New Character Models

[Springheel]

I've had some reservations for a while about some of our AI models. Oddity's models are so excellent that the other models simply can't stand next to them without looking bad. The difference in quality is just too great. While models like the nobleman or townsfolk might look ok in another game, when you put them next to one of Oddity's characters, they stick out like a sore thumb.

 

I still don't have anywhere near enough modeling experience to create characters from scratch, but I've gotten pretty proficient at cutting, pasting and tweaking models that already exist. Going back over the 'templates' thread from a while ago, and remembering Ascottk's suggestion of cutting and pasting body parts, I went ahead to see what I could do.

 

It turns out that the modeling isn't actually that bad. With access to all of Oddity's models, it isn't too difficult to cut, paste, and modify existing pieces to create a lot of new characters. Altering the UV maps and textures is actually turning out to be the most time-consuming bit, but I've had enough practice making character skins so I know what I'm doing there.

 

I've already created a new nobleman character (below) and have modelled a blacksmith, tavern-keeper and generic townsfolk (all of which need texturing). These will eventually need to be rigged, obviously, but by next summer, if no one else has stepped up to do it, I'll see if I can learn that as well.

 

Here's an example of the new nobleman character (the head is just the priest head stuck on, and there are a few texture tweaks needed). Compared to the old one on the left, I think it's clear that using Odd's models as a template is the way to go. I've made enough changes that, though it looks good next to an Oddity model, no one is going to think it looks just like a copy of another character.

 

 

Another benefit is that I can add lots of accessories that can be swapped in and out with nodraw skins, and I can split up the meshes so that it is easy to use .rgb entries to create a lot of variety without the need for extra texture files.

 

Once these new ones are rigged (which might not be until next year) I'd like to eventually replace the non-Oddity character models.

[Springheel]

Here's an example of how easy it is to make different versions. I just picked three random wallpaper textures and swapped the regular diffusemap for the tunic mesh with the wallpaper diffuse. Presto, instant new skins, no new textures necessary. This took about five minutes. There are plenty of other wallpaper textures that would no doubt work well, as well as some vase textures. Imagine this with swappable heads, and you can envision how much variety could be gained easily with this one model.

 

[New Horizon]

That's really cool Spring. I especially like the blue one.

[sparhawk]

Cool!

[Springheel]

That's really cool Spring. I especially like the blue one.

 

Yeah, I think this is pretty cool, and will make things SO much easier for mappers. Mappers won't have to be texture artists in order to make new skins now--they can just find a diffuse they like and cut and paste a new material entry.

 

Some of those examples are probably a little too saturated...it would be pretty easy to add some rgb keywords to the diffusemap to tone it down a bit.

 

The same thing can be done to the belt or to the shoulder pads, as they're separate meshes too. The legs are all one mesh...I could potentially separate them into pieces too, but I'm not sure there's as much need for them to be different colours.

 

Right now I'm working on the engineer/blacksmith, so I should have something new to post in a week or so.

[New Horizon]

Once you have a good work flow under your belt, we'll have to wikify it.

[NeonsStyle]

Wow, thats amazing. I always thought that would be alot more complicated. Thats great job. Your right though about saturation. Could do with some grubby types too for the other areas... like the plague ward etc... I don't know if the mages are done, but in my imagination they have capes... though that'd be very difficult I'm sure, cause everyone would want the cape animated which is a big ask I suppose.

 

Great work... can always use more models in my maps

 

Ven

[New Horizon]

I thought oDDity did work up a Mage model...I could be wrong though.

 

Edit:

 

Don't know if we have the model...but here it is.

 

[Springheel]

Could do with some grubby types too for the other areas... like the plague ward etc.

 

I don't think you'd find many nobles in the plague ward.... We will definitely have grubby townsfolk though.

 

Don't know if we have the model...but here it is.

 

Yes, I have the model. It needs a little bit of work, like legs attached and so forth, but I'll be able to do that now.

[Baddcog]

Yeah NH!!! That dude is sick, gives me the creeps one the menu screen. He's so menacing. I wouldn't wanna run into him in a dark alley ya know.

 

I actually like a robe better than a cape for mages.

 

A cape should be doable, maybe several ways. I made one for Morrowind that is 'physiqued' to flow with the body. basically they attach to the skeleton of the ai. This sounds similar to how the heads are attached in DR, but DR might allow us to attach more items as we don't need to replace body parts that are hard coded. This cloak uses the left ankle slot so the player can still have a shirt/torso, paldrons, bracers, ect...

 

Anyway, the heads for DR use bones that are named the same as what they replace. ie:the head bone of the ai's body matches the head bone of the head model. But the head model also has bones for all the eye functions, mouth functions, ect...

 

So why wouldn't it be possible to have a head model with a cape attached. The cape could have sub bones so that it moves around the ai. Possibly with an af it could have pretty good physics, although it might take alot of time, might not be worth the trouble at this stage.

[Ishtvan]

Those all look great! One concern about adding a lot of separate meshes though, there was some concern that it would impact rendering performance. We did a test and there was a slight hit with 4 separate meshes vs. 1 on basic sphere shapes, so we probably want to avoid having something like 10 meshes on an AI. You could test it by putting in enough of them to bring down frame rate some, then comparing performance as you add more separate meshes.

