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Texture normal map type: does TDM use opengl or Direct X?

That's a very valid question. Personally, I'd say the key is to watch what the otherwise-disengaged fringes of the community are saying. If first time posters or long time lurkers start coming out of the woodwork about well made new missions, praising them for their geometry and story but saying that innovative parts of the gameplay felt frustrating or off, that's probably the first sign that the innovations are starting to get out of hand. For a more concrete example, re-read the comments on Hazard Pay. As much as I and many others love that mission, it's clearly a case where the author strayed further than many people were comfortable with. It also points to the likely endgame if authors do take their customization too far. After getting the negative feedback, kingsal made adjustments, and now the mission is much more friendly towards player preferences that don't match the author's original vision. You don't need to restrict the mapmakers' tools to stop them from straying too far from the traditional formula. When people start speaking up, the authors will rein themselves in on their own.

Ok but, at what point do we consider *it* relevant, if ever?

Plan B in case Joebarnin cannot get it right with immobilizations. By Any Other Name: attached to this post are the Bow/Arrow, Blackjack and Shortsword scripts updated to 2.12. I didn't take any liberties. Blame snatcher if something isn't right. @joebarnin, @stgatilov z_byanyothername_212_scripts.pk4

I can only speak for myself, but I think option 2 would be fine. This will at least allow the missions to be playable on the dev builds for now, and we can see if any other issues pop up

Speaking of actions for the missions which only tweak zoom delay. What would you prefer right now? Mission broken on the latest dev build (as it is now), but working as intended in the latest release. Mission working as intended on the latest dev build, but working without customization on the latest release.

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Just wanted to say thank you for this install script. Made life easier! I'm new to the dark mod (but not to thief) and have just set up my steam deck to try it whilst away for a few days. Looking forward to some portable sneaking!

Alright, you convinced me that this convo is no longer productive. You clearly just wanna be right, so I'm not gonna spend anymore time on this. EDIT: I cant help myself, I'll end on a more thoughtful note. I care about all the feedback I get from all players, however there is a difference between "caring" and "catering to". Just because one person says they don't like X doesn't mean I'm gonna make a change, especially when other players do like X. I'll always hear out beta testers and players and listen to their feedback, but I am by no means beholden to that feedback

I could take your reply much more serious, if you wouldn't call my valid objections "whims". If you don't care about what players think about the decisions you made in your missions (or your "whims"?), then I wonder why you make your missions public at all. Seriously, I'd recommend to get off your high horse.

Any news about this project? I really like those changes for the Main Menu.

Well, I actually found that initial folder in the HiRes SVN repo. This is different from the TDM assets repo as it has a bunch of source files for textures, fonts, etc, but they aren't really game-ready assets. This is where I found the tga image files for the fonts I thought you were looking for. I haven't uploaded Tels folder yet, but I was thinking of uploading them in the HiRes SVN repo, just for the sake of backing it up

That may be where @Amadeus got the folder provided to me earlier. Tels folder has - - .xcf files, not found in earlier work - for any given system font (stone, carleton, manon) and size(particularly 24 or 48), often more .tga/.dds files than earlier work (which originally had just ASCII characters). (You can open the files in GIMP to be even more definitive).

In our SVN under the devel folder we have a font source sub-folder. Do we know for sure that these are all newer?

Arrows are a core part of TDM. They should be moved to C++ and have dedicated Cvars for both players and mission authors. Plan: 1) Implement Arrows in C++ ( evaluate changing some old defaults ) 2) Make associated Cvars "non-archived" 3) Mappers add mission.cfg to enforce their customizations 4) Players can alter mission.cfg to their preference Along the way, reduce some of the performance impact of the weapon script constantly invoking "raise torso" and other nonsense due to using scripts rather than C++ https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=4203

And it's your right to disagree, and it's your right to critique those FMs. But that doesn't mean authors need to make changes to cater to your whims if they don't want to.

I think you just gave me an idea for the next April Fool's FM

Well, I disagree. I play this game for the features it offers, not the features some mission author thinks he has to change to his personal favor. And, frankly, some of the more current missions offer too much of that "I think this works better" feature change. For example, the sounds some missions introduce add nothing over the original sounds, but are rather worse in my opinion.

Yeah, some (myself included) would argue that is a feature, not a bug. The important thing is that the FM plays "well" and is "enjoyable".

Again, that's not the point, The point is that the game is all over the place, if every mission feels and plays different. If you want that, hey. But, in my opinion, that's a big mistake.

Damn right, and I personally am going to keep making changes on how I want MY mission to be played and what I think is best for MY FMs. If that's not to your tastes, then I'm sorry these changes don't align with your preferences, but there are tons of other missions you can play that do. FM authors have ZERO obligation to provide uniform experiences that try to cater to everyone. Some people are going to enjoy these custom changes (I really loved the Resident Evil style saves, and I can't wait to see more missions with that) and other players are gonna be unhappy about them, and that's a crying shame, but it is not going to stop me from making FMs how I want them to be. Never once has a beta tester or a player brought up an issue about these kinds of choices I made for my FMs

Well that doesn't mean that everyone is d'accord with all the gameplay choices he made in these missions, does it? All I can say is that I never got the impression here or elsewhere that there are issues with the weapon behavior in TDM. Maybe apart from the blackjacking, which has been a controversial topic in the past. I can only repeat myself in arguing that the big problem is the uniformity of essential gameplay elements. The game just doesn't feel coherent, if every FM author changes important gameplay dynamics, and it makes it difficult and frustrating, not just for beginners.

Gosh you're right. As a result it only managed to snag spot #10 in terms of highest user rated TDM missions on thiefguild. Kingsal could make a mission where you crawl around like a baby in moon gravity and I might be right there with you saying it was a bad idea. It'd still be his mission so his choice.

Yep, moved on to greener pastures. BTW, what I quoted above from him will soon be untrue for Stone 24pt due to my upcoming bitmap surgery. Actually, the values in the current stone .dat file are already misaligned with what any archival font patcher script would produce, due to 2.12 tweaks with q3font & refont. I'll add a note to the wiki about this (explaining it better than here).

I hope you didn't forget the (controversial) discussion about his implementation of a Resident Evil style save room in Hazard Pay. Or the change to the arrows, which one head shot zombies. These changes are anything but commonly accepted and wanted. Rather something he implemented, because he thought it was a good idea. Which is fair enough, but, it unfortunately leads to the lack of uniformity that I was talking about, when every FM author thinks he has to reinvent the wheel. Especially new players can't get used to how the game, weapons and enemies behave, if the behavior is different in every FM.