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Unstoppable

Deus Ex 3

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I loved Clear Sky :P Although my love for it was almost non-existent until I downloaded one of the aim fix mods which make the guns not suck ass.

 

I haven't played Clear Sky yet--I'm in Japan for a year studying abroad. This unfortunately (fortunately?) means I can't play anything new on my lackluster laptop. But I really loved the original Stalker, despite it's numerous flaws. In the end, the gun-play I really enjoyed. The inaccuracy of the guns I felt was realistic and well, I didn't have a problem with it. People complain that enemies can take way too many bullets, but I was always aiming for the head to begin with. I didn't check to see how many shots they could take in the torso.

 

So is Clear Sky's gun-play still intact from the first game? I guess no matter the differences, I'll enjoy it if at least it feels like the original in that respect.

Edited by Ombrenuit

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Clear Sky is a game with no storyline. It has better shooting mechanics, although the gun stats are dumbed down so upgrading them is essential. It feels a lot more shallow than SHOC though. A lot more shallow. And guns are even more inaccurate.

 

Anyway, back to Deus Ex 3...


Ha! So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him. And saaaaaay "HEY! Bad guy! You're not s'pposed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword...'til you go...'Ouch I'm dead!' Ahahahah (hic) See? Ain't no one gonna be messin with old Benny."

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The inaccuracy of the guns I felt was realistic and well, I didn't have a problem with it. People complain that enemies can take way too many bullets, but I was always aiming for the head to begin with. I didn't check to see how many shots they could take in the torso.

It's not very realistic to aim for the head all the time. In a life or death struggle with someone who can shoot back, it's better to aim for their center of mass, because you're much less likely to miss. Even if it doesn't kill them, it's better to hit the torso and wound/stun them so that they can't fire back, rather than aim for the head and miss and get shot. Games always screw this up when they let people take fifteen rounds to the torso and just keep firing back at you. It's a shame when this happens in a game that otherwise tries to be realistic. I guess it's all in the name of difficulty, but I would rather have aiming be more difficult and realistic than have enemies that are invulnerable unless you shoot them in the head.

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I haven't played Clear Sky yet--I'm in Japan for a year studying abroad. This unfortunately (fortunately?) means I can't play anything new on my lackluster laptop. But I really loved the original Stalker, despite it's numerous flaws. In the end, the gun-play I really enjoyed. The inaccuracy of the guns I felt was realistic and well, I didn't have a problem with it. People complain that enemies can take way too many bullets, but I was always aiming for the head to begin with. I didn't check to see how many shots they could take in the torso.

 

So is Clear Sky's gun-play still intact from the first game? I guess no matter the differences, I'll enjoy it if at least it feels like the original in that respect.

 

No the guns suck majority unfortunately. Because of the new upgrade system they dumbed down the original stats of guns so when you get them off bodies and around the zone in general they suck ASS. They miss way to much. I found I could be point blank and miss an enemy. That's why i definitely recommend downloading a patch to fix it which I think vastly improves game play. I thought the story was okay but the ending sucked. The environments were a blast to go through, especially with the new anomaly system they put in. Everything felt much more alive to me but if you liked the original stalker, you will like clear sky.

 

It's not very realistic to aim for the head all the time. In a life or death struggle with someone who can shoot back, it's better to aim for their center of mass, because you're much less likely to miss. Even if it doesn't kill them, it's better to hit the torso and wound/stun them so that they can't fire back, rather than aim for the head and miss and get shot. Games always screw this up when they let people take fifteen rounds to the torso and just keep firing back at you. It's a shame when this happens in a game that otherwise tries to be realistic. I guess it's all in the name of difficulty, but I would rather have aiming be more difficult and realistic than have enemies that are invulnerable unless you shoot them in the head.

 

Yes but at the same time you take millions of bullet yourself. Stalker uses the excuse of armor to pull this off which I think was fine.

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I didn't play Clear Sky, because Stalker sucked too hard. I had never before experienced a shooter, in which the enemies manage to sneak their heads directly into your crosshair... :D Hilarious!! Also the preview trailers suggested a totally different gameplay and so I was very disapointed by the actual product.

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What nay sayers? Just wait until the bloody game if finished before throwing a party, that's all. We've all be around the track a few times on the old disappointment train. Wait before you celebrate! Been through it all with TDS, don't need to jump the gun over a few screen shots. It's too early for all that.

 

3 words: Duke Nukem Forever.

 

...or as I like to say, Duke Nukem ForNever.