[Springheel]

Yeah NH!!! That dude is sick, gives me the creeps one the menu screen. He's so menacing

 

Remember that's the hi-poly render. He won't look that good in-game.

 

One concern about adding a lot of separate meshes though, there was some concern that it would impact rendering performance. We did a test and there was a slight hit with 4 separate meshes vs. 1 on basic sphere shapes, so we probably want to avoid having something like 10 meshes on an AI. You could test it by putting in enough of them to bring down frame rate some, then comparing performance as you add more separate meshes.

 

Hmm, glad you brought that to my attention. Until they're rigged and animated, I'm not sure it would be possible to tell how much of a performance impact it would have, but it's not encouraging that four meshes on a *static* object created a noticeable slowdown.

 

Any idea where that thread was? I'd like to read up on it.

[Nyarlathotep]

Don't know how many of y'all are Stargate geeks, but my first thought on seeing his face was, "Hallowed are the Ori."

[ascottk]

Don't know how many of y'all are Stargate geeks, but my first thought on seeing his face was, "Hallowed are the Ori."

Too bad the series is done. Oh well, there's SG Atlantis next week Oh yeah, Heroes starts again next monday

[Domarius]

@Spring - so where did the new body come from? (The one with the Priest head on it.) Did you use parts from other oDDity models and tweak them?

 

It would be good to make the most of the head swapping feature and get some more good quality heads in the toolset somehow...

[New Horizon]

Yup, we're using all oDDity created parts that are tweaked to the needs of the specific character. Heads can be tweaked in much the same way, and the skins altered to give more variety.

[Springheel]

@Spring - so where did the new body come from? (The one with the Priest head on it.) Did you use parts from other oDDity models and tweak them?

 

Well, if you want specifics, the torso is the proguard torso--I shortened the tunic, removed the sleeves and replaced the (1200 poly!?!?!) belt buckle. The legs are from the thief model--I remodelled the bottom a bit to make them into shoes and removed the laces from the normal-maps. The arms are from the acolyte, the shoulder pads are highly tweaked versions from the original nobleman model, and the collar is a resized and reshaped version of the builder metal collar.

 

It would be good to make the most of the head swapping feature and get some more good quality heads in the toolset somehow...

 

Yep, I'll be doing the same thing to the heads. I've already got a nobleman's head in the works with some swappable hats, but they require a lot of delicate texture work, so they'll take longer.

[Domarius]

Cool, yeah I was interested in the specifics. I really like how it's turning out It's really promising, it's like we only need oDDity's injection of artistic genius in the form of a few different (but very un-alike) models, and we can propagate the new parts into a variety of combinations. That works well, cause oDDity was only interested in doing very unique and interesting models.

[Springheel]

I don't think it's very likely Odd is going to be contributing more character models, but we've already got enough for all the AI we wanted for 1.0. And the more I learn about modelling, the easier it will be for me to modify them even further. I'm already pretty sure I can make a decent pagan and whore out of existing models.

[oDDity]

Well, I might still contribute more models. It's just a matter of getting some enthusiasm back to do it. I was running entirely on enthusiasm at the start of the project.

Without that, it just makes it all hard work with no reward.

I may have made it look easy, but it is a hell of a lot of hard work building those characters, not helped by the fact that I have a strict set of self-imposed standards I have to keep to and surpass, or I'm not happy.

I'll take a look around the forums and see what needs to be done, and if any of it interests me right now.

[greebo]

I'll take a look around the forums and see what needs to be done, and if any of it interests me right now.

*crosses fingers*

[ascottk]

Well, I might still contribute more models. It's just a matter of getting some enthusiasm back to do it. I was running entirely on enthusiasm at the start of the project.

Without that, it just makes it all hard work with no reward.

I may have made it look easy, but it is a hell of a lot of hard work building those characters, not helped by the fact that I have a strict set of self-imposed standards I have to keep to and surpass, or I'm not happy.

I'll take a look around the forums and see what needs to be done, and if any of it interests me right now.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Most of what turned me off over the summer was yet another model/texture reorg

[oDDity]

Fat shopkeeper, male

Generic Peasant Female

Mage, male

Pagan Warrior, male

Whore/Barmaid

 

Are these all still needed?

[Springheel]

Of those, the whore/barmaid and the pagan male are still needed for sure. We could also use a generic male peasant-type, though I don't know how exciting that is. An inventor scientist (as opposed to an engineer) would also be useful and perhaps more interesting.

 

I appreciate how much work these are, just from tweaking yours. Even with most of the modelling done there's still a lot of mind-numbing uv and texture work.

[Springheel]

While you're here, Odd, maybe you could help with something I keep running into. I'll occasionally get strange effects on particular polys when making modifications to a mesh. Below you can see that there are a couple polys that are 'smeared' when viewed in game. It seems to be related to the points of the poly appearing more than once on a uvmap--when I select a point, it is highlighted in two different spots or even on two different vertex maps. Welding them works sometimes, and clearing them from the second vertex map works sometimes, but not always. I'm not really sure how the points got mapped twice.

 

Is there something obvious I'm doing wrong that causes this effect? I'm still mostly learning as I go, so there's lots of stumbling around in the dark.