Opinions on St. Lucia Demo

[Crispy]

If you open vanilla Doom 3 and press Ctrl-Alt-~, what version number does it give you in the corner of the console that comes down? It should be 1.3.1.1304.

 

If not, make sure you have the correct patch version, and that you patched into the correct directory (the patch installer is too "clever" for its own good and sometimes does its best to make you mess this up).

[Unconsicous]

If you open vanilla Doom 3 and press Ctrl-Alt-~, what version number does it give you in the corner of the console that comes down? It should be 1.3.1.1304.

 

If not, make sure you have the correct patch version, and that you patched into the correct directory (the patch installer is too "clever" for its own good and sometimes does its best to make you mess this up).

 

It claims to be patch 1.3.1.1304 according to the console.

 

I've been playing around for a while now, and I still can't seem to get the game working. The modification files are meant to be in a St Lucia folder in C:/program files/Doom 3, right?

[Baal]

Do you have the file "devil.dll" in your doom 3 directory?

[Fidcal]

It claims to be patch 1.3.1.1304 according to the console.

 

I've been playing around for a while now, and I still can't seem to get the game working. The modification files are meant to be in a St Lucia folder in C:/program files/Doom 3, right?

Yes, but I think the installer extracts that folder so make sure you didn't extract into a saint lucia folder so you have a second saint lucia folder inside the first. Also I believe the space in Doom 3 might be a problem though I'm not certain. Alternatively possibly the path should be all low case. Again, I'm not certain. I thought there was some info on this somewhere but I can't find it now.

[Unconsicous]

I reinstalled it, and it seems to be working. One major issue though.

 

I don't appear to have any textures. This was posted by someone on a previous page but I haven't been able to correct it.

Edited February 19, 2009 by Unconsicous

[Tels]

I reinstalled it, and it seems to be working. One major issue though.

 

I don't appear to have any textures. This was posted by someone on a previous page but I haven't been able to correct it.

 

Does this fix it?

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php/...en_mostly_black

[New Horizon]

open the doomconfig file in your saintlucia installation and look for useallformats...set it to 1 if it isn't already. That 'should' correct it. For some reason, if you have your own settings on 'high' or 'ultra' d3 will over ride our doomconfig.

[Diego]

Hello all!

Finally, I had the time to play st lucia! I've been waiting for that since last year Now I'm a very happy unemployed physicist playing a darkmod demo! How weird is that? o_O

 

Anyway, I wanted to share my impressions and found this thread. So I'm using it!

 

Be proud people! This mod just overcame all three thief games, in my opinion. It looks and feels better. The manipulation of objects is great.. it's not very useful, but I use it whenever I can.. "oh, let me put this vase back into place!" lol these small things do make a difference in the big picture.

 

I didn't find any bug that wasn't previously reported. And even those were very subtle and didn't ruined anything. The worst was the menu, because I wanted to see my objectives. Eventually I wrote them down on paper. I kept pressing 'o' instinctually

[Fidcal]

You can see the objectives in-game by pressing Esc then selecting Objectives. You can't see them after finishing unfortunately, I wish you could, including after failing.

 

Most moveables have no special use but some will have. For instance, in SL try

grabbing the broom in the street and pushing the pallette blocking the window

In the future there will be situations where you need to use moveables. My current mission has a moveable stepladder you can move to new places to climb. Placing crates and other objects of course will be a common use for climbing otherwise inaccessible places. Climbing a stack of crates is far better than in T2.

[Diego]

Yes! I forgot to comment on the physics exploration! I did exactly that you said (in black).. it was an emotional moment :~

 

The demo illustrated very well the new gameplay possibilities unexplored before.

[demagogue]

Finally got to play this on a proper computer...

 

- I wanted to crouch under a fireplace, but accidentally hit the mantle key (still getting used to that), mantled the fireplace, and suddenly noticed

the painting above it had jewels for eyes

! That's dumb luck for you!

 

Now things I know you probably know about, but for the record...

 

- I sometimes like to run and jump through a clear area. I thought the running-jump didn't feel as long as it should. Also, I noticed when you jumped on to stairs it would mantle onto them, rather than just keep you running up the stairs. That can really feel like it's slowing you down when you're in a hurry.