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Here's a very interesting article with Project Lead of Deus Ex 3 Jean-Facois Dugas. (From CD-Action)

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=83786

 

Definitely makes me more excited considering how complex and detailed the game world is going to be. Haven't finished reading it so I will edit my comment with further thoughts. A definite must read for any Deus Ex fan...

 

Interesting snipit

Invisible War? Forget it!

 

The nod to newcomers shouldn't however trouble fans of the originals - before starting production, the Eidos Montreal team thouroughly analysed both Deus Ex and Invisible War. This was highgly important, as the godfather of the franchise, Warren Spector, is not involved with the making of the new addition to the cycle. The developers wanted to preserve the spirit of the previous games - We spent a lot of time discussing what makes Deus Ex what it is. - recalls Dugas. - The consensus was that it's an action game with RPG elements, with gameplay mechanics based on four elements: combat, stealth, hacking and and advanced social interaction. Additionally, freedom of choice must be offered, with various choices having their consequences, sometimes really meaningful.

 

For their own needs, the Eidos Montreal team have devised a set of seven key elements of the Deus Ex brand (more in the corresponding box) which decided the character of the first two games in the series. Both, though in some aspects similar, were substantially different from each other. Dugas has no doubt which one should be the more important inspiration for the team producing Deus Ex 3.

 

- We quickly decided that we should look that our model should be the first game - he explains. - Invisible War did have a few interesting ideas, but the proposed changes did not go in a good direction. You can notice we're inspired by the first Deus Ex on several different levels, beginning with trying to capture the atmosphere, and ending with some of the very simple, basic gameplay mechanics. Obvious example? No unified ammo like the one in Invisible War. Each weapon has it's own ammo. Even our inventory screen is much like the one from DX1.

Edited by Unstoppable

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Mention distancing from previous flop: check

Mention distancing from previous team/designers/scapegoat: check

Mention of unified ammo, interface (only the most superficial and common complaints): check

Make appearance that 'we know what was wrong before and know how to fix it this time': check

Obligatory nod to 'vets' while welcoming 'newcomers': check

 

Though it certainly doesn't establish anything wrong with the title, such empty PR statements really don't work on anyone anymore... do they?

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Though it certainly doesn't establish anything wrong with the title, such empty PR statements really don't work on anyone anymore... do they?

I dunno.......they have gotten President's voted into office.


Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!

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Just got a reply from one of the guys in regards to a female version of Adam Jensen. (The Protagonist). No comment yet so :crosses fingers: that they will be able to pull it off.

 

DX: Bible here:

http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/april0...dx1/index2.shtm

 

Story about how JC and Paul Denton came to be here:

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=83883

 

Very interesting stuff.

Edited by Unstoppable

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For their own needs, the Eidos Montreal team have devised a set of seven key elements of the Deus Ex brand

Sounds like the game is being designed by the Marketing department *vomit*

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I recommend everyone reads the DX bible, if you haven't already. Very very interesting :) Getting more pessimistic about DX3, but hey. There's always Thief 4. Or the Dark Mod if Thief 4 goes down.

 

Got into the Illuminati Lab now, so I'm around 3/4 through the game or so. Still very very fun :)


Ha! So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him. And saaaaaay "HEY! Bad guy! You're not s'pposed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword...'til you go...'Ouch I'm dead!' Ahahahah (hic) See? Ain't no one gonna be messin with old Benny."

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Sounds like the game is being designed by the Marketing department *vomit*

I think this is highly likely; given that purportedly Eidos cost its parent company some £100,000,000 pounds in lost profits. Most of its recent games have been flops (Kane and Lynch etc.) and have sold in underwhelming numbers. I'd expect the new Deus Ex to be cross-platform on as many consoles as possible with absolutely no risk to it at all; I reckon the dvelopment team would have as tight a leash on them as the execs and board could enforce. This game will be all about money methinks, and built on a cookie-cutter board; and we all know what that does to creativity :angry:

Edited by SplaTtzZ

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I think this is highly likely; given that purportedly Eidos cost its parent company some £100,000,000 pounds in lost profits. Most of its recent games have been flops (Kane and Lynch etc.) and have sold in underwhelming numbers. I'd expect the new Deus Ex to be cross-platform on as many consoles as possible with absolutely no risk to it at all; I reckon the dvelopment team would have as tight a leash on them as the execs and board could enforce. This game will be all about money methinks, and built on a cookie-cutter board; and we all know what that does to creativity :angry:

 

Wow sir you and some other people on this thread are beasts. Already jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts. Lets say hypothetically that the marketing team has influence on the developers for one second.

 

Which game has sold more out of these? Deus Ex 1, Deus Ex 2, Thief 1, 2, and 3?

