I am afraid.

[Winkler Oszkár]

Excuse me for opening a whole new topic, but I really need to know some things. (sorry for my english)

 

I played Thief's Den, and it is great. Of course you mentioned that this demo is in a very early stage but I already in a worry.

 

Here are some of my observations:

 

1, Player control is very rough. In the original Thief I loved that if I pushed the "Move Forward" key for only a second, than Garrett didn't make any sound. This Creep function in Thief's Den is not good.

2, The noise of the player's walk is also bad.

3, The mouse movement is rough.

 

Please tell me that many aspects in the final version will be corrected.

 

Thank you for your good and hard work!

[New Horizon]

1, Player control is very rough. In the original Thief I loved that if I pushed the "Move Forward" key for only a second, than Garrett didn't make any sound. This Creep function in Thief's Den is not good.

 

I'm not sure if you're also referring to head bobbing, but the head bobbing has been cleaned up to better replicate that of Thief...although, it is less pronounced, so hopefully people won't get motion sickness.

 

2, The noise of the player's walk is also bad.

 

Sound will be tweaked. The way footsteps are played has been changed since the demo. The footsteps used to play based on a 3d animated model...but now they are played in sync with the head bobbing of the player.

 

3, The mouse movement is rough.

 

Mouse movement can be adjusted in the menu. I've never run into any issues with rough mouse movement.

[Vadrosaul]

To further discuss question #2, will various movement-sound variables be modifiable in INI files?

[Crispy]

Footstep-related variables are exposed in data files. I wouldn't expect players to tweak them though, that's something that should be set properly before release anyway.

[New Horizon]

Footstep-related variables are exposed in data files. I wouldn't expect players to tweak them though, that's something that should be set properly before release anyway.

 

Indeed, they're currently exposed in the data files for tweaking, but anything that that is necessary for reliable gameplay will be removed at the time of official release. It can all still be tweaked in the source, but removing stuff from the data files ensures everyone will have an unbroken playing experience.

[Winkler Oszkár]

First of all, sorry for my english.

 

I wrote my previous letter deep in the night yesterday, I was really tired and in a bad mood, that's why it is a bit incomplete and rude. (Sorry for that)

 

I don't mean your work is bad. I am glad you are here for the Thief fans out there. Let me explain some of my points in my former letter now.

 

1, No, I wasn't referring to head bobbing. In Thief, player control was somehow more balanced. Like: there were walking (less noisy) and running (noisier) but if you had to move REALLY noiseless, you had the chance for it. You pushed the "Walk Forward" key for only a second than you released it. If you did it well, Garrett didn't make any sound. I found a Creep function in The Dark Mod and it works but moving is way too slow with it. (player could feel sneaking better with the original concept --> not just holding down a Creep key) In Thief's Den I was always spotted even if I were in shadows and just walking, not running. This is kind of irritating.

2, Yeah, I understand. Player's footsteps sounds can be altered easily.

3, In Thief's Den, all the characters turned there faces in my direction. Is this a conscious developer idea or I was just spotted again?

4, Mouse movement is somehow rough with my computer. I move my mouse gently but the view jumps too big. It is not so irritating but it is there. I tried to use Smooth Mouse too but didn't help.

5, The inventory system: I couldn't find a "Clear inventory" key. Will it integrated? Can we hotkey items, like potions, keys, etc.?

6, I don't find Mantle key too useful. When I try to get down from a high place I just fall down with big noise. Maybe I do it wrong...?

 

That's all for now.

 

Thank you very much again! The Dark Mod is really progressing!

[DigitalNapalm]

4, Mouse movement is somehow rough with my computer. I move my mouse gently but the view jumps too big. It is not so irritating but it is there. I tried to use Smooth Mouse too but didn't help.

 

Thats a mouse sensitivity thing. You might want to try to turn that down in game, or even in windows. You can adjust the mouse sensitivity right next to where you adjusted the "smooth mouse." Mine is turned way down because I have a high resolution mouse.

[SneaksieDave]

You pushed the "Walk Forward" key for only a second than you released it.