 

- IIRC, I didn't see the "Restart Mission" from the main menu (in Thief's Den, actually; forgot to check if St L still missed it). I was about to die and I preferred just restarting the mission, but didn't have the option in the menu.

 

- I agree with reworking KOs so there's a bit of pause or something before they go down. Already been talked about, I know...

 

- Re: object manipulation, it's fine to me that objects interact with the world when held, but the use of collision sounds needs work (as mentioned before). Anyway, I didn't like the stream of clunks when an object touches a wall. I was wondering about collision sounds just being turned off while being held, then turn back on when dropped so you still get a falling plop, or at least maybe muffled (or volume controlled by how hard you ram it into something).

 

- Animations, sounds (barks, collision sounds), fx, combat ... stuff already mentioned a lot before, and you guys already know (/have already fixed) what could use work.

 

Fun map. It gives a good indication of good things go come. Congrats guys.

Edited March 22, 2009 by demagogue

[Noisycricket]

Heres my brain storm while playing St. Lucia:

 

-Great demo

-Love the mice

-great bow movement

-Love the item choosing and using system!

 

 

Things I hope to see:

 

-A.I. climb ladders (possible to hit/kick them on the way up?)

-kick? challenging fight system

-chance for noticing doors open

-optional bow-zoom

-head movement for throwing, hand animation for throwing

-slight head movement for arrow release

-head movement for blackjack ( up and right slightly for raise, down and left to stop just before contact.

-lower music volume and/or headphone sound mode.

-lower step sounds/raise A.I. hearing ability

-raise A.I. vision ability

-moving sky (circular) and clouds (Stalker

-Unbalanced items and chance for noise

-un-reusable noisemaker arrows

-more ambient noises

-sounds travel farther and cut out smoother (as is they just cut out too suddenly)

-More guard behavior (Guards carrying out duties from a readable note i.e. replacing candles, moving supplies/goods, guards reading, pacing back and forth, playing chess, throwing a ball against the wall, peeping into ladies room, writing a letter, going to backroom, lighting and smoking a pipe, sleeping, fixing something )

-multiple movement animation sets for different guard states (drunk, tired, anxious)

-head comes up somewhat when moving fast in crouch

-bye bye lantern (or at least holdable only with a free hand and invetory not usable)

[New Horizon]

-A.I. climb ladders (possible to hit/kick them on the way up?)

 

No. We debated this one years ago and after a lot of thought realized that there are just far too many reasons to not do it. It changes the gameplay immensely and creates too many exploits against the AI. AI coming up ladders are sitting ducks. Anyway, it's not in the cards for the core mod.

 

-kick? challenging fight system

 

Kicking? Highly unlikely. Although we're trying to create a more advance sword fighting system than the original games, fighting is not a primary focus for this type of game. The idea behind the thief games was to avoid conflict. You're given a minimal amount of skills/tools to defend yourself with...and that's as far as it will or should go.

 

-chance for noticing doors open

 

AI can already do this as far as I know...a door would have to be tagged as important for this to work though, I think.

 

-optional bow-zoom

 

You mean to shut it off? Probably already possible...if it's not in the menu, then it probably shouldn't be hard to make it happen.

 

-head movement for throwing, hand animation for throwing

-slight head movement for arrow release

Highly unlikely. A hand animation or head movement would require more animation work...we're already strapped for animations as it is. Also, these are not really needed.

 

-head movement for blackjack ( up and right slightly for raise, down and left to stop just before contact.

No. This would interfere with aiming and complicate the system. Less is more. Precision control is more important than slavishly recreating every subtle body movement. We're not trying to fully recreate human movement...it's an approximation..an on screen representation.

 

-lower music volume and/or headphone sound mode.

