I´m interested in becoming a Beta Mapper

[Silencium18]

Hello everyone!

Last week I worked on a map and I think that it may be at least good enough to show/upload it here. The map contains a street, a pub and a thief guild.

Just tell me what you think. I´m currently placing visportals and fixing some problems. I´ll also upload the map soon.

(I also got a little question: Is there a tutorial to let an AI carry a torch? )

[swordbreaker]

woohooo! there is a explosion on numbers of beta mappers these days. Your map looks really good! streets buildings are fine. But how about performance(fps)? What I realized is new mappers put it second place in their maps.

 

 

edit:grammar

Edited February 8, 2009 by swordbreaker

[Fidcal]

Looks really good. I'd challenge the overhead brick ceiling. Horizontal ceilings are rarely bricked like that because bricks and mortart have very little horizontal strength. You see them in curved arches and curved tunnels where they are held in compression but not horizontally. Consider instead stout wooden beams with floorboards laid across them or plaster between the beams or else large stonework with lots of pillars. Or even vaulted stonework ceilings. Think structure and weight.

 

I used a torch carrying AI in Thief's Den. I'll have to check to see if it still done the same way as TDM keeps progressing but in Den the thug was given the property def_attach prop_torch_on_thug where prop_torch_on_thug would have been specially defined in one of the def files. I'll have to have a look to see if the same method still works. It is not difficult to attach things to AI using bind and bindToJoint but that might not be the best method here.

[Mortem Desino]

I like some of the lighting: pretty impressive and fairly realistic (a few exceptions, the second picture, those windows in the tower should be casting a little light on the tower faces, not just the recessed area.) The internal architecture looks nice, too. Its more impressive than "boxes", but the detail isn't confusing or distracting.

 

One pet peeve of mine is the vertical texture alignment of some of the bricks. Could you make sure that some of the lowermost bricks aren't halfway exposed? This is especially true on the outside walls. OR I sometimes like to hide that problem by making a solid foundation around the perimeter of brick buildings. Little details like that makes buildings look truly believable.

[greebo]

I really like the recent number of maps being in the works - it's showing that either the learning curve is not very high or there are plenty of quick learners out there (or both).

 

If I compared the latest screenshots with the ones we've been seeing one or two years ago, it's a huge step in terms of quality. Keep it up guys.

[swordbreaker]

I used a torch carrying AI in Thief's Den. I'll have to check to see if it still done the same way as TDM keeps progressing but in Den the thug was given the property def_attach prop_torch_on_thug where prop_torch_on_thug would have been specially defined in one of the def files. I'll have to have a look to see if the same method still works. It is not difficult to attach things to AI using bind and bindToJoint but that might not be the best method here.

 

I looked at your map and it's prop_torch_on. prop_torch_on_thug doesn't work. it's really cool stuff

Edited February 9, 2009 by swordbreaker

[Retsaki]

Very nice. =)

[Baal]

Nice.

 

Some small things I noticed:

The texture on the railing in the second screenshot absolutely doesn't fit its architecture.

The brick texture could be scaled a little smaller.

And to keep it from getting repetitive you can divide the facades of the buildings so that they aren't just flat walls with windows on them.

[Silencium18]

Thx everyone for the positive feedback

I uploaded the map so you can have a look at it (and play it, of course)

http://rapidshare.com/files/195928282/Testmap.zip.html

 

Maybe I´ll add another street section with some buildings/gardens the player can explore

But how about performance(fps)?

Performance should be fine. (I also added some more visportals)

[Fidcal]

Excellent! Apart from a few texture alignment errors there is not much wrong with this. This could probably be made into a tiny finished mission in a week. I like it very much. You got my vote.

[Springheel]

(I also got a little question: Is there a tutorial to let an AI carry a torch? )

 

Not sure what resources you're using, but try adding this to the AI entity:

 

"def_attach "prop_torch_on"

 

That should be all you need to do.