 

Also I'm talking first time sales not second hand. Probably Deus Ex. It was the least marketed as well. Deus Ex 2 didn't make the money it took to make it. Not sure about Thief 3 but the sales weren't something anyone was talking about and that's not a good sign.

 

Which means hopefully this time around marketing can hit the target it requires. The game needs to sell and needs to sell well. This game needs to help Eidos it needs to be a big hit.

 

I do know this it is being developed for the PC and ported over to consoles. (I'll double check this fact however). It will have big levels and it probably won't compromise and simplify like Invisible War did. We will just have to wait and see how things turn out.

 

It is important for Deus Ex 3 to sell well so that Thief 4 is well funded.

Edited by Unstoppable

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I think you're missing the point, unstoppable. The fact that Eidos *needs* this game to sell well is what worries people. You seem to think that this need guarantees that it will turn out very much like the original Deus Ex. Well, that would be lovely indeed, however the fact of the matter is, the more they need to sell the game, the more likely they are to mainstream it. Imagine if they made Deus Ex 3 essentially like Halo 4 or something; it would sell like crazy! Now Halo wasn't a bad game at all IMO, but, it is a far cry from the work of art the original DX was. So, yes, DX did sell better than DX 2 (i think, but i'm not looking at the numbers) but that doesn't mean that they'll make it as much like DX1 as possible, b/c, to be frank, they're looking for more than just selling it to all their #1 DX fans, they need to sell to thousands upon thousands of people who've never even heard of DX, and the best way to do that is dumb it down for the masses. What a pity. I'm not saying that this is a guarantee or anything, in fact, at the moment, I'm probably naively optimistic about how DX3 will turn out. I'm just saying, don't assume it will be awesome based on the fact that it needs to be a mega blockbuster.

 

(Anyone else find it ironic the way unstoppable said "Already jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts." in such a condescending way? or was it just me?) lol, sorry to pick on you, unstoppable, that's just my two cents.


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Anyone else find it ironic the way unstoppable said "Already jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts."

I wasn't going to say anything, but since you brought it up... ^_^


My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.

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The thing is Eidos Montreal is specifically created with these goals in mind:

 

http://www.eidosmontreal.com/en/games.html

 

At EIDOS-MONTREAL, people come first, simply because people are the first success factor.

Our developers' and testers' Number One source of motivation and inspiration are the projects they work on:

 

AAA games, with high quality licenses that offer exciting challenges - e.g., the first two games we develop will revive successful franchises

Games for next-generation consoles - Xbox 360, PS3, PC, and Wii

 

We offer a friendly, multicultural work setting that focuses on communication and a feeling of belonging to ongoing projects, with:

 

Smaller teams - 80 people or less

Longer development schedules - at least 24 months - to avoid crunch times

The possibility for each team member to perform different types of work within their field - thus avoiding overspecialization, fosters individual versatility and resourcefulness

 

With that in mind I just want Deus Ex 3 to deliver. :)

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You see those same lofty goals and mission statements everywhere. All that shows is that the marketing department knows how to copy & paste, and you show there are still people gullible enough to eat it up.

 

From the few concrete implementation promises & paltry media Eidos Montreal has given so far, DX3 delivering greatness should be taken with a kilogram of salt. There is already a knock against them: instead of taking a chance on something new, like a different cyberpunk RPG tale, they've chosen to play it safe and capitalize on an existing fanbase. That inevitably leads down the slippery slope of playing it safe/mainstreaming the development process.


Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!

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The thing is Eidos Montreal is specifically created with these goals in mind:

 

What else do you expect them to say? Of course they have to say that they will deliver high quality games and offer a friendly work environment and whatever else ... Anything different would be pointless to be posted.

 

I get every two weeks a mail from my boss (not my direct boss but frmo the upper management). I don't even bother to read those mails, because they are full of such hollow phrases that I know that he probably didn't write it himself anyway. Sounds like some textblocks from "Motivational Managment Phrases Package 2.0", just like that you posted here. Seems to come from the same library. ;)


Gerhard

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You see those same lofty goals and mission statements everywhere. All that shows is that the marketing department knows how to copy & paste, and you show there are still people gullible enough to eat it up.

 

From the few concrete implementation promises & paltry media Eidos Montreal has given so far, DX3 delivering greatness should be taken with a kilogram of salt. There is already a knock against them: instead of taking a chance on something new, like a different cyberpunk RPG tale, they've chosen to play it safe and capitalize on an existing fanbase. That inevitably leads down the slippery slope of playing it safe/mainstreaming the development process.