-lower step sounds/raise A.I. hearing ability

-raise A.I. vision ability

-moving sky (circular) and clouds (Stalker

-Unbalanced items and chance for noise

-un-reusable noisemaker arrows

-more ambient noises

-sounds travel farther and cut out smoother (as is they just cut out too suddenly)

-More guard behavior (Guards carrying out duties from a readable note i.e. replacing candles, moving supplies/goods, guards reading, pacing back and forth, playing chess, throwing a ball against the wall, peeping into ladies room, writing a letter, going to backroom, lighting and smoking a pipe, sleeping, fixing something )

-multiple movement animation sets for different guard states (drunk, tired, anxious)

-head comes up somewhat when moving fast in crouch

-bye bye lantern (or at least holdable only with a free hand and invetory not usable)

 

Animation related stuff. We're doing our best. We don't have a huge team of animators. Initial releases will see the basics. So anything animation related...don't expect extras for the first release. If people in the community really want more animations, I'm sure they'll step up to the plate. We've done our best.

 

Item and weapon manipulation. Mappers can play around with our files after release. So for unreusable noise arrows, that can be decided on a map by map basis. We're not going to take every possible option into account. Our job is to create a solid, unified set of mapping tools.

 

Lantern will continue to function as it currently does. It's a small hooded lantern that is clipped onto the Thief's belt. It does not require a hand to hold it.

 

We'll provide as many noises as we can, but community contributions will help later.

 

Mucking with the AI abilities...mapper related. I don't think we're going to be putting those kinds of controls into the menu, but mappers will be able to play with this for themselves. Changing these levels can greatly affect the balance of gameplay however.

 

As for moving sky and clouds, we've already displayed videos about that where the clouds move and obscure the moonlight.

 

The sounds need to be adjusted for better falloff effects. It was a demo, so we're aware things aren't perfect yet. Please keep that in mind.

[Noisycricket]

No. We debated this one years ago and after a lot of thought realized that there are just far too many reasons to not do it. It changes the gameplay immensely and creates too many exploits against the AI. AI coming up ladders are sitting ducks. Anyway, it's not in the cards for the core mod.

Yeah, I can see how it could lead to problems. Perhaps a special move for the A.I. guards where they would automatically give you a punch that knocks you back a few steps, then pull themselves all the way up the ladder ready to square off with you and block attacks. Keep in mind, most of my brain-stormed ideas there were intended to be for consideration for a future add-on, not in the 1.0. Which is darn great as it is.

 

Kicking? Highly unlikely. Although we're trying to create a more advance sword fighting system than the original games, fighting is not a primary focus for this type of game. The idea behind the thief games was to avoid conflict. You're given a minimal amount of skills/tools to defend yourself with...and that's as far as it will or should go.

Kicking, like Dark Messiah, Might and Magic, yeah. Very useful in that game because it knocked the guards out of striking distance...as well as off cliffs... I mention that game because it had the best fighting system *i've* ever used (although i've heard theres other good ones). Moves and blocks took angle, distance and screen position into account i believe.

 

Highly unlikely. A hand animation or head movement would require more animation work...we're already strapped for animations as it is. Also, these are not really needed.

I'd like to help with animation.

 

 

No. This would interfere with aiming and complicate the system. Less is more. Precision control is more important than slavishly recreating every subtle body movement. We're not trying to fully recreate human movement...it's an approximation..an on screen representation.

I think capable of being a singularly enjoyable experience, but perhaps i can help rather than just complain on my keyboard

 

Animation related stuff. We're doing our best. We don't have a huge team of animators. Initial releases will see the basics. So anything animation related...don't expect extras for the first release. If people in the community really want more animations, I'm sure they'll step up to the plate. We've done our best.

and its lookin great!

[Mortem Desino]

I'd like to help with animation.

 

I think capable of being a singularly enjoyable experience, but perhaps i can help rather than just complain on my keyboard

OhBoyOhBoyOhBoyOhBoy!

[Ishtvan]

Yeah, I can see how it could lead to problems. Perhaps a special move for the A.I. guards where they would automatically give you a punch that knocks you back a few steps, then pull themselves all the way up the ladder ready to square off with you and block attacks. Keep in mind, most of my brain-stormed ideas there were intended to be for consideration for a future add-on, not in the 1.0. Which is darn great as it is.

What if the ladder is longer than the distance they can punch? You could just stand at the top and fire arrows into their face. Ladder-combat is a major undertaking which is why we're not considering it at the moment.