Yes, the "inching" from Thief. I like that as well. We discussed it internally for quite a bit, and the conclusion we came to was to implement creep, which is not a quasi-exploit (as inching could be interpreted), and is nearly silent, but not silent. So there will be a slow, very very quiet movement in TDM.

 

I'm with you on the footstep sounds; I don't like them either (apologies to the source of them).

 

Characters turning toward you might be: looking around, scripted to do so, or aware of you.

 

I'm guessing your mouse problem might be due to framerate; id games are rock solid with movement.

 

There is an inventory clear. Bind a key to "inventory hotkey " (note the space at the end)

E.g.,

bind "tab" "inventory hotkey "

 

Mantle (and the mantle key) rules beyond all description, so I cannot help you there.

[BEAR]

This is something I've wondered about playing in my own maps and other peoples. The thief games had not only a unique gameplay and setting, but the dark engine itself had a very unique feeling movement system.

 

Like, for instance, walking down a staircase fast causes you to skip and jump just a little, and the way you kind of slide off narrow objects. I like TDM however it works out and I know everyone has more to worry about than little things like that, but capturing a few little tidbits like that would probably just make people feel even more at home.

 

The other thing I've been wondering about: is there any plan to implement throwing of objects similar to thief? I've always liked the 1 button activate/use/throw system of thief, and seems with the added physics capabilities of Doom 3 being able to throw stuff around would just be that much more fun.

[Komag]

We can already throw things, it works well

[BEAR]

Ah, perhaps I should know wth I'm talking about then. Is it a bound key or something? I'll experiment with it now!

 

edit: oh, I see. I'd played with tossing things around before but I thought that was just a biproduct of the carrying method, I now see you can toss things strait as well (if thats what you are talking about)

 

I like having a more dynamic new style for tossing things but I don't like how exaggerated you have to make the motion to do it. I also found myself being quite fond of the thief style hurling 200 pound boulders etc. Not that it has to be that way, just curious what the consensus was on that.

[New Horizon]

Ah, perhaps I should know wth I'm talking about then. Is it a bound key or something? I'll experiment with it now!

 

How far you throw can be determined by how long you hold down the mouse key. It's the same key you hit on the mouse to drop an object you have picked up.

[Ishtvan]

If someone didn't say so already, throw is bound to the "attack" button, there should be no mouse movement required. You can also toss things by moving and hitting frob to let go, but that is less convenient.

[BEAR]

Ah, christ, somehow would never have thought of that. I guess when something is that familiar its hard to figure out how to do it. I guess there could also be a key binding for it at some point, no? In case people wanted to change it?

[DigitalNapalm]

Would it be hard to make things right themselves when you pick them up?

I find it annoying when I can't pick up something and put it back the way I found it. It also seems silly when you have a candlestick that's upside down or something like that... and it doesn't make sense. Its one of those things that pulls me out of the experience.

[Ishtvan]

You know can rotate objects in your "hands" however you want. By default you hold the zoom button and move the mouse to rotate stuff. It should be listed there in the options menu.

[DigitalNapalm]

You know can rotate objects in your "hands" however you want. By default you hold the zoom button and move the mouse to rotate stuff. It should be listed there in the options menu.

 

I had no idea.

[New Horizon]

Pretty sure everything is listed on the wiki.

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php/Thief%27s_Den

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php/...7s_Den_Gameplay

[HappyCheeze]

I knew from the start when playing thiefsden for the first time that attack would throw the held object. I'm used to that from playing Half-life 2. The rotating I discovered by accident.

 

I think maybe we should put in a training level, or at least make a map that goes over EVERYTHING, a little tutorial map with readables that tell the player what key does what and all that stuff. Maybe even go so far as to make an objective to rotate the candlestick and put it in a hole or to throw an objective at a target.

 

EDIT: You know what? I think I might make something like that. When I get back from school I'll start with a basic training course map that anyone can download. Also I can stick in its link in the beginner wiki articles we have. After I finish it of course ;-)

[Springheel]

There will be a training map with the final release.

 

A training map with something as small as Thief's Den would be kind of pointless--making the training map would take almost as much time as making the mission itself. And if people would actually just read the instructions, there wouldn't be any surprises.