 

I disagree with you on those statements everywhere thing. You don't know that for sure and are jumping to conclusions based on being pissed off about the industry as a whole me thinks for their saturation.

 

How is it a knock against them that they are trying to fix the errors of Deus Ex 2 and give us the fans a sequel we DESERVE. Did you forget what HUGE dissapointment Invisible War was?

 

It is not going to be in any way EASY for them to capitalize on Deus Ex and Invisible War. First off the first one sold well but not as well as they wanted it too. (Eidos) Secondly the second one didn't even sell enough to cover the costs of production. Yes it was that bad.

 

You are mistaken when you say Deus Ex 3 is not a different cyberpunk RPG tale, because that's exactly what it is. It just has the Deus Ex 3 named attached to it as well as some storyline. Here's a little run down.

 

It takes place

 

BEFORE the events of the first Deus Ex. The world is way different and more cyberpunkish than the one found on Deus Ex. The economy is still in place and corporations patents and secret technology is guarded very closely. There is political rifts that will come into play and new gameplay mechanics will be present. You play Adam Jensen a security agent who is one day caught in the middle of a shoot out against black ops at the facility you are guarding.

 

 

Also I just found out that it apears Direct2Drive was able to successfully sell Invisible War. I'll have to verify this claim however.

 

I understand where you're coming from, these are just promises made by a new studio. I have faith in that they will deliver a game better than Invisible War and perhaps as good if not better than Deus Ex. As for main streaming the game, like I said it needs to sell, if not companies go bankrupt. Main streaming does not mean they will alienate the hardcore fans.

 

Look at EA, they tried their hand on some new franchises. Dead Space worked well and Mirror's Edge is suffering a bit. Perhaps after Deus Ex 3 is successful and Thief 4 is successful there can be room for a new franchise.

 

Besides all this I have some exciting news. The game is 20% complete and there will be a demo for the press in February 2009. (non playable)

(source confirmed)

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I think you're building yourself up for a massive fall here mate. You can read whatever you like about Eidos Montreal in their mission statements but the fact remains that Eidos as a company are losing value; their recent acquisition woes are symptomatic of this. Having studied acquisitions and mergers somewhat I think I can safely say that around 75% (Even more!) of all acquisitions result in an overall loss of value for the firms involved. Its highly unlikely that Eidos will remake the loss in shareholder value their firm suffered from the acquisition and poor selling of games.

 

With this loss in mind I'd expect Eidos to try as much as possible with their projects to lower variance in returns;ie. reduce their overall risk. As such i would expect they would try to ensure that all projects are a)released on schedule and b)under or conforming to budgets. Whilst both these things do not necessarily mean that a game will always be a failure, they can often exacerbate this; I am also assuming Eidos would try to make their games appeal to wider consumer segments than the Deus Ex Fanbase. That then makes the focus for their games a)NEXt-Gen graphics zomg!!1! and b)not much else.

 

It's pretty simple really; why go out on a limb desiging some amazing arcing storyline or whatever and deep characters when you can just remake some fps in the vein of Halo and/or Half-life? Put enough guns in a game and make it look pretty and people will buy it. Lets face it, the original Deus Ex had terrible graphics, even for its time; its saving grace was its storyline. Eidos isn't going to try and appeal to that fanbase, theres too much of a risk that it won't sell widely; they want their game to sell to a greater audience than the first 2 did, and great storylines but poor graphics won't do that.

 

The first thing Eidos did when things went bad was ditch creativity for revenues; witness the demise of Looking Glass Studios and Ion Storm (admittedly Ion Storm dropped the ball with Deus Ex 2). The same thing happened with Black Isle Studios; the good game companies are always the first to go whilst the trash remains. :angry: Seriously i would be very, very pleasantly surprised if Deus Ex 3 had even 10% of the choices and gameplay elements Deus Ex had.

Edited by SplaTtzZ

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You disagree with reality Unstoppable? Sounds about par on the course for you…..

 

Identifying the errors and trying to fix them is a meaningless aim, because the crux of it lies with how they fix them, and from what has been seen so far, they are simply realigning the same mistakes elsewhere in the game design, mostly to appeal to a mainstream, dumbed-down audience.

 

Now, you can continue sounding like a shill, repeat ridiculous contradictory statements, such as “it’s a different tale, just the name and some story are the same”, and “mainstreaming does not mean they will alienate the hardcore fans”, but most members here have an IQ above the bell curve, so when 1 + 1 = 3 we can spot the idiocy at work.

 

Thanks for bringing another knock to light – prequels are another creative copout.


Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!

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