[Silencium18]

Thx.

This could probably be made into a tiny finished mission in a week.

I try to build some more areas and place some more objects and AIs. Maybe I`ll create a loot objective.

[Baal]

That was cool. I really like the thieves hideout. And performance was good too.

But I think it needs more visportals for better sound propagation. If you don't set them up right AI could hear you when you don't expect it, through a thick wall for example. Read the wiki article about sound propagation.

The street area should be visportaled too because performance (and sound) will become a problem when it grows bigger.

 

Keep working on it. It's very good already.

[Silencium18]

After adding some new sections (a little house+backyard) I get this error

 

ERROR: i >= MAX_REACH_PER_AREA

 

What does that mean?

[Fidcal]

It's a pathfinding complexity error. The problem is likely that big hull that surrounds the map. Try removing it. Within it you have another shell. change its texture to caulk. See if that helps.

[Silencium18]

Doesn´t seem to solve the problem. I also saw something like this while dmapping the map:

Warning: Backwards triangle created

Does it have to do with the error I get when I load the map?

I think I´ll have to delete the added sections and replace them with other ones

[Mortem Desino]

Warning: Backwards triangle created

Those shouldn't matter a whole lot (unless you get a ton in a row.) If I remember right, those have to do with patches and geometry. It's just complaining that it can't optimize one tri correctly.

[Baal]

You should delete the big brushes around the map. They cause a lot of unnecessary space and geometry. Seal the streets off with skyportal brushes instead.

[Silencium18]

ok problem solved. Now I can finally begin to put new AIs/path and lights into the added sections.

[Tels]

It's a pathfinding complexity error. The problem is likely that big hull that surrounds the map. Try removing it. Within it you have another shell. change its texture to caulk. See if that helps.

 

Also use visportals to break up you sections, each AAS area is inside one portal-walled off room, so adding a visportal in the middle of a long street will split the area in half and the error likely goes away.

 

This is especially true if you add rats, they use a much smaller grid, so their max. floor space is much lower. A big cellar room can already be too big for them in one piece.

[Silencium18]

Here is the newest version of my map

http://rapidshare.com/files/196891491/Testmap_V2.zip.html

 

Things that are new:

- another street section

- a backyard alley

- a little house (4 rooms)

- 2 more AI with torches + path

- a stock/machine room in the thieves' hideout

- loot

- skybox (instead of the black brush)

 

Happy taffing

Edited February 11, 2009 by Silencium18

[Fidcal]

Got it. Will try it asap.

[Fidcal]

Yes, continues to be very good. Quite a few things need tweaking we can help you with. Well my view is you should be made a betamapper and we help you make this into a finished installable FM with story, readables, full objectives as soon as possible.

[Baal]

I just tried it and it's very good. The layout is interesting, it looks nice and it's fun to sneak through the backyards and alleys.

 

There are some things that need to be adressed though.

 

1. The way you set up the skyportals is not what I meant earlier. The map is still enclosed in a big room, which is not the best way to do it. The backside of the surrounding walls and houses (that the player will never see) will not be optimized away by dmap because they aren't in the void. This will also make pathfinding more complex than it needs to be.

 

2. Some visportals are not set up the right way. You can check that with r_showportals. The big portal in the starting area, for example, is not fully surrounded by solid brushes and does not work.

To make an area a separate vis area it has to be completely "airtight" (with all portals leading outisde considered closed).

 

3. Doors and windows also need portals. It's better for performance and necessary for sound propagation. The first guard (with the torch) hears you straight through the wall because the window has no visportal.

 

But, as Fidcal said, we can help you with that.

[Dram]

One technique you can use to reduce the pathfinding complexity is to fill emtpy space where AI cannot reach (such as in the air) with brushes textured with textures/common/monsterclip. This will mean that no AAS data will be generated for those areas and thus lowers build time, and prevents reaching the maximum reachabilities which gives you that area. You can also cut the areas with visportals.