 

Kicking, like Dark Messiah, Might and Magic, yeah. Very useful in that game because it knocked the guards out of striking distance...as well as off cliffs... I mention that game because it had the best fighting system *i've* ever used (although i've heard theres other good ones). Moves and blocks took angle, distance and screen position into account i believe.

I think the point that New Horizon was making was: Why bother trying to be stealthy if you can run around kicking all the guards off cliffs? You'll be able to give them a run for their money with your sword. Kicking or shoving them around doesn't seem particularly necessary.

 

I'd like to help with animation.

That's great! We're always happy to have help.

[Noisycricket]

What if the ladder is longer than the distance they can punch? You could just stand at the top and fire arrows into their face. Ladder-combat is a major undertaking which is why we're not considering it at the moment.

Hadn't considered using arrows lol, yeah, i see what you mean. I actually meant that they would punch you away after having climbed up the ladder and you got in their range lol, but your arrow point is obviously a good one. Brings up a lot of thoughts for this "armchair-game-developer". Such as a reminder to minimize hit-boxes making arrow targeting more difficult. Anyway, the guard could follow you intitially on the condition that you arent currently equipped with a ranged weapon or havn't finished climbing all the way up yourself. Keeping track of your LOS (line of sight), if the player comes back into view with a range weapon and the guard is still climbing then the guard could exhibit an "ah crap!" and slide down the ladder quickly, rather than climbing down at normal speed. Guards being able to climb ladders quicker than you might be helpful (to them ) If a simple weapon check determines that the player does in fact have a ranged weapon BEFORE the guard is in Climbladder() mode, then the guard could be made to get the help of a ranged guard and climb the ladder when the ranged helper is actively engaging the player. If guard can't find ranged help within certain amount time, then find other route to last player position(and of course, they could consider finding another route to begin with).

 

I think the point that New Horizon was making was: Why bother trying to be stealthy if you can run around kicking all the guards off cliffs? You'll be able to give them a run for their money with your sword. Kicking or shoving them around doesn't seem particularly necessary.

Another good point, im just thinking about a future *refinement*, where the player is allowed the posibility of fighting with a *fun and challenging* system of combat, but at a difficulty level that would make fighting a single guard very difficult and perhaps painstaking, but possible. Just brain storming that one.

[New Horizon]

I don't think expanding combat is a consideration for the main mod. Perhaps someone will do it as an add on modification, but I don't see 'more' combat being added to the core mod. That's not what we're after with this. We're not really interested in making more ways to fight in a game that encourages sneaking over violence.

[Ishtvan]

If even the psuedocode for being on ladders is that complicated (and it always is, in all the discussions), just imagine what a nightmare it would be to actually code and debug it.

 

Such as a reminder to minimize hit-boxes making arrow targeting more difficult.

There's no hitbox in that case. The arrow projectile checks against each poly of the rendered model that you see.

[Crispy]

I'd like to help with animation.

Why not create a thread in the I Want to Help forum and show us what you can do.

[Noisycricket]

Im going through the Maya tutorials again, but i haven't done much animating, just learned how for fun. Im actually contemplating doing it for a living at the moment, but thats a long way off. Is there any model you want me to animate, so i can be productive while i re-learn? A goat or a duck or bird or...

Edited March 23, 2009 by Noisycricket

[New Horizon]

Im going through the Maya tutorials again, but i haven't done much animating, just learned how for fun. Im actually contemplating doing it for a living at the moment, but thats a long way off. Is there any model you want me to animate, so i can be productive while i re-learn? A goat or a duck or bird or...

 

lol Humans would be of much more use to us.

[Mortem Desino]

I think if he wants to re-learn, a smaller critter might be more appropriate.

 

Unfortunately, we would have more use out of human animations, unless someone on the team wants to model and skin a stray cat or similar.

[New Horizon]

I think if he wants to re-learn, a smaller critter might be more appropriate.

 

Animating a quadruped would probably be more challenging than a biped though.

[Tels]

Animating a quadruped would probably be more challenging than a biped though.

 

We have a bird that could use more than the current animation (turn head is I think the only one it has