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Yet another legal thread, Thief 1 and 2, the Enderal way


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#26 Springheel

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 09:48 PM

Yes, we worked with Square Enix after Thief4 was launched. Some of the people I talked to were very familiar with TDM.
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#27 stumpy

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 09:27 AM

the only legal way you could remake/reboot Thief 1 & 2 maps on TDM is if you were approached by Square Enix to do so, not the other way around eg make them then try to get permission.


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#28 demagogue

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 08:53 PM

The clever way I could see it done is if somebody created a converter script which took the Thief 2 .mis files and converted them to TDM .map files, either substituting best-fit textures and objects, or I guess the script could just outright import T2's textures and objects and other things (and convert anything it needs to), so T2 zip files go in and TDM .pk4 files come out, if we're pipedreaing this anyway. Then they could just release that script which people who own Thief 2 could run, pointing it to their T2 map folder, and get the TDM maps spit out. I think that'd be legal. Not only could we get Thief 1 and 2 maps out, but we could also get FM maps spit out as well, which would I think quintuple the number of FMs we have in one shot. Actually this is kind of an awesome idea, now that I think about it.

 

The thing is that Thief maps use negative geometry (cutting holes out) and TDM uses positive geometry (placing solid blocks). So it wouldn't be a simple conversion at all, and I'd think you'd have to cover a lot of exceptional situations that don't fit an easy mold that you might have to just hack in. But, like many things, we have the source for both games, so it's possible in principle. The question is just how much work someone is ready to put in to study up & do it.


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#29 nbohr1more

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 09:46 PM

The clever way I could see it done is if somebody created a converter script which took the Thief 2 .mis files and converted them to TDM .map files, either substituting best-fit textures and objects, or I guess the script could just outright import T2's textures and objects and other things (and convert anything it needs to), so T2 zip files go in and TDM .pk4 files come out, if we're pipedreaing this anyway. Then they could just release that script which people who own Thief 2 could run, pointing it to their T2 map folder, and get the TDM maps spit out. I think that'd be legal. Not only could we get Thief 1 and 2 maps out, but we could also get FM maps spit out as well, which would I think quintuple the number of FMs we have in one shot. Actually this is kind of an awesome idea, now that I think about it.

 

The thing is that Thief maps use negative geometry (cutting holes out) and TDM uses positive geometry (placing solid blocks). So it wouldn't be a simple conversion at all, and I'd think you'd have to cover a lot of exceptional situations that don't fit an easy mold that you might have to just hack in. But, like many things, we have the source for both games, so it's possible in principle. The question is just how much work someone is ready to put in to study up & do it.

 

Like this:

 

http://forums.thedar...version-sample/


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#30 demagogue

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 09:53 PM

As the Dark Engine was originally built for UU and modified from there, his script would be the obvious starting point, if he ever released the source for it.


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#31 nbohr1more

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 10:19 PM


 

if he ever released the source for it.

 

???

 

https://github.com/h...erworldExporter

 

Are we missing anything there?


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#32 Jetrell

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 11:37 PM

I'm a bit surprised to see this renewed interest in wanting to remake Thief because in my opinion TDM has long ago surpassed Thief. I still however have many fond memories of playing Thief and I still occasionally play it for nostalgic reasons but lets be honest, it's now a very old and clunky game with some really outdated technology. For me, Thief can only offer old memories.

 

In addition to Thief, I'm also a big Unreal fan so a few years ago I went about recreating some of the old maps with the newest Unreal Engine, it was fun and it was kinda cool to play those old maps with new technology but it got old and so I stopped remaking the maps because for me, it's was really just an exercise of accomplishment rather than an actual desire to play an old game.

 

If this idea is actually building momentum then I'd suggest just rebuilding the Thief maps with Dark Radiant and redo everything, i.e. instead of Garrett, name the protagonist something different, use our textures, our resources etc... and so on and so forth so there are no potential issues. If Square Enix doesn't like what we are doing, they will let us know and we'll stop.



#33 nbohr1more

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 12:26 AM

I always thought the best approach to answering this "commonly requested feature" would be to

hold regular contests where mappers made tribute FM's that resemble their favorite T1\T2 FM's without

violating copyright.

 

Then, after enough contests have been held, gather the best versions into a campaign pack and tweak it

be more cohesive.


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#34 wesp5

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 03:28 AM

As the Dark Engine was originally built for UU and modified from there, his script would be the obvious starting point, if he ever released the source for it.

This idea of yours sounds like the only reasonable way to do Thief1/2 to TDM conversion, in case it can actually be made to work :)!



#35 demagogue

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 03:59 AM

 

???

 

https://github.com/h...erworldExporter

 

Are we missing anything there?

 

Yes, I was too lazy to read through the relevant thread, so we were missing my initiative to even bother looking. ;)

 

Edit: For the record, I don't have any particular desire to see T1 or T2 remade. They're classics in their own right, and I wouldn't want to see them remade for the same reason I don't want to see classic black and white movies remade.

 

But I'm much more interested in seeing T2 FMs playable in TDM, and I like the idea of a script that could do that.

I have an idea TTLG FM makers might not be too happy about it though.


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#36 Judith

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 03:59 AM

I always thought the best approach to answering this "commonly requested feature" would be to

hold regular contests where mappers made tribute FM's that resemble their favorite T1\T2 FM's without

violating copyright.

 

Then, after enough contests have been held, gather the best versions into a campaign pack and tweak it

be more cohesive.

 

This.

 

IMO 1:1 import would be a waste of engine capabilities. Creative re-imagining would be much more interesting, as you can take a look at original design and learn from it. Tribute contests are a great idea.


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