at this time (far from it), I mean to update at least my selection with a few better shots. I'd be inclined to show some WIP stuff too - I have a couple of early castle scenes which are becoming more likely abandoned by the day - but I've learned the result of that all too well. The public (and hell, even the team) are not very forgiving of WIP stuff. ;)

 

Edit: yep, some of kfm's stuff is in the gallery. *drool